The ULTIMATE Flowering Spectrum

SnotBoogie said:

You cannot get UV LEDs yet (for less than like 3 grand)

I think Spheda actually has a thread about UVB supplement, in which it was put forward that there is only one specific type of t5ho uvb which is competitive. I'll try and find it if theres interest?

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Arcadia and Hagen (relatively new versions of reptisun) make T5 HO UVB/UVA blubs.

apomixis said:

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love it!!!!!!!!!!!

chazbolin said:

Trichome production is enhanced by UVb and UV-B as the plant generates more trichomes. Under macro imaging you can see the difference in the trichomes as those grown under lamps where there is a UV-B presence, the trichomes are cut with hard sharp edges as compared to when grown under predominantly red spectrum's where there are fewer trichomes and they are kind of a lazy globular shape.

As you probably already know trichomes are the plants way of protecting the buds from these destructive wavelengths as they act as prisms to deflect the UV-B from harming the flower site. This setup misses those spectrum's. Have you given any thought to adding a metal halide or some UV-B LED's to mimic this effect?

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I do have a spot for some Reptile T5 from ARCADIA on each wall, I've used them before and I have seen the difference they make. Sure I can put them in there, but I've found that all deep blue wavelengths increase trichome production and that UVb is more harmful to the plants than just UVa or INDIGO would be. Therefore the 410nm blue in the LED should be enough to do the job. I can do a side by side comparison with and without the UVb and see if the 410nm is enough or if the ARCADIA reptile T5s that have UVb does something more.........

I have a feeling the UVb is going to be the better choice, BUT there are many experienced growers out there that have already done this experiment and found that ALL DEEP BLUE WAVELENGTHS INCREASE TRICH PRODUCTION on the buds. Guess I will have to see for myself!

Sir.Ganga said:

The Magenta series light has a little more UV-B.

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No, absolutely untrue! The Magenta series has 4 wavelengths in their h350 roughly 420, 455, 630, 660 nothing more! They even state on their website that it's a quad-band light spectrum and I have already run the SA on the Magenta to confirm. The deep purple has 5 bands which are 410, 440, 460, 630, 660 roughly. Supposedly they pull the 410 in the Magenta to help fuel the flowering process. They say 410nm inhibits the flowering process or something which I tend to somewhat agree with only because if you look at the SA for FALL Sunlight it has very little blue wavelengths less than 440nm.

I'm not trying to call you out on the UVb in the Kessils, just want to make sure that you and everyone else knows that there is ZERO UV in the Kessil LEDs. But again, there are many growers that believe that all you need is Deep Blue to increase Trich production and not specifically UVb. So in that case, the Deep Purple Kessils would be the better Trich developer which is what I'm using in there. Well just have to experiment!

Fonzarelli said:

I can do a side by side comparison with and without the UVb and see if the 410nm is enough or if the ARCADIA reptile T5s that have UVb does something more.........

Guess I will have to see for myself!

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Please do if you can.

if UVA plus actinics is good enough I would rather run that than a lot of UVB.

I think UVb is over-rated. There is this theory that since UVb can penetrate the Trichome "bubble" it somehow hits a receptor and allows the trichome to activate THC and terpene production to the trichome head. I saw a diagram of this process somewhere, but it's still only a theory. All I've gotten from my UVb lamps is crispy leaves that turn purple. I tend to go along with the "all blue wavelengths increase trichs." Well see.............

I have some photos of this setup in the sister thread that I had posted in the advanced grow section, but I think it got moved to the LED section or something. There are a few extra photos there for you guys to check out if you are interested. Here it is:

https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/638147-ultimate-flowering-spectrum-hps-led.html#post8882075

I'm not sure if it matters or not, but it would be nice to stick to this thread or the other thread so it doesn't get confusing. The only reason I made both is because I had one in the Advanced Growing section and one in the LED lighting section to get more of a response. I wish there was a way a Mod could combine them.

In my experience with reptile UVB fluoros, they cause the trichs to turn amber earlier. I prefer bright trichs so I scrapped the UVB.

I agree that deep blue is the way to go. Since we have 440nm deep blue LEDs that are 60% efficient available to us, I think those results will be hard to beat with any violet or uva.

SupraSPL said:

In my experience with reptile UVB fluoros, they cause the trichs to turn amber earlier. I prefer bright trichs so I scrapped the UVB.

I agree that deep blue is the way to go. Since we have 440nm deep blue LEDs that are 60% efficient available to us, I think those results will be hard to beat with any violet or uva.

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Agreed, one way you can look at this is that UVb causes senescence to happen earlier and ripen the buds faster. UVb is known to damage plants for the most part. The only way I can argue yay or nay is just the fact I've tried both and I've had better results WITHOUT additional UVb. I don't think people realize that the Sun's spectrum has very very little UVb in proportion to all the other wavelengths and I think that it's very easy to "cook" your plants with these reptile basking lights. It's not like our plants are "going on vacation soon" and need to get "pre-tanned" at the tanning salon or something. LOL

I've had GREAT success by using a 175w or a 250w 10,000K MH to get all the Trichs I need in the last few weeks of flower. The specific lamp I think is the best for this is the Hamilton Technology TRUE 10K MH. Here is what the SA looks like for this MH lamp.


Needless to say these lamps have A LOT of blue peaks in them including UVa 365nm and they really push the trich production in your buds. They are of the highest quality lamps on the market. I have zero flicker on startup combined with a Galaxy E-Ballast. I hate sounding like a salesman, but I really like these lamps especially in combination with h150 reds and the HPS lamp. They are of real quality and the best on the market compared to shit SunPulse.

And just so everyone knows, there really isn't any UVb in MH. And if there is it's such a small amount it doesn't do anything. The glass shroud filters it out so that your eyes don't get damaged. When they talk about UV in MH lamps they are talking about 365nm and up. The lamp makers know this and avoid UVb on purpose. They do make UVb MH lights and they have "CAUTION" written all over the packaging.

You have to be careful with over using blue. You still want more red than blue. If too much blue, yield will suffer and take a couple weeks longer to finish and longer to start flowering. They will be frosty more. Imo 660 with 730 and 760 produces more trich's than blue. That was my experience when we were all still doing par t5 and my first led. the only times I got hash tips was under heavy 660.

If you want TRUE UVb you would use this. Although I think it would be crazy to use them and also very dangerous to your skin and eyes.

http://www.heliositalquartz.com/ultraviolet_lamp_high_pressure_272.html

Even your standard 10K MH light that growers recommend for the last couple weeks do not have UVb in them, just UVa 365nm and higher.

Your standard 10K MH SA


As stated before, 365nm and higher only. There is a HUGE misconception going on in the cannabis growing industry that UVb is what makes buds better when using the 10K MH. It's simply a misunderstanding.

I don't want this thread to get off-track in here. Here is a before photo(Sour D) of what my spectrum can do. In 2 months I will show the "after" photo of the same plant grown under the spectrum this thread is all about. 1000w HPS + 410nm/440/460/630/660nm (2 x h350 deep purple and 4 x h150 red). I love this spectrum color!


And just for comparison here's my HPS only grow of a different strain to show the obvious color difference. HPS alone is just plain yuk!

hyroot said:

You have to be careful with over using blue. You still want more red than blue. If too much blue, yield will suffer and take a couple weeks longer to finish and longer to start flowering. They will be frosty more. Imo 660 with 730 and 760 produces more trigger than blue. That was my experience when we were all still doing par t5 and my first led. the only times I got hash tips was under heavy 660.

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That's why I only use a 175w or 250w 10K combined with the 1000w HPS. You are definitely right that you still want the red/deep red/far red to continue the actual bud/trich production and NOT just blue.

If you use your MH for "flower-set" you will get shorter inter-node spacing and MANY more bud sites. Therefore when switching to 12/12 DO NOT go right into using HPS, but continue using your MH to utilize the blue light in there. This will avoid stretch and you will get many more bud sites not to mention a higher quality flower-set and overall plant health/vigor.

When I use to switch to HPS right at 12/12 my plants would get shocked, the leaves would turn yellow and there would be an overall unhealthy plant appearance not to mention a wasteful stretch causing the stems to be weak and not allow the buds to get ample support for the weight.

Can you do a photo of your ultimate flowering spectra with the hps turned off?

I can see the differences your talking about (yellow green versus a fuller orangy with red overtones), but I'd like to see the overall blue\red balance without the hps overtaking everything ?

pretty please?

PurpleBuz said:

Can you do a photo of your ultimate flowering spectra with the hps turned off?

I can see the differences your talking about (yellow green versus a fuller orangy with red overtones), but I'd like to see the overall blue\red balance without the hps overtaking everything ?

pretty please?

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Yeah sure, keep in mind I'm still missing one of the h350 deep purples in the back so it would have a touch more blue in the rear when I put it in there.
There is more blue overall in this setup, than the Magenta spots have be themselves and that's why I think the 1000w HPS is the perfect match for this setup.

cool thanks that helps a lot. Looks like predominantly deep reds, with the blues wideing and enriching the spectrum. so hard to tell with cameras cause of different white balance scales.

ffonzarelli
Knna was always advising Hps users to supplement with monochromatic royal blue, back in the days there was this user who listened and I saw some pics and I saw monsters covered in snow! His smoke report was interesting too, he was a long time grower and he was genuinely amazed. Knna also said some 660's too would benefit

jubiare said:

ffonzarelli
Knna was always advising Hps users to supplement with monochromatic royal blue, back in the days there was this user who listened and I saw some pics and I saw monsters covered in snow! His smoke report was interesting too, he was a long time grower and he was genuinely amazed. Knna also said some 660's too would benefit

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Sounds like that's right along the same lines as this. The deep purple LEDs are mainly 440-460nm blue with a touch of 410nm which is really going to be quite insignificant. Then they are mostly 630-660nm so it should be a good show.

My avatar was grown from start to finish with HPS only. Plant doesn't care and will produce well if all other factors are in balance. I too get caught up in the spectrum hype.

UB