Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

blueJ

I didn't think they were, but most (or all) large vermicomposting companies use chicken/horse manures etc. to feed their worms (as well as green manure/compost). I had no idea until i started researching the worm business. All the more reason to have your own worm bin/farm at home so you know exactly what's in it, otherwise i wouldn't use commercial worm castings that aren't disclaiming what they feed their worms and i don't think you could call it vegan gardening or plant based when the EWC's are just vermicomposted animal shit.

I only bring this up because it's news to me, and when i was growing strictly plant based i made the assumption my worm castings were plant fed and I was okay with that, now that I know the BLACK GOLD brand that I was specifically using was vermicomposted chicken/horse shit I'm not so okay with that. Maybe i'm less informed than most in this department but i figured someone else might be in the same boat ​

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Way to look deeper into your inputs man. Thanks for sharing what you found.

Matt Rize

This thread is kicking ass!​

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Looks like you have been getting that place weeded out and ready for THE weed. Will you be sticking to veganics or giving the higher organics techniques you mentioned produced better flowers than your old garden a go? Sorry cant help myself, do you top all your outdoor ladies? I didn't and they are getting near the top of the greenhouse. Caylx seems to love the new setup, doggie and dabber paradise eh!

Kalyx said:

Way to look deeper into your inputs man. Thanks for sharing what you found.

Looks like you have been getting that place weeded out and ready for THE weed. Will you be sticking to veganics or giving the higher organics techniques you mentioned produced better flowers than your old garden a go? Sorry cant help myself, do you top all your outdoor ladies? I didn't and they are getting near the top of the greenhouse. Caylx seems to love the new setup, doggie and dabber paradise eh!

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Yeah, Im doing a small potted garden this year, a bunch of Chernobyl backcrosses that we made last year... its all destined to be concentrate. The plants are guarded by the land owner's crazy ass pitbull so... no worries this year haha. But I can't garden without the land owner around cause that dog is big and crazy, already bit someone this month. So we are hiding him from the animal control people. RANCH LIFE!

The one plant in the ground, that I'm using for pics, is way smaller than the potted plants, but way healthier and easier to take care of. We are doing organic soil with vegan organic supplementation, basically my indoor system taken outdoors. Next year I'm planning on doing less plants, but putting them in 500 gallon smart pots with the bottom cut out, right into my giant organic garden that is not being used currently.

Thats cool your growing Chernobyl backcrosses. I just got the first couple seeds off of a Chernobyl plant that I pollinated with Northern lights pollen. Im hoping to bring a bigger yield to her. The pollen is from Nirvana northern lights which is the most vigorous highest yielding plant I have ever grown.

I think the EWC debate is really interesting...

I am an avid reader/researcher on all things organic agriculture, and from everything I have read about Veganics, the "Vegan Organic Network", which certifies farms as "stock free" have a ban on using worm castings. They even have some restrictions on using plant based teas for fertilizer. It seems they want the majority of the fertility to come from the use of legume based cover crops, as well as farm produced vegetable compost.

I would love to use all these techniques on my own land, but the trouble is, I have a couple chickens and a worm bin, and I am not about to stop using/composting these wonderful, free, home produced amendments in order to fit into some label. But the underlying principal, being, that you get the majority of your fertility through cover crops and rotations, is very cool indeed.

The medical cannabis community has allot of work to do in these areas...There are literally hundreds of potential cover crop plants/compost plants to experiment with.

Lately I have been thinking about experimenting with Yellow Sweet Clover in raised beds for the outdoor crops, used in rotation, it grows for 1 1/2 seasons, gets HUGE and you can cut it multiple times a season for composting, and it also has a huge nitrogen fixing root system. After the plant dies back, the roots and all the nitrogen it fixed, will slowly rot back into the soil, creating tons of "humus pathways" for our medical plants to feed off the following season.

I am also really interested in trying a technique called undersowing. Basically that is, using small growing clovers (white dutch for instance) to create a "carpet" under the larger crops. The benefits being nitrogen fixation, and moisture conservation.

Any ever tried something like this?

Anyone notice a difference in the Humboldt Natural Bloom 0-10-0 this year? The one I got last winter was gray, thick, and heavy. The one I just bought is thinner and maybe browner? Has anyone else noticed a change? I can't find anything, but I can call them on Monday if I have to.

Blood meal? Bone meal? Fish emulsion? The list is long actually. Most of these products are derived from the MEAT INDUSTRY. I bury fish in my compost pile. If my daughter's cat leaves a chipmonk on the front porch as a gift...into the compost! I'm a total vegan except for the part about abstaining from dead animal matter. I eat every sort of dead animal matter there is........ from the air, the ground and the sea. There is nothing unnatural about fertalizer coming from animal sources. Manuer? Weird animal pathogens? "Cracker Please!" ~~ Mike Berbiglia!!
Mel

Now that I've gotten used to them I love the BioCanna line. The product is consistently the best tasting and best smoking medicine I can find. This is a shot of a Jack's Cleaner II at 4.5 weeks.

Bro you are like 2100 posts behind the times. Take it somewhere else.

So nice I had to post it in here too.
[video=youtube;-xGG-UCO0GI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xGG-UCO0GI[/video]

Not sure if you're a fan of Insect Frass or not and if not how come? Seems like its something that would go well along with EWC, ect.
http://www.onfrass.com/what.html
Have you personally ever tried it?

And just so you know I am not trying to be rude. You have inspired me to try a Veganic grow actually. I currently am all Organic with teas and light amount of excrement from Chicken and Seabird only, of course along with the all-natural fed EWC and now trying out Insect Frass. Would be very simple to cut out the Chicken and Seabird. Already have plenty of ideas of plant derived high Nitrogen stuff for teas. What do you recommend all naturally for Flower though? Would prefer not to use store bought. So would love it if you could enlighten me because very interested in giving this a go.
I know you do not like Perlite, same as I, so why not use Diatomite?

Whattup Matt and the rest of team Veganic.

I am super amped right now! I got to spend 6+ hours learning from Kyle Kushman at a Medical Cannabis conference called Know-Can in Albuquerque. We got his full shabang in a veganics basics and advanced techniques two part lecture. Danks a lot Kyle!

I gave him some of my veganic blackberry kush and he was surprised to see some veganic flowers in NM. I was very honored when the next day he gave me props and commented that he could tell it was veganic by both the quality and smoothness. He even reassured me that he 'wasn't blowing smoke up my a**' and that he usually takes samples and passes them on because organic is even tasting a bit harsh to him now. He lit up that big Kushman smile after sampling some 70 micron ice wax on top of a bowl of the same flowers. I felt like young annakin blazing up with yoda.

So his method is now VERY similar to Rize Up veganics with some differences. He plugged biocanna and basically using it HEAVY on top of Manna Mix plus the usual products listed earlier in this thread for NPK supplementation (NN Nitrogen, Technaflora soluble seaweed, and Humbolt Natural bloom). He recommended using tea (carbs plus soluble innoculants in pure water, he uses myco madness and OG tea) and enzymes as a base for every feeding and feeding every watering. His nutes are still in the works, his photos of plants grown on the test formula looked great. He is very positive, knowledgeable, and all about dedication of ones whole being to nurturing our gardens. Thanks for all the tips and sharing the detailed knowledge.

Bird Gymnastics said:

I used to start with pure coco coir and peat moss as my base but I have found almost identical results just using Promix BX. I mix my soil in percentages rather then cups. For example, if I'm filling one of my 50 gallon containers with soil, I will use 1 gallon containers as my "cup" and mix accordingly. I like to do about 20-25% EWC, so for every 4 "cups" of soil I will mix in 1 "cup" of EWC. Make sense? Lol
So this is my mix: (w/ ProMix)
- 25% EWC
- 10% Kelp Meal
- 10% Perlite
- 5% Neem Cake

I mix approximately 1/2-1 cup great white, water it in and let it sit for about 2-4 weeks.

My Actual mix:
- 40% Pure Coco Coir (Canna)
- 10% Peat Moss
- 20% EWC
- 15% Perlite
- 10% kelp meal
- 5% neem cake

This also gets the great white as well as a cup full of dolomite lime.

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Im new to vegan. Do you use a vegan tea with this mix if so whats the recipe

HAs anyone tried the soil?BioCanna Terra if I am not wrong, any reviews?

Its awesome, just very hard to get in the USA.

I know a site where I can purchase it so no problem^^I'm in Europe..I just need some reviews pls and feedback maybe some infos on the nutes how are they?Would you recommend them?Hows the taste?Do I need flush?

Obviously you did not read the thread. ?'s are cool if you are willing to get caught up and not make everyone repeat themselves. Look earlier on in the thread when Matt was using and reusing the Bio Terra Plus and all your questions will be answered. This whole thread is about the answers to those questions. In short:

The nutes are high quality, based on fermented plant extracts and can be a bit weak in the micros and overall in 'pushed' garden scenarios. They need a very fortified mix and BTPlus is just that, the best thing that Matt could find with the BioCanna line. Kushman uses Manna Mix by Vital Earth's, dunno if thats in Europe yet.

Most of us use and recommend these nutes, even though they are pricey and need supplementation of micros, and NPK in high yield scenarios. The main reason is quality of finished product. The taste will be more complex, stronger and smoother than the same strain grown with pooganics. The main difference I note is the smoothness and utmost resin production. Personally I have not gotten pooganics yields with my 3 complete veganics runs.

Do you need to flush? I'll let you figure that one out for yourself, based on your definition of what a flush is and the lack of poo and synth in the veganic rootzone.

Educate me if you will but wouldn't standard Hydro Nutes be Vegan approved? They're all chemical salts, no animal products at all.

"yes," but then I ask you, what "vegan" makes a habit out of consuming/using products that are chemical/synthetic?

The key terminology here is "veganics" which = vegan organics, so in that sense, no, chemical nutes are not organic therefore not veganic.

Ive never understood "Organics" because again the chemicals that go into making Hydro nutes are "Organic Chemicals".