Urgent (Save your hydro store)

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
I know we all go at it on here but this is urgent, you guys have until tomorrow to get this template to your local hydro store, it needs to be submitted to the Gov by tomorrow, if not you may lose your local hydro store due to the Cannabis act.
Hippy all BS aside, get this to brite lite and indoor farmer asap, if you guys truly want to fight LP's this is your chance to make an impact, anyone else have a hydro store in your area get this to them today, if you can not get to them today you need to get it to them by tomorrow, you can probably email them and call them to let them know it is in there email.

The upcoming legalization of recreational cannabis offers our industry many opportunities. As the federal government races to its July 2018/Summer deadline to have laws in place, it is also presenting risks to our collective business. Currently, the government is proposing a definition of 'cannabis accessories' which will mean that products such as fertilizers, pesticides, and hydroponics equipment will be considered to be an accessory for the growing of cannabis by consumers. Cannabis accessories will have strict rules around how they are labeled, where they can be sold, and how they can be promoted and advertised. There is a real concern that this may prevent such products from being sold in regular hydroponic shops, that they may have to be sold in a manner that restricts access to consumers (such as with cigarettes) or that they will require special licenses in order to sell. All of these requirements can have a negative impact on our industry's ability to do business.



We are therefore asking for your help to bring these concerns to the government. The federal government is currently consulting on its regulatory approach to cannabis. This presents an opportunity for us to have our voices heard. Attached is a letter template that you can use to submit feedback to the consultation. Simply include some information about your business, sign the letter, and email to the address in the letter. All submission must be made by January 20, 2018.


AND HERE"S THE TEMPLATE LETTER

Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Secretariat
Address locator 0602E
Health Canada
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0K9

Via email: [email protected]

[Insert company name here] is pleased to provide our input into the consultation on the Proposed Approach to the Regulation of Cannabis. [Insert a brief description of your company. Eg. Where you are located, number of stores, number of employees, contributions to the community or economy].
As a retailer we are proud to offer effective, quality hydroponic product solutions to experienced and first time gardeners. We also strive to provide quality advice to our customers with respect to appropriate products and responsible use. The products we offer for sale are not exclusively used to grow the cannabis plant. We provide growing solutions for a variety hydroponic growing scenarios because all plants have basic needs such as nutrients, proper lighting, growing media, etc. These products have a long history of safe use with respect to a wide variety of crops.
[Insert company name here] supports the government’s legalization of medical cannabis, and its position to legalize the recreational use of cannabis through Bill C-45 (An Act respecting cannabis and to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other Acts). However, the bill’s provisions as currently written would have significant negative effects on our existing business and ability to sell, market, promote, advertise, and educate members of the public on the products we sell. This is due to the definition and the deeming of Cannabis Accessories according to sections 2 (1) and 2 (3) of the bill.
Definition of Cannabis Accessories
A thing, including rolling papers or wraps, holders, pipes, bongs, and vaporizers, that is represented to be used in the consumption of cannabis, or a thing that is represented to be used in the production of cannabis; or
a thing that is deemed under subsection (3) to be represented to be used in the consumption or production of cannabis.
Deeming of Cannabis Accessories
Under Section 2(3), a thing that is commonly used in the consumption or production of cannabis is deemed to be represented to be used in the consumption or production of cannabis if the thing is sold at the same point of sale as cannabis.
The above sections lead to the restriction of the sale, marketing, promotion, and advertising of cannabis accessories in such a way, or in places where individuals under the age of 18 could see or have access to them (all of these restrictions can be found in sections 12-43 of the bill).

As a responsible retailer, we want to sell products that appropriately identify the crops which they can benefit and provide proper use instructions. We are also very much committed to promoting responsible use of the products we sell to consumers through competent advice and education. Based on the current definition, the products we sell such as fertilizers, pesticides, supplements, and hydroponic related equipment would all be considered to be cannabis accessories. Without further clarification that these products are not what the government considers to be accessories, it will lead either to our inability to sell, market, promote, and advertise the products we sell for the production of cannabis or the inability to have them labelled appropriately to reflect their use in the growing of cannabis by consumers, because these products are sold, marketed, promoted and advertised in regular retail stores which could be easily seen and accessible by minors.
In order to ensure hydroponic products (fertilizers, supplements, pesticides, hydroponic systems) are not captured under the definition of "cannabis accessory", we request the removal of "or a thing that is represented to be used in the production of cannabis" and "or production" from the definition.
Based on our experience, we do not feel that products for hydroponic growing, such as the products we supply, are likely to entice minors into growing or using cannabis, particularly if controls are placed on plants and seeds. In addition, it is our understanding that our suppliers must comply with already existing legislation concerning their products. Having another legislation or body to regulate these products could create duplication, added cost and complexity that could have a negative impact on our ability to do business. As a result, we believe that these products should be removed from the bill and left to the respective agencies that have always been responsible for regulating them.
[Company name] see the provision of information and education as being paramount to proper and safe cultivation of cannabis by consumers. The current language in Bill C-45 if not clarified will prevent the necessary information for appropriate product usage during cultivation from being transmitted to consumers. This will increase the likelihood of inappropriate product selection and use which increases the risk to consumers. It is our desire to work with the government to ensure that consumers have access to effective, compliant products, and expert developed information to support their responsible use.
We appreciate the opportunity to raise our concerns and we look forward to a solution that allows us to continue to provide quality products and service to our customers.

Sincerely,
I'm pretty sure gardening supplies are used for more than cannabis. There is no law that is going to outlaw the selling of plant growing supplies. Fertilizer, soil and pesticides are not cannabis accessories. As for actual 'cannabis accessories', that would be bongs and pipes etc. These items will also not be banned as they are items with a legitimate use for a legal product.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure gardening supplies are used for more than cannabis. There is no law that is going to outlaw the selling of plant growing supplies. Fertilizer, soil and pesticides are not cannabis accessories. As for actual 'cannabis accessories', that would be bongs and pipes etc. These items will also not be banned as they are items with a legitimate use for a legal product.
:lol: lets go backwards... way back...way way back..
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
With special permits or even if the municipality will approve the zoning. How many people grow their own food year round or even in the summer, not that many, that's why nurseries and box chains close down their garden canters 80% of the year. Nurseries make their money from growing their down crops. Very few will grow their own weed in the long run. For the first year it'll be a curiosity for most but it'll be a spit in the bucket of what a store will make from those sales. Once someone realizes how much pain in the ass it is to grow 4 plants to get an LB of weed and that it'll take them 4+ months the novelty will wear off pretty fast.
No permits. None of the municipality's business. Who's coming to look in your basement for a legal plant? Unless there is evidence of illegal sales, no judge is going to issue a warrant. Nobody is going to get a permit for 4 plants and no town is going to waste their resources looking or prosecuting. I'm sure many will grow their own, it'll just be a different kind of customer. New growers will be seeking out the hydro stores for advice.
 

CannaReview

Well-Known Member
said you were selling the shares ? in your store.
You just said your job is going away!
I don't smoke weed. (:
50 grams a day and what is it you have "to much to lose by not growing legally" again?
Did I say I'm selling my shares for free air? There's not guarantee anyone will buy them and if I do I'm starting another business with the $ but I'd still have to use that money to live on for a leasdt a year while I get the other business going.

What has one to lose by growing illegally? Straight up genius here. Hmm let see $50K+ on lawyers, possible civil forfeiture, possible extradition out of Canada, jail time etc... Going by your posts you're so set in life you don't have to worry about any of that.

I have a friend who was busted about 4 years ago. It took $150K between him, his wife and his worker in lawyer fees for the gov to drag out the court case for almost 3 years to finally drop it as they trespassed to get the evidence. Mean while he couldn't grow in the place and used up all his saving to live on for those 3 years and now he's basically broke at 60.
 

CannaReview

Well-Known Member
No permits. None of the municipality's business. Who's coming to look in your basement for a legal plant? Unless there is evidence of illegal sales, no judge is going to issue a warrant. Nobody is going to get a permit for 4 plants and no town is going to waste their resources looking or prosecuting. I'm sure many will grow their own, it'll just be a different kind of customer. New growers will be seeking out the hydro stores for advice.
A few people growing their own 4 plants is nothing to keep a store going. Like I stated before why do you think nurseries and box stores only have the garden canter open a few months per year, because no one grows the same plant in the summer indoor in the winter. A few hobby home growers spending $100 every few months are not going to help offset professional growers who spend tens of thousands per month. Anyone going to put the effort into growing will be savvy enough to order equipment online.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
Did I say I'm selling my shares for free air? There's not guarantee anyone will buy them and if I do I'm starting another business with the $ but I'd still have to use that money to live on for a leasdt a year while I get the other business going.

What has one to lose by growing illegally? Straight up genius here. Hmm let see $50K+ on lawyers, possible civil forfeiture, possible extradition out of Canada, jail time etc... Going by your posts you're so set in life you don't have to worry about any of that.

I have a friend who was busted about 4 years ago. It took $150K between him, his wife and his worker in lawyer fees for the gov to drag out the court case for almost 3 years to finally drop it as they trespassed to get the evidence. Mean while he couldn't grow in the place and used up all his saving to live on for those 3 years and now he's basically broke at 60.
growing for ones illness will not see civil forfeiture OR jail time for a sick person with a script?................ or extradition?
your friends were busted four years ago..please? they had a script did they?
as for being
"set up and not worrying about it." .
How bout being thankful your eyes opened today! :idea:(:
The only one who will see you fail in your business is you.
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
A few people growing their own 4 plants is nothing to keep a store going. Like I stated before why do you think nurseries and box stores only have the garden canter open a few months per year, because no one grows the same plant in the summer indoor in the winter. A few hobby home growers spending $100 every few months are not going to help offset professional growers who spend tens of thousands per month. Anyone going to put the effort into growing will be savvy enough to order equipment online.
I'm not in the business, so I can't argue with you, I just think some will evolve with the market and do well. I also understand knowing when to get your money out.
 

dienowk

Well-Known Member
I think the biggest threat to hydro stores is going to be places like costco and wallyworld undercutting due to their buying power. I don't know about elsewhere but legalization is unlikely to change who grows in this city (outside of an increase of people) or where people buy.
 

The Hippy

Well-Known Member
My local store is getting new folks daily coming in to buy equipment. That's not speculation...that's fact. I've been there and seen it first hand. It's actually crazy busy for them. Even the store is surprised.
Yes many will fail but the interest is definitely there right now. IMO legalization will fuel that even more for a bit.
With it being legal I could see many at least giving it a go. The chink in that may be the start-up cost. We all know you need a few thousand to really get going properly. That may convince some folks to not bother.
I'd say the real Question is how many stick with it.
As far as convenience of the new stores go vs BM....well folks still like to save money when they can. That's also a fact. Especially if you use more of it than new users will.
Low prices are the only thing the BM needs to be concerned with.
 

BigHornBuds

Well-Known Member
My local hydro store is a joke.
Only deals with a couple wholesalers ,
Thinks I should pay inflated prices to pay the power bill because he’s growing in his store. Only carries junk n half ass gear.
You want the best better go somewhere else. Cause this guy only has beginner stuff I’ve giving him the chance at ordering me gear , usually he tell me that “his” price is more then I can have it dropped at my door. Then gets mad I don’t buy it from him.
I’m sure it’s just a simple math equation of how much $ he wants to lose by having a poor operation. I think it’s only the grow in the back that keeps it alive.

Told me once that, he can pull 1.5 lbs off a 1000w and that anyone saying there doing 3 is a liar. I ask if he’s running CO2 ?
He said “I own a hydro store, of course I use CO2” ...
I pertained my phone rang , and walked out.

I drive a 3 hour round trip not to deal with him anymore .
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Interesting conversation on this. Based on what I've read in the papers they put out, there is the risk of many existing products being initially banned from being sold at retail/hydro stores. So it's worthwhile supporting them, at minimum it lets them know we're trying to keep it reasonable for these shops to continue doing normal business and not being cut out of the market.

That said, I've gone into 3 hydro stores locally in the past 5 years and another in the city. Never actually bought anything because the selection and pricing were way off base compared to what I could buy online. 2 of them asked me what lighting I used and talked down LED like dinosaurs and tried to push me to go backwards and buy hps. When I was running CMH none stocked even the bulbs and one guy was talking that tech down and telling me how better hps is. These shops will be shut down within a year just based on their inability to change, regardless of what laws come into play.

Their biggest threat is online shops & large retailers like someone mentioned already. Small shops will be priced out of the market. It'll be go big, or go home.
 

CaptainT

Active Member
I found my local large garden centre is now stocking way more hydro and organic gear than most of the local hydro shops.
 

CannaReview

Well-Known Member
I think the biggest threat to hydro stores is going to be places like costco and wallyworld undercutting due to their buying power. I don't know about elsewhere but legalization is unlikely to change who grows in this city (outside of an increase of people) or where people buy.
None of the box stores will be a threat to hydro stores, they'll have full MSRP mark up just like they have it now. Go into HD or Rona or Home Hardware and look at the prices for say GH. Its full MSRP. There are 1000's more who just grow house plants or in summer, check out the product selection even in the box stores during the gardening season. They have fuck all for products, if they don't worry about current gardeners they're not going to be an effort to carry hydro equipment for a few that will want to grow weed. Online retailers and losing the customers who spend 10-20K per month in a hydro store (Which can't be replaced by a few extra 4 plant growers) and the price of black market wholesale will have a 99% bigger impact.
 

CannaReview

Well-Known Member
I'm not in the business, so I can't argue with you, I just think some will evolve with the market and do well. I also understand knowing when to get your money out.
Well I'm taking a risk either way. I cash out and I'm wrong the the store flies and I miss out, I cash out and I'm right and the store fails and I got enough $$$ out in time to have 12 months of income and enough to start another small business. My other option with the cash out is I can move up north and live on my buddies 400 acres/log home on a lake for free (He wont be there) and still have the full amount to start something else but its up in Quesnel so that would require some market research.
 

Farmer.J

Well-Known Member
You may be forgetting about the fact that concentrates like bho oil/budder/shatter will still be illegal and in demand. The BM will still be growing to produce these products as well as others that won't be legal anytime soon.
 

CannaReview

Well-Known Member
That said, I've gone into 3 hydro stores locally in the past 5 years and another in the city. Never actually bought anything because the selection and pricing were way off base compared to what I could buy online. 2 of them asked me what lighting I used and talked down LED like dinosaurs and tried to push me to go backwards and buy hps. When I was running CMH none stocked even the bulbs and one guy was talking that tech down and telling me how better hps is. These shops will be shut down within a year just based on their inability to change, regardless of what laws come into play
98% of stores are like this at least in BC. Most have learnt from the early 2000's and stocking 100's of different product to what happened here in 2009/10 with the 24/48 hour inspections is that you can't sustain a store carrying 20 product lines of each product and still be in business when 1/2 of your stock will never sell and is now too old to return.

I've brought in LEC into the store cost me $550 for each fixture, no one gave a fuck about them. I bought in LED, no one cared. Most guys wont care and there is very little small 2-4 light growers here anymore vs before 2005 where weed was $3k per LB and there was so much of those small growers that they could keep a hydro store going just by themselves.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
98% of stores are like this at least in BC. Most have learnt from the early 2000's and stocking 100's of different product to what happened here in 2009/10 with the 24/48 hour inspections is that you can't sustain a store carrying 20 product lines of each product and still be in business when 1/2 of your stock will never sell and is now too old to return.

I've brought in LEC into the store cost me $550 for each fixture, no one gave a fuck about them. I bought in LED, no one cared. Most guys wont care and there is very little small 2-4 light growers here anymore vs before 2005 where weed was $3k per LB and there was so much of those small growers that they could keep a hydro store going just by themselves.
Yeah stock is always and issue with having the right stock for the customers in your particular market. This is where some of the big boys have an advantage, particularly online shops that have drop ship deals with their distributors, less stock/inventory, wider selection, lower points afforded since there's no inventory. It'll definitely be a tough business and you have to call it the way you see it, could go either way and a lot of it depends on timing, the unknown piece of how many will actually grow themselves, and tightened up laws.
 

dienowk

Well-Known Member
None of the box stores will be a threat to hydro stores, they'll have full MSRP mark up just like they have it now. Go into HD or Rona or Home Hardware and look at the prices for say GH. Its full MSRP. There are 1000's more who just grow house plants or in summer, check out the product selection even in the box stores during the gardening season. They have fuck all for products, if they don't worry about current gardeners they're not going to be an effort to carry hydro equipment for a few that will want to grow weed. Online retailers and losing the customers who spend 10-20K per month in a hydro store (Which can't be replaced by a few extra 4 plant growers) and the price of black market wholesale will have a 99% bigger impact.
They already did this in American markets though, it is cheaper to buy bulbs and shit at walmart than a hydro store because their overhead is covered by their mass of other products that people already go there for. One of the reasons Walmart is as profitable as it is, is because they can leverage their buying power to buy cheap and sell products at lower than msrp, if there is a demand they will identify and capitalize on it. Have a department manager (if you know one) show you what they pay for stuff on the blue inventory scanner gun they have, outside of electronics they buy super low (with electronics they often make a single penny or lose money) and as a general rule sell under msrp.
 

CannaReview

Well-Known Member
They already did this in American markets though, it is cheaper to buy bulbs and shit at walmart than a hydro store because their overhead is covered by their mass of other products that people already go there for. One of the reasons Walmart is as profitable as it is, is because they can leverage their buying power to buy cheap and sell products at lower than msrp, if there is a demand they will identify and capitalize on it. Have a department manager (if you know one) show you what they pay for stuff on the blue inventory scanner gun they have, outside of electronics they buy super low (with electronics they often make a single penny or lose money) and as a general rule sell under msrp.
American markets are way different then Canadian and even BC Lower Mailland is WAY different than the rest of Canada for pricing. I don't know how much Walmart sells bulbs for for I sell Sylvania 1000W HPS for $33.50+ tax (CDN) I just checked US Pro Mix HP price and its $32+ US when I sell it for $34 tax in. Rona and Home Depot here sell Pro Mix and Sunshine mix for way more than I do.

Do you actually think Walmart is going to dedicate 2000-4000 SQF to selling hydro equipment, not likely since they don't even use that much space for garden supplies in the summer.
 

dienowk

Well-Known Member
American markets are way different then Canadian and even BC Lower Mailland is WAY different than the rest of Canada for pricing. I don't know how much Walmart sells bulbs for for I sell Sylvania 1000W HPS for $33.50+ tax (CDN) I just checked US Pro Mix HP price and its $32+ US when I sell it for $34 tax in. Rona and Home Depot here sell Pro Mix and Sunshine mix for way more than I do.

Do you actually think Walmart is going to dedicate 2000-4000 SQF to selling hydro equipment, not likely since they don't even use that much space for garden supplies in the summer.
They won't need to, they will pick a couple of lines and only stock them and I will be surprised it they do more than that with lighting as well (outside of their online store).

Off topic kind of but what do you charge for your 315 bulbs ?
 
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