What Democrats have sponsored or cosponsored a bill to enact universal healthcare?

st0wandgrow · Jun 23, 2017

Fogdog said:
Americans have been that retarded before. What's changed? Your certainty that this is a winning issue is based on what?

It's less of a certainty, and more of a logical conclusion based on a few factors...

The AHCA. It's enjoying a roughly 17% approval rating right now. This low approval rating is based on people not wanting Medicaid slashed (gov't funded health coverage), and pre-existing condition coverage rolled back (gov't subsidized health coverage). If this shit-sandwich becomes law people will be looking for a drastic replacement.

Obamacare. People have grown to like it, and don't want it repealed for something inferior. It has become an entitlement, a lot like social security and medicare, and history has shown that Americans have been very reluctant to give up an entitlement once it has been given to them. I was very lukewarm towards Obamacare when it first passed thinking it didn't go far enough. Looking back now, I think it was the right move. It was an important step towards single payer (Obama said as much)

The timing. We are having a public conversation about health care right now. People are engaged, and are generally worried about the issue and how it will affect their finances. I believe people would be receptive to a program that would cover everyone at a fraction of the cost of our current system.

Bernie. He does a good job breaking down the numbers and helping people make sense of it. He's also a fighter who will do what he feels is right for people no matter the political capital spent. Someone has to lead the charge, and when that someone is the most popular politician in the country hurdles can be cleared.

Of course I can't be 100% certain of a single payer system becoming law any time soon, but if the dems (especially progressive ones) take back the house in 18 I think the ball will start moving towards single payer. It could be a referendum issue in the 2020 general election.

Fogdog · Jun 23, 2017

st0wandgrow said:
It's less of a certainty, and more of a logical conclusion based on a few factors...

The AHCA. It's enjoying a roughly 17% approval rating right now. This low approval rating is based on people not wanting Medicaid slashed (gov't funded health coverage), and pre-existing condition coverage rolled back (gov't subsidized health coverage). If this shit-sandwich becomes law people will be looking for a drastic replacement.

Obamacare. People have grown to like it, and don't want it repealed for something inferior. It has become an entitlement, a lot like social security and medicare, and history has shown that Americans have been very reluctant to give up an entitlement once it has been given to them. I was very lukewarm towards Obamacare when it first passed thinking it didn't go far enough. Looking back now, I think it was the right move. It was an important step towards single payer (Obama said as much)

The timing. We are having a public conversation about health care right now. People are engaged, and are generally worried about the issue and how it will affect their finances. I believe people would be receptive to a program that would cover everyone at a fraction of the cost of our current system.

Bernie. He does a good job breaking down the numbers and helping people make sense of it. He's also a fighter who will do what he feels is right for people no matter the political capital spent. Someone has to lead the charge, and when that someone is the most popular politician in the country hurdles can be cleared.

Of course I can't be 100% certain of a single payer system becoming law any time soon, but if the dems (especially progressive ones) take back the house in 18 I think the ball will start moving towards single payer. It could be a referendum issue in the 2020 general election.

Completely agree that people don't want what they have taken away. Also agree that the political discussion has amped up to the point beyond any we've seen since the Vietnam war. And now is a good time to talk about universal healthcare coverage.

The discussion is taking place in the states at this time. California is debating universal healthcare coverage and a preliminary bill (not funded) has already passed one of the houses.

I like that Sanders is railing about it in Congress and that the states that want to have healthy citizens are moving ahead of Washington on this issue. Keep the talk going.

Where we part ways is somehow blaming Democrats for not having universal healthcare already and for some odd reason expecting them to put forth a well thought out universal healthcare bill in the GOP congress. They have to stop the deployment of Trumpcare. Any effort to craft a workable universal healthcare plan at this time draws time and attention away from Trumpcare. I think this plays into the hands of Republicans, who, if successful will never let a whiff of universal healthcare coverage make it to the floor for a debate.

Then there is this irritating whine about "Corporate Democrats don't support healthy people". The history of legislation to implement universal healthcare coverage goes back more than a hundred years and for a the past 60 years (at least) implementing universal healthcare coverage has been blocked by Republicans, not Democrats. Since Bill Clinton took office, Universal Healthcare bills have been introduced twice by Democrats and scores of other bills to expand healthcare coverage to those without have been debated, some passed, including the ACA. The ACA is a bridge to universal healthcare because of exactly what you pointed out. Now that people have it, they realize its better than what was available. I'm pretty sure the plan has been to slowly add to it.

The evil part of the ACA is the insurance companies who are built into the plan and if you want to talk about that, I'll be glad to. We pay double what sister nations who have UHC and the reason for that is the unhelpful third party insurance companies who take money for managing the transactions without adding value.

My objection is all about message and not a disagreement between us about what needs doing.

ttystikk · Jun 23, 2017

This is what must change, and until it does, nothing else will;

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/06/some-people-would-rather-have-1st-class-seats-on-the-titanic-than-change-the-course-of-the-ship.html

Fogdog · Jun 23, 2017

ttystikk said:
This is what must change, and until it does, nothing else will;

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/06/some-people-would-rather-have-1st-class-seats-on-the-titanic-than-change-the-course-of-the-ship.html

tldr

Is there some important take-away that you can post up for discussion?

st0wandgrow · Jun 23, 2017

Fogdog said:
Where we part ways is somehow blaming Democrats for not having universal healthcare already and for some odd reason expecting them to put forth a well thought out universal healthcare bill in the GOP congress.

Maybe the word "blame" is not accurate. I'm more disappointed in them because they frame themselves as being for the common man. Representing the interests of the middle class. I really don't think they are much better than their Republican counterparts on a lot of issues though. If you start looking at the donor lists you begin to realize that it's just rhetoric. Pretty tough to thread the needle between doing what's best for the people when you're taking large sums of donations from corporations whos interests run counter to the people. That's what I think you and others here fail to acknowledge at times.

Fogdog said:
They have to stop the deployment of Trumpcare. Any effort to craft a workable universal healthcare plan at this time draws time and attention away from Trumpcare. I think this plays into the hands of Republicans, who, if successful will never let a whiff of universal healthcare coverage make it to the floor for a debate.
.

That's a fair point, but I don't see how this bill sees the light of day. I may be wrong, but the only thing more influential than big money donations is the thought of losing their job. With a 17% approval rating on the AHCA, they must know that a yes vote will likely mean their job. In addition, I'd love to see Bernie trot out a single payer plan right now just to compare and contrast the two options side by side. That would really highlight the holes in the AHCA, and benefits and cost savings of medicare-for-all.

Fogdog said:
Then there is this irritating whine about "Corporate Democrats don't support healthy people". The history of legislation to implement universal healthcare coverage goes back more than a hundred years and for a the past 60 years (at least) implementing universal healthcare coverage has been blocked by Republicans, not Democrats. Since Bill Clinton took office, Universal Healthcare bills have been introduced twice by Democrats and scores of other bills to expand healthcare coverage to those without have been debated, some passed, including the ACA. The ACA is a bridge to universal healthcare because of exactly what you pointed out. Now that people have it, they realize its better than what was available. I'm pretty sure the plan has been to slowly add to it.

I don't know that I've ever framed it quite like "Corporate Democrats don't support healthy people". What I question is their willingness to pass legislation that would cost the health insurance industry money. That lobby alone spends 10's of millions of dollars every year ensuring that the gravy train keeps running. I hope I'm wrong, but I think most of them place their loyalty squarely at the feet of their donors. I hope this changes. Maybe enough public pressure will bring that to bare...which is a big part of why I want to see an up or down vote on a single payer system. Let's see who's who.

Padawanbater2 · Jun 23, 2017

st0wandgrow said:
Maybe enough public pressure will bring that to bare...which is a big part of why I want to see an up or down vote on a single payer system. Let's see who's who.

Exactly. Put your money where your mouth is, let's see where you actually stand on this issue, commit to universal healthcare, put it on the record or lose your seat.

twostrokenut · Jun 23, 2017

why is the cost of healthcare always the main issue yet no one ever seems to be looking for ways to lower the cost?

Padawanbater2 · Jun 23, 2017

twostrokenut said:
why is the cost of healthcare always the main issue yet no one ever seems to be looking for ways to lower the cost?

Lowering the cost of healthcare is a major part of the issue. Countries in northern Europe have cut the costs while increasing the quality. I believe that is a model America should look at and implement. Private healthcare insurance doesn't cover everyone, is more expensive, and is lower quality.

twostrokenut · Jun 23, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
Lowering the cost of healthcare is a major part of the issue. Countries in northern Europe have cut the costs while increasing the quality. I believe that is a model America should look at and implement. Private healthcare insurance doesn't cover everyone, is more expensive, and is lower quality.

regarding costs I think the most effective way by a long shot to reduce costs would be to eliminate as much bureaucracy as possible as soon as possible.

Padawanbater2 · Jun 23, 2017

twostrokenut said:
regarding costs I think the most effective way by a long shot to reduce costs would be to eliminate as much bureaucracy as possible as soon as possible.

How would you go about doing that?

twostrokenut · Jun 23, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
How would you go about doing that?

the local monthly membership clinics seem to be the best example of privitazition atm.

no catastrophic there though and that's a problem.

Padawanbater2 · Jun 23, 2017

twostrokenut said:
the local monthly membership clinics seem to be the best example of privitazition atm.

no catastrophic there though and that's a problem.

Do you think the healthcare industry should be for profit?

UncleBuck · Jun 23, 2017

twostrokenut said:
regarding costs I think the most effective way by a long shot to reduce costs would be to eliminate as much bureaucracy as possible as soon as possible.

there is a law doing exactly that in obamacare but the orange retard you worship and voted for is getting rid of it and instead giving a provision to allow bonuses to CEOs making more than $500,000.

twostrokenut · Jun 23, 2017

Padawanbater2 said:
Do you think the healthcare industry should be for profit?

Hippocratic oath should be first priority imho. check out these prices and services for a membership at an urgent care and tell me what you think.....
http://www.prestigeuc.com/plans

UncleBuck · Jun 23, 2017

twostrokenut said:
Hippocratic oath should be first priority imho. check out these prices and services for a membership at an urgent care and tell me what you think.....
http://www.prestigeuc.com/plans

you couldn't afford a house so you downgraded yourself to a trailer.

and now you can't afford health insurance, so you opt for the medical equivalent of an infomercial for the university of phoenix.

if you didn;t have absolute shit for brains you would have no brains at all.

twostrokenut · Jun 23, 2017

UncleBuck said:
there is a law doing exactly that in obamacare but the orange retard you worship and voted for is getting rid of it and instead giving a provision to allow bonuses to CEOs making more than $500,000.

not familiar with that specific but sometimes "lowering" the costs simply means refusing to pay the costs.

twostrokenut · Jun 23, 2017

UncleBuck said:
you couldn't afford a house so you downgraded yourself to a trailer.

and now you can't afford health insurance, so you opt for the medical equivalent of an infomercial for the university of phoenix.

if you didn;t have absolute shit for brains you would have no brains at all.

fapping off to prefab'd personal insults. winning.

UncleBuck · Jun 23, 2017

twostrokenut said:
fapping off to prefab'd personal insults. winning.

i had no idea you were so stupid as to sign up for a UC profit mill and try to call it your health insurance plan,

so unlike your hovel dwelling, my insult was not prefabricated.

UncleBuck · Jun 23, 2017

twostrokenut said:
not familiar with that specific but sometimes "lowering" the costs simply means refusing to pay the costs.

no, obamacare mandated by law that administrative costs not take up any more than 20% of costs, with mechanisms to lower that number to 15% and beyond as time went on.

but he was a black man so no way you can go with his idea, even if it is the one you originally thought was a good one.

actually, i believe you call him "mulatto", not black. my bad. trying to stay on your (low) level.

twostrokenut · Jun 23, 2017

UncleBuck said:
i had no idea you were so stupid as to sign up for a UC profit mill and try to call it your health insurance plan,

so unlike your hovel dwelling, my insult was not prefabricated.

"enjoys being an unrelenting douche because daddy is the boss and there's fuck all you can do about it"

-by UncleBunk

What Democrats have sponsored or cosponsored a bill to enact universal healthcare?

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