STATE has been given 1.2 million to close all dispensaries !

MichiganMedGrower said:

Here's a viewpoint for the dispensary interest.

I started growing personal meds 4 years ago after a life long history of being around good pot.

because the dispensaries near me offered low potency barn smelling weed that after a short while had me coughing up black stuff.

And it offered no medical benefits and cost more than double what I had ever paid before.


And a local meth dealer and a local family of pot dealers both got shut down for running their criminal operations and I have not been to one since.

Mold is a severe allergy causing substance to me and Mrs. MMG. Cash croppers will not destroy bad product like I would. They will continue to sell it. Let's not even start about the fuckin pesticides and pgr's.

Click to expand...

do you think the dispensary had anything to do with the local family of pot dealers getting shut down?
good to hear you're not hangin' round the meth dealer anymore

chemphlegm said:

do you think the dispensary had anything to do with the local family of pot dealers getting shut down?
good to hear you're not hangin' round the meth dealer anymore

Click to expand...

Lol. I am actually off the recreational chemicals for just about 20 years now.

And the dispensary is where they sold (and bought from everyone with even marginal quality) to anyone apparently. Card or no card. They are a nice family. Bad judgement but nice. They were sure that the law would eventually see it their way. And until then they were helping legal weed.

I actually felt more secure about my stash before the law "allowed" it. No one had any idea about weed. We just all "knew".

Maybe I should move south and be a "cash cropper" myself?

Lol.

chemphlegm said:

like a scheister attorney man, you sleep with dogs you wake with fleas.

stop the rhetoric and tell us how to sell to more than five patients when the law clearly says only five, then tell us how to sell weed to a dispensary when the law says sales to only those with your card. c'mon, circle speak around this point once again... and you have lost all credit here pal. answer the question clearly and specifically if you care.

law say five patients- you say five hundred
you suggest a caregiver can legally sell to five hundred patients despite our law. this is a disservice to our community.
I appreciate your efforts. but when you redirect and dance around the only real issue here you lose big time, you lose support, signatures, and respect.

just answer the question aye? FIVE PATIENTS ONLY right? does the law say five patients only?

Click to expand...

Truth is not RHETORIC.

STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS>
SALES ARE NOT ILLEGAL IN THE PHC.
You are not CHARGED WITH SELLING.
YOu are charged with Manufacturing with Intent to Deliver. That is not "SALES"

Stop listening to the Attorneys who make 60% of their repeat business being Cannabis users...

Don't Overthink it.

If it is NOT EXPRESSLY DENIED< it is ESPRESSLY LEGAL and LAWFUL! PERIOD.

END OF BOOK.

The 1st Amendment does not SAY You have the right of FREE SPEECH!

It says the GOVERNMENT CAN NOT STOP YOU FROM SPEAKING, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY DISLIKE IT!

MichiganMedGrower said:

Yes I get your point. But no matter how you or the lawyers or even judges interpret the words they are going to eliminate who they want and set up their own profit center. With who they want.

And it was outlined clearly at the beginning of the year.

honestly I always thought it was too soon to have store fronts. This ain't California. And look how up and down their first 10 years was. To put it nicely.

Click to expand...

Properly argued by Ourselves, not the Attorns, We dont need to worry about them.

Don't you realize the only people that have been successful at using the MMM Act Defences are people that have DEFENDED THEMSELVES?

The more you know.

Timmahh said:

Properly argued by Ourselves, not the Attorns, We dont need to worry about them.

Don't you realize the only people that have been successful at using the MMM Act Defences are people that have DEFENDED THEMSELVES?

The more you know.

Click to expand...

Until the laws and defenses are clear at the federal level I will assume I will be charged as a drug dealer.

And either way any patients or growers I know or me want anything to do with dispensaries and lawyers.

Very low success rate arguing a case in court without legal representation overall.

Plus that fantasy passed for me already. Dispensary family busted. I would not let them copy my card and they took overage anyway.

Jail for them. Freedom for me. I'm staying underground where I am safe.

And I sure will not go to jail willingly hoping my silly weed card will save me.

I have no faith or trust in either side of this issue.

It's the cash that attracts trouble. Not plants.

Timmahh said:

If it is NOT EXPRESSLY DENIED< it is ESPRESSLY LEGAL and LAWFUL! PERIOD.

END OF BOOK.

Click to expand...

The Act expressly denies that growing/selling for/to more than your five patients that have been approved by the state and designated with a card- is a legal act-

The state will not issue the permit to sell to more than five patients at one time to any caregiver. Would be nice to change that of course
but thats got nothing to do with a dispensary imo nor will I encourage any homegrower/provider to support any movement that allows dispensaries, the ones that openly testify against us, and cooperate with authorities in our arrests.
I understand why you dont/wont address this denial by the Act, and unfortunately that is the end of your story for me.
free the weed, free the people, please keep up the good fight.

peace

@chemphlegm Do you believe we actually have a medical marijuana law or simply a narrow exception to the criminal controlled substance laws as specifically granted by LARA?

TheMan13 said:

@chemphlegm

Do you believe:
1)we actually have a medical marijuana law or

2)simply a narrow exception to the criminal controlled substance laws (public health code- chemphlegm) as specifically granted by LARA?

Click to expand...

2

chemphlegm said:

2

Click to expand...

You believe that regardless of the clarity of it's very title (The Michigan Medical Marihuana Act), the fact that voters lawfully enacted the law in that clear spirit and that no such arbitrary equivocation exists in the letter of the law clearly providing criminal immunity under the law (MMMA Section 8 )?

I just don't get how you can honestly believe that somehow winning legal equivocation arguments by parsing words in a clearly philosophically and economically conflicted court of law against bottom of their class ex DUI lawyers turned NORML lawyers that have been making a mint off this game for the past decade can trump reality.

In reality there are medicinal uses for marijuana and it in fact is not a dangerous substance compared to even alcohol and tobacco. The People of Michigan, as have a majority of the states of this Union have affirmed that fact and lawfully codified it into law. How with any integrity has our "justice system" and court of law ever persecuted medicinal marijuana use criminally under the CSA/Drug War, no less a state licensed medical marijuana patient/caregiver today



IMHO this is the civil rights question of our time. Take a look back at the slavery question in our history, how and why it remained "legal" under our "justice system" and what actions of the People were necessary to clean up that mess (aka lack of integrity by elitists). With above the law judges now directing tanks and military assault teams to do their bidding today without accountability, sadly it won't be as easy this time around ...

TheMan13 said:

You believe that regardless of the clarity of it's very title (The Michigan Medical Marihuana Act), the fact that voters lawfully enacted the law in that clear spirit and that no such arbitrary equivocation exists in the letter of the law clearly providing criminal immunity under the law (MMMA Section 8 )?

I just don't get how you can honestly believe that somehow winning legal equivocation arguments by parsing words in a clearly philosophically and economically conflicted court of law against bottom of their class ex DUI lawyers turned NORML lawyers that have been making a mint off this game for the past decade can trump reality.

In reality there are medicinal uses for marijuana and it in fact is not a dangerous substance compared to even alcohol and tobacco. The People of Michigan, as have a majority of the states of this Union have affirmed that fact and lawfully codified it into law. How with any integrity has our "justice system" and court of law ever persecuted medicinal marijuana use criminally under the CSA/Drug War, no less a state licensed medical marijuana patient/caregiver today

IMHO this is the civil rights question of our time. Take a look back at the slavery question in our history, how and why it remained "legal" under our "justice system" and what actions of the People were necessary to clean up that mess (aka lack of integrity by elitists). With above the law judges now directing tanks and military assault teams to do their bidding today without accountability, sadly it won't be as easy this time around ...

Click to expand...

have no misunderstandings. I want much the same. however can you find the section in this Act that says selling to five people at one time is permitted, while selling to more than five is not?
stay focused for clarity, one point at a time please, that one first, may as well

Exactly what crime is committed by a medicinal caregiver helping a sixth or undocumented medicinal patient? Exactly what crime is committed when a plant produces more than the arbitrary "weight limit"? Exactly what crimes are committed when a caregiver or patient simply allow their cards to expire or maybe never even apply for them in just fear of documenting a federal crime?

Do you not see a problem with these arbitrary statutory LARA requirements you keep quoting or "violations" of such being equivocated into felony level crimes within our criminal courts and regardless that those crimes literally require there to be no medical use 4 decades ago? It should piss you off that our "justice system" thumbs their noses at MMMA with these equivocations, not defending their miscarriage of justice by quoting their conflicted "precedents". Even in 1978 your doctors note is all you needed to not be considered a felon "under the law" ...

PUBLIC HEALTH CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 368 of 1978

333.7403 Knowingly or intentionally possessing controlled substance, controlled substance analogue, or prescription form; violations; penalties; individuals exempt from violation; notification of parent, guardian, or custodian of minor; other criminal charges; discharge from probation; definitions.

Sec. 7403.

(1) A person shall not knowingly or intentionally possess a controlled substance, a controlled substance analogue, or a prescription form unless the controlled substance, controlled substance analogue, or prescription form was obtained directly from, or pursuant to, a valid prescription or order of a practitioner while acting in the course of the practitioner's professional practice, or except as otherwise authorized by this article.

... http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2h1cjerhs4mcrpxp1zjh3nhb))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-333-7403

Know of any legitimate LARA licensed patients and/or caregivers who have been gamed into a guilty plea of simple possession in a Michigan court over this past decade (MMMA era)? How is that even plausible under the law (333.7403)

I do not personally see anything wrong with anyone using cannabis carded or not, so lets be clear. this isnt about what I want, this is about what we currently have. I wont usher in the corporate dope devils just for the taste of some pseudo freedoms.

I am not discussing what is wrong or right, this isnt about morals its about the law, and if current law allows for a carded person to sell to only five patients or to 500 patients a day, thats it. what does the current law say of this specific subject, thats the hurdle being discussed here, not morals, or what we dream of right?

I honestly know nobody who has been arrested since the Act was passed while following the rules of the current Act. I do know some who were selling outside of their registry and were arrested for it. I know one person who was raided, destroyed robbed but not arrested, specifically selling to the local dispensary that was raided days before was mentioned. he currently grows again successfully sans the outside of registry sales.

wanna change the world? I do. wanna free the weed and marijuana prisoners? me too. dont misunderstand whats being discussed in this thread.

chemphlegm said:

I do not personally see anything wrong with anyone using cannabis carded or not, so lets be clear. this isnt about what I want, this is about what we currently have. I wont usher in the corporate dope devils just for the taste of some pseudo freedoms.

I am not discussing what is wrong or right, this isnt about morals its about the law, and if current law allows for a carded person to sell to only five patients or to 500 patients a day, thats it. what does the current law say of this specific subject, thats the hurdle being discussed here, not morals, or what we dream of right?

I honestly know nobody who has been arrested since the Act was passed while following the rules of the current Act. I do know some who were selling outside of their registry and were arrested for it. I know one person who was raided, destroyed robbed but not arrested, specifically selling to the local dispensary that was raided days before was mentioned. he currently grows again successfully sans the outside of registry sales.

wanna change the world? I do. wanna free the weed and marijuana prisoners? me too. dont misunderstand whats being discussed in this thread.

Click to expand...

That's exactly right. When you apply for a med card it very explicitly states how many patients you can register, how many plants you can grow, how much weight you can have, etc. It's wishful thinking to beileve that you can transfer weed to hundreds of people operating within the scope of the law. I don't like it either, but what I like/want doesn't matter.

I don't care if someone wants to grow 1,000 plants. Good for them, and I wish no ill will towards them. What bothers me is when someone uses the med program as a shield for their operation. That paints all of us in a bad light, and potentially ruins things for legitimately sick folks who rely on this medicine. Do your thing, but don't hide behind a law that was never intended to protect cash croppers.

st0wandgrow said:

That's exactly right. When you apply for a med card it very explicitly states how many patients you can register, how many plants you can grow, how much weight you can have, etc. It's wishful thinking to beileve that you can transfer weed to hundreds of people operating within the scope of the law. I don't like it either, but what I like/want doesn't matter.

I don't care if someone wants to grow 1,000 plants. Good for them, and I wish no ill will towards them. What bothers me is when someone uses the med program as a shield for their operation. That paints all of us in a bad light, and potentially ruins things for legitimately sick folks who rely on this medicine. Do your thing, but don't hide behind a law that was never intended to protect cash croppers.

Click to expand...

Well put. Clear and simple truth.

chemphlegm said:

I do not personally see anything wrong with anyone using cannabis carded or not, so lets be clear. this isnt about what I want, this is about what we currently have. I wont usher in the corporate dope devils just for the taste of some pseudo freedoms.

I am not discussing what is wrong or right, this isnt about morals its about the law, and if current law allows for a carded person to sell to only five patients or to 500 patients a day, thats it. what does the current law say of this specific subject, thats the hurdle being discussed here, not morals, or what we dream of right?

I honestly know nobody who has been arrested since the Act was passed while following the rules of the current Act. I do know some who were selling outside of their registry and were arrested for it. I know one person who was raided, destroyed robbed but not arrested, specifically selling to the local dispensary that was raided days before was mentioned. he currently grows again successfully sans the outside of registry sales.

wanna change the world? I do. wanna free the weed and marijuana prisoners? me too. dont misunderstand whats being discussed in this thread.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to promote or defend dispensaries or their business models here, I'm simply trying to defend our medicinal marijuana law from those who aim to attack and discredit it into a narrow criminal exception. I'm just asking that you reconsider this legal equivocation game (aka lawfare) in general as it pertains to and is being sold by our "justice system" and most importantly the threat such poses to each and every patient/caregiver.

For example, I don't believe it is lawful to violently raid a patient/caregiver's home at 4AM based simply on the smell of marijuana or "plant material" found in their garbage. I believe in the face of MMMA a Michigan judge that signs such a warrant violates not only the patient/caregiver's civil rights, but their 4th Amendment Constitutional rights among others. Yet somehow Michigan precedent (People v Brown) would disagree with me based simply on their "fact" that a narcotics task force agent acts in "good faith" when providing such "probable cause" a felony is being committed to justify the warrant regardless of all involved completely disregarding MMMA.

I guess my point in general is that it's a pretty slippery slope you are on defending our criminal courts nullification of MMMA through equivocation. Considering that you seem pretty bright, I hope that at least some of this conversion stoked some mental dissonance in your beliefs. IMHO a whole lot coming out of our courts these days is blindly based on faith in the 1% elitist institution, not the rule of law and that cannot go on forever (I hope) ...

keep in mind I do not defend our Act or its ridiculous rules. I only aim to inform patients that breaking these rules will do nothing to change them and will likely result in a costly embarrassing raid that is justified using said rules.
dispensaries were never allowed in the rules because selling to more than 5 patients is a violation of those rules.
people growing for love are not hassled like people growing for money. should it be different? could it be? can we convince everyone the rules are wrong and we should act any way we wish so we can change the rules? I dont have time to go to jail for a cause.
many marijuana users have tried, sitting in jail for pot while their family members are enjoying vast gardens within state rules.....noting changed for those jailed. their civil disobedience resulted in father less children is all.

follow the written rules until they are changed. Eliminate the money growers and get back to the grass root growers and all will be fine. I'll gather sigs like all get out. but you wanna make cash? wanna be part of the dope slinging on the corner you'll never get my vote. that industry made it very clear they do not support the medical rules, do not support patients, do not support poison free weed, do not support caregivers either.
Fuck the dispensary lobby and all those riding on their pre rolls.

Sorry but I ran the DA out of Wexford county for the same thought process that's being spread. "Qualified Patient" "qualified Caregiver" nothing to do with who's on your cards. Those morons got you believing it tho. The only other thing is, the law doesn't give protection for dispensaries. Wish people would take the time and read out law not listen to law enforcement who will tell you anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk