Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Soil pH is a measure of soil acidity or soil alkalinity. In our world pH measures hydronium ions (H3O+) in solution. Solution = the soil or soil-less mixes that are used for organics, water and media. Each nutrient has it's own range of acceptable pH for uptake, but fine tuning pH can lead to larger yields and more efficient uptake.

"The pH scale is logarithmic and as a result, each whole pH value below 7 is ten times more acidic than the next higher value. For example, pH 4 is ten times more acidic than pH 5 and 100 times (10 times 10) more acidic than pH 6. The same holds true for pH values above 7, each of which is ten times more alkaline (another way to say basic) than the next lower whole value. For example, pH 10 is ten times more alkaline than pH 9 and 100 times (10 times 10) more alkaline than pH 8." http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/184ph.html

This means that the difference between 6.2 and 6.8 is in reality a big difference.

Standard old school organics is very different than what I am talking about here. Old school organics don't feed like we do, and their media is soil instead of peat/coco/bark based. What I am talking about is a combination of hydro techniques (soil-less media and soluble foods) WITH organic practices and products, to make the purest tasting/smoking ganja possible. I can grow all natural vegan organic, AND I can do a super flush to remove as much chlorophyll as possible pre-harvest. No poop, no leftover food from slow releases, no residue from chem.

With soil and the ground, pH is not a big factor, as long as you are organic. When you start to do soil-less organics pH has a huge role, not as big as chem, but still very important for health and vigor. (maddy-that was for you, open your eyes to the other world of organics. we both have the right to exist.)

Each soil-less media has specific pH values and buffering capacities. Peat is famously acidic, but many products come pre-balanced. Lime can also be added for cheap. This is why the Bio Terra Plus was so great, perfect pH all the way through. Just Right Xtra is actually balanced to 7.4, but the bag says 7.01.

Organic nutrients and supplements all affect pH differently. Hygrozyme for example is super low pH. I've found that the higher quality products, like Bio Canna, are perfect pH if you mix according to the label.

6.4 pH every time I mix my Bio Canna nutes, my supplements sometimes drop that down to 5.8, but my water comes out of the tap around 8.0 so a little extra acid helps. With vegan organics pH matters, but not like chem.
 
Jack*Herrer420

Jack*Herrer420

Well-Known Member
Cool thread, but if wanting to grow organically, why go out and purchase name brand ferts? I give my plants everything they need with meals, rock phosphates, kelps, ewc, molasses. There is no need to pay big money on the super ultra mega bottled organic fert. Just my opinion.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Jack*Herrer420 said:
Cool thread, but if wanting to grow organically, why go out and purchase name brand ferts? I give my plants everything they need with meals, rock phosphates, kelps, ewc, molasses. There is no need to pay big money on the super ultra mega bottled organic fert. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
No argument about not paying big money to give them everything they need. But I am making the cleanest medicine possible (more than just giving them what they need). Even traditional soluble organics is cheaper than vegan organics. I used to grow with meals, rock, kelp, molasses ect. but tried this Bio Canna based vegan organic system and the smoke quality is obviously better.

The soil-less nature of my media gives me a real flush cycle, where I can pull out most of the chlorophyll pre-harvest, can't do that with too many meals or other slow release in the mix. But the soil-less nature of my mix also means I have to feed constantly. Following this path, I worked through every organic soil-less combo and Bio Canna is just a whole other world from most of the nutes out there. The fermented plant extracts they make are simply something I can't make at home, especially where I live. So I buy them, sb 420 allows me to recover those costs so it all works out financially and my smoke is better. Win-Win. And the vegetarian/vegan patients appreciate vegan organics to the highest level.

I can't smoke chem anymore, and organics (indoors) usually tastes underflushed. It is all about the outdoor organics and indoor veganics. BOOM!
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
This is the vegan organics network's standards for veganics. BOOM!
http://www.veganorganic.net/images/standards_jan2007.pdf

"5. Supplementary nutrients

5.1 Permitted soluble fertilisers and alginates for supplementary purposes only
(a) Supplementary tonics created on the holding e.g. Comfrey tonics, nettle tonics and
herb tonics e.g. camomile and tansy
(b) Compost teas created on the holding
(c) Dried seaweed meal
(d) Liquid seaweed and other commercially available foliar feeds suitable for organic
systems that are free from animal inputs
(e) Commercially available compound fertilisers and liquid feeds suitable for organic
systems that are free from animal inputs

5.2 Permitted fertilisers for supplementary purposes only
(a) Phosphate sources (Cadmium content less than or equal to 90mg/kg of P205);
• Natural rock phosphate (e.g. Tunisian rock phosphate);
• Calcined aluminium phosphate rock (e.g. Redzlaag) where soil pH > 7.5.
(b) Potassium (potash) sources:
• Wood-ash (from wood not chemically treated after felling) from the registered
holding
(c) Calcium-magnesium sources:
• Dolomitic limestone
• Gypsum - calcium sulphate
• Ground chalk & limestone
• Epsom salts (for acute magnesium deficiency)
• Magnesium rock (including Kierite)
(d) Clays (e.g. perlite and vermiculite).

5.3 Mineral must only be used in cases of acute shortage because the products are
quarried from non-renewable resources and are transported over long distances.

5.4 Restricted fertilisers
(a) Sulphate of potash - only where exchangeable K levels are below index 2 (100mg/litre)
and clay content is less than 20%, following soil analysis
(b) Sulphur
(c) Calcium chloride - for bitter pit in apples
(d) Industrial lime from sugar production
(e) Natural rock potash - providing it has a relatively low immediate solubility in water and
low chlorine content
(f) Trace elements
• Stone meal (ground basalt)
• Boron, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, cobalt, selenium, zinc.

5.5 Prohibited fertilisers
(a) Any animal by-product of livestock or fish origin
(b) All synthetic fertilisers including: nitrochalk, Chilliean nitrate, urea, muriate of potash,
potassium chloride, superphosphates, kanite and fibrophos
(c) Slaked lime, quicklime
(d) Lithothamnium coralloides and phymatolithon calcareum forms of calcified seaweed"
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
"...the primary source of nutrients on many organic farms in the country comes from manure from confined animal operations, or what he calls “factory farms.”

“You think you are getting these clean happy vegetables, but more often than not they’re grown in waste from factory farms,” he said. “The animals … were fed non-organic feed laced with hormones and antibiotics. Those products bio-accumulate in the animals and it’s present in their waste as well.”

http://fooddemocracy.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/salt-of-the-earth-don-bustos-ron-khosla-farm-stock-free-vegan-organic-or-veganic/
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
"There’s nothing new about embracing biodiversity and using decomposing plant matter to grow plants. It’s the very basis of natural growth. The best example is the forest, whose fertility comes from the accumulation of plants on the surface, without anyone working the soil and without artificial additions of animal manure.

Early farmers acknowledged this. There was a time when nearly all farming was done without animal manure or animal derivatives. As Ron Khosla points out, “the Romans and the Chinese used ‘green manures.'"...

http://www.friendsofanimals.org/actionline/fall-2004/veganics.html
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Dr. O said:
do u think fermented plant extract will work in rockwool or hydroton?
Click to expand...
Doubt it, sorry. Organics is based on rhizosphere health and microbial communities. I'm not convinced that organics can be done in a pure hydro media. The Bio Canna nutes that I'm using are for top feeding/drain to waste only. I could see a Bio Canna drain to waste hydro set up getting super expensive and hard to maintain. This stuff is too thick/sticky for drip, and has to be fed as soon as it is mixed.
 
Jack*Herrer420

Jack*Herrer420

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
No argument about not paying big money to give them everything they need. But I am making the cleanest medicine possible (more than just giving them what they need). Even traditional soluble organics is cheaper than vegan organics. I used to grow with meals, rock, kelp, molasses ect. but tried this Bio Canna based vegan organic system and the smoke quality is obviously better.

The soil-less nature of my media gives me a real flush cycle, where I can pull out most of the chlorophyll pre-harvest, can't do that with too many meals or other slow release in the mix. But the soil-less nature of my mix also means I have to feed constantly. Following this path, I worked through every organic soil-less combo and Bio Canna is just a whole other world from most of the nutes out there. The fermented plant extracts they make are simply something I can't make at home, especially where I live. So I buy them, sb 420 allows me to recover those costs so it all works out financially and my smoke is better. Win-Win. And the vegetarian/vegan patients appreciate vegan organics to the highest level.

I can't smoke chem anymore, and organics (indoors) usually tastes underflushed. It is all about the outdoor organics and indoor veganics. BOOM!
Click to expand...
Alright, sounds good. Like I've heard you say, there's as many methods of organic growing as there are organic growers. Nothing wrong with doing things your own way. Glad your having such good results. Keep it organic brother.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Grower Z said:
Hi Matt,

I haven't finished reading the thread yet, but wanted to point something out.

Bio Terra Plus is not a Vegan product.

http://bio.canna-uk.com/bio/products_btp_1.php

Bio Terra Plus has been pre-fertilized with certified, organic ingredients such as bone meal, bat guano...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know. Thanks. I am not 100% vegan by any means, but I do lean heavily in that direction. My soil-less mix I am using now (because Bio Terra Plus is gone here) is mostly vegan, but still not completely because I mixed in some Just Right Xtra. I go over specifics throughout the thread, sorry for all the BS posts that made this so long, but I had to defend myself from the close minded old schoolers and haters.

For the Bio Terra Plus, the amount of animal organics used is tiny, and accounts for less than 1% of the nutrition your plants will receive. It is still the best organic & 100% natural soil-less media (without perlite!). Wish I had some Bio Terra Plus in my life.
 
P

plaguedog

Active Member
Well at least the Canna lines are registered in Oregon, that's a start. All the other bottled organic "vegan" products have been pulled from the shelf as they are mislabeled or unregistered.
 
P

plaguedog

Active Member
LOL at this thread......

Some good info, and some real bad.

Using guanos doesn't make your pot harsh or taste like shit...what a farce.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
plaguedog said:
LOL at this thread......

Some good info, and some real bad.

Using guanos doesn't make your pot harsh or taste like shit...what a farce.
Click to expand...
Hey, If you read carefully it is not the guano itself that I am against. It is the over application of animal poops for making medicine. Check out the independent reviews of Vegan Organics, they all say the same thing: smoothest, cleanest smoke ever. I can't make that non-sh*t up. (non-sh*t because no poop!)

I never claimed that you can taste the poop literally, that would be silly, like saying I can taste the hops in my herb. The point is that plant based organics has less residue than poops, coming from less complex sources (plants not poops). So when I flush, I get a really good flush. I can pull out the chlorophyll preharvest, which leads to a smoother smoke.

The fact that my plant based food needs to be fed instantly when mixed with water shows how simple and available the nutes are. My plant food comes mostly digested already, broken down plants, like a compost tea of sorts. Very different than a poop/water combo.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Grower Z said:
General Organics included?
Click to expand...
No, I think GO is okay in OR. They are a nor cal company and would surely want some of that Oregon money. Most of my buddies are running GO, good results, but not like the Bio Canna. And we need to consider the ingredients when using terms like vegan organic. I prefer PLANT BASED ORGANIC because it is a more accurate description of what I am promoting. Rock and chem are technically vegan, it is the fermented plant extracts that make Bio Canna nutes stand out from the crowd.
 
GayRioThug

GayRioThug

Member
Gotta catch up on the thread. I'm not a fan of bottled organic nutes, but interested in results from all methods of growing. Wishing you the best and hope to see some dank!
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
GayRioThug said:
Gotta catch up on the thread. I'm not a fan of bottled organic nutes, but interested in results from all methods of growing. Wishing you the best and hope to see some dank!
Click to expand...
Thanks, ignore the haters and the retaliation, there are some good posts by myself and the community, not everything is bottled for everyone :)
 

Attachments

You must log in or register to reply here.
Top