The far red thread

cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
Icemud420 said:
Far red light is associated with stretch, but a 3:1 ratio is still 3x as much red:far red as the sun which is around 1.2:1 ratio. Plants use Far Red for positioning to not only sense other plants proximity but also under canopy where shade avoidance syndrome can occur. You probably didn't see stretch because it wasn't enough far red... In a previous grow I used the Budmaster Emerson for 1 hour during mid day (80w of far red vs about 500w of mixed spectrum) and saw a huge increase in stretch, so I stopped using the far red during the daylight period..

Using it on this last grow only for 15 minutes did not increase my stretch, so its probably a matter of total amount of far red light during a day period, similar to how we judge plant lighting like DLI... broken down into PPFD per hour.

There definitely is proven research though that shows that the lower the ratio of Red to Far Red, the more stretch will result, so maybe you have a good amount of far red, but not to much where it influences the shade avoidance effect.
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I definitely think you are right.

I've done a fair bit of research into the Emerson Effect and the photosystems I & II. I based the ratio of light I chose off the Mccree Action Spectrum as opposed to the solar spectrum. This is why I chose a 3:1 Red:FR ratio.

I don't care about extra stretch and I'm glad I didn't get any. My goal with adding Red/FR was to try to elicit the Emerson Effect and increase photosynthetic efficiency. Not to elicit a shade avoidance response. I was just surprised not to see any stretch above and beyond what I normally see. I just figured I would have noticed something, the way everybody talks about seeing plants stretch 2-3x what they are used to by adding a few watts of 730nm per day.
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
PSUAGRO. said:
The gromau puck is a simple, affordable solution for the masses...............Is it the best way to implement FR? NO. spread out is better of course== which would increase the BOM

not many ^CHEAP^ Pfr options , halogen floods, incandescent bulbs............lol. Amazon has some e27 730nm led bulbs(powerpar) , doubt the spd accuracy .

top bin O$ram is for growers who want the "best" fr emitter :P, ledengin where pretty good back in the day on the indagro pontoons......started the whole led "flower initiator"/cannabis thing(splifferous?), maybe
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Yeah, I think splifferous was the first to post here about flower initiators with a outdoor blue dream if I remember right, think is was before the pontoons but wouldn't swear to it.
 
Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
@KonopCh

Reasonable question. I like to get a measure of stretch that matches my space and lighting. It seems that a very compact plant will sacrifice yield because their isnt sufficient bud sites available. The buds may grow large but a well trained plant that has been grown to maximize the productivity of the space will better succeed.
 
Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
Folks I'm thinking that 660nm additions might be useful to my rig. Does it seem like a good idea to add maybe 50w of 660nm to a setup that uses 4 x cxb3590, 72v, 3500k @ ,7mA and 4 x v29 (old version) 4k @2.1mA. This is in a 2 x 4' reflective space.

I have voltage and heatsink space on both of the cxb satellites. Each one consists of 2 of the cxbs on a HLG120H C700A.

does it have to be monos? Are good quality 660 cobs available?

@PurpleBuz
one advantage of the 72V version is that I can run monos at a safe 700ma without having to parallel the monos and get similar performance as a 36V version running at 1400 ma. great for filling out the Vf of the driver.

Is this mono still legit? http://www.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-Deep-Red-3-Watt-LEDs--RARE-Version_p_194.html
 
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P

Photon Flinger

Well-Known Member
If you can put aside your chinese bias you can find a vendor that will put a cob together with the wavelengths you want. For example you could have a bunch of 660, 730 (IR), 385 (UVA), 450nm, etc in whatever combination you want. Run them low powered for better efficiency and remember that you are using them for the secondary effects and not as a primary light source.
 
Icemud420

Icemud420

Well-Known Member
So I wanted to add some data to the Far Red, used as a flower trigger 15 minutes after lights out.

I used my ogiesel strain, which I have had for 4 years to compare harvest times. I have run the ogiesel 6 other times, in the same grow tent, very similar soil and nutrient recipes, and using a combination of lights from HID to LED.

Here are the harvest times and lights used for my Ogiesel strain:


Current Grow: BudMaster HPS LED: 500w, Harvested day 55 (WITH FAR RED)

Advanced LED XTE 300s 2x:, 500w, harvest at day 72 ,

I-gro (LED): 360w, harvested at day 66

400w CMH + 600w HPS 1000w harvest at day 67,

Advanced LED XTE (3x) 750w, harvest at day 65,

Mars Hydro 400 (x3), 540w, harvest at day 67

Budmaster God 340w, Harvest at day 67

Average OGiesel Harvest date (without Far Red flower induction) = 67 days (and 1/3) lol


So based on this data, even though not an accurate side by side, it does show that over the last 4 years, 67 days was common for my Ogiesel under normal lighting (without far red flower triggering) as all my harvests were right around that data.

Using the Far Red light this grow, I harvested on day 55 flowering, with swollen calyxes, brown shriveled pistils, and cloudy trichomes. (as I normally harvest).

Now even though it's only 1 grow with far red light so far, it is very impressive that it knocked 12 days off the cycle for flowering without any visual loss of weight. (still drying it before I confirm weight).

So even though not a lab controlled study by any means, the data does show quite a difference and I hope to replicate it again in future grows with a shorter flowering time so that I helps enforce the savings in time I saw...
 
Heil Tweetler

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
Photon Flinger said:
If you can put aside your chinese bias you can find a vendor that will put a cob together with the wavelengths you want. For example you could have a bunch of 660, 730 (IR), 385 (UVA), 450nm, etc in whatever combination you want. Run them low powered for better efficiency and remember that you are using them for the secondary effects and not as a primary light source.
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Thanks man, (i think you were responding to my question).

I'm OK with Chinese.

I am currently utilizing a 730nm bar and I think i'm covered on blue with the 4k V29 so maybe i could use a cob that is 600-700. I was hoping to drive it with the excess voltage on my satellite. What vendor are you thinking? I'm up for testing out a custom cob.

My focus would be on quality improvement. My set-up, as is, produces beyond my expectations..
 
randydj

randydj

Well-Known Member
Dawg:

I am running my first full grow on my Citizen 1212 3500k 90cri DIY. this is ~Day 42:
DSC00424.JPG

From left 2 - Fast Buds Green Crack Auto, middle front Zambeza Blueberry Auto, middle back Fast Buds Girl Scout Cookies Auto (Slow to start sativa dominant), right rear Fast Buds Girl Scout Cookies Auto (fast indica dominant) right front Cream of the Crop Amphetamine (planted two weeks after the rest to replace a Zambeza Blueberry that did not make it.) I have 440W of the Cities and 225W of chinese LEDS.

I have 6 more 1212s but have not finished building them out. I found a new ChxxXed light I want but cannot afford but I have been holding off spending money finishing the 1212s dreaming of the latter.
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
It's an honest question man. Why not hold a tape measure up to show everybody just how much they stretched from the first pic?

Not trying to be a dick at all, but how is everybody supposed to get a perspective on what you are trying to show without a frame of reference?

How much did they grow in 24 hours? How fast were they growing per day before you added FR light?

These are all things that I personally would be curious about.

I do really appreciate all your input Cap'n, just trying to keep Data and Postulation separate on this particular thread. Hope you don't take this the wrong way.:joint:
@captainmorgan
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
randydj said:
Dawg:

I am running my first full grow on my Citizen 1212 3500k 90cri DIY. this is ~Day 42:
View attachment 3932880

From left 2 - Fast Buds Green Crack Auto, middle front Zambeza Blueberry Auto, middle back Fast Buds Girl Scout Cookies Auto (Slow to start sativa dominant), right rear Fast Buds Girl Scout Cookies Auto (fast indica dominant) right front Cream of the Crop Amphetamine (planted two weeks after the rest to replace a Zambeza Blueberry that did not make it.) I have 440W of the Cities and 225W of chinese LEDS.

I have 6 more 1212s but have not finished building them out. I found a new ChxxXed light I want but cannot afford but I have been holding off spending money finishing the 1212s dreaming of the latter.
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Have You Grown Your Auto's With Anything Besides The Citi's 1212 3500k 90 Cri? :weed:
 
randydj

randydj

Well-Known Member
The Dawg said:
Have You Grown Your Auto's With Anything Besides The Citi's 1212 3500k 90 Cri? :weed:
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Nope, except for the two chinese LEDs and the DWC with Dyna-Gro, Hydroguard and Mammoth P everything is new. New Grow Room, New DIY COBs, and the first Autos ever.

I have always used CO2 rightly or wrongly - LOL. Back in the 70s I had a grow room that I ran into; cranked wide open two 100# tanks, held my breath as I counted to 20, closed the valves and ran out - Hahahahaha.
I grew some pretty good sensimilla that way. No idea what PPMs might have been. I have learned a lot about using CO2 since then.

So nothing to compare to other than these seem to be doing well!
 
P

Photon Flinger

Well-Known Member
randydj said:
Nope, except for the two chinese LEDs and the DWC with Dyna-Gro, Hydroguard and Mammoth P everything is new. New Grow Room, New DIY COBs, and the first Autos ever.

I have always used CO2 rightly or wrongly - LOL. Back in the 70s I had a grow room that I ran into; cranked wide open two 100# tanks, held my breath as I counted to 20, closed the valves and ran out - Hahahahaha.
I grew some pretty good sensimilla that way. No idea what PPMs might have been. I have learned a lot about using CO2 since then.

So nothing to compare to other than these seem to be doing well!
Click to expand...

Those tough boxes are great - I use them for sips.

You can gut the chinese fixtures and put cobs in them. Work just fine.
 
randydj

randydj

Well-Known Member
Photon:

You may be surprised to hear that I have had some pretty darn successful grows with those "Chinese LEDs" nearly 1G/Watt.Here is the Moby Dick CBD I grew with them!


DSC00172.JPG DSC00178.JPG
 
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