Why Legalization should be Stopped! (wait, hear me out!)

Johnnyorganic said:

Ed Rosenthal is in favor. From his blog (He links to RIU!):

http://edrosenthal.blogspot.com/

I'll keep looking for anything related to Cervantes and Peron. I am very curious as to why they could possibly be against.

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jack herer opposed it as well, ... http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2010)


Firing of Dennis Peron

Dennis Peron, the co-author of California Proposition 215 (1996), spoke out against the taxation of marijuana in August 2009. Peron, who has been described as the "father of the medical marijuana movement", was then fired by Oaksterdam University, a leading proponent of ballot initiatives to legalize-and-tax marijuana.[25] In response, Peron has begun a weekly picket at the Coffeeshop Blue Sky medical marijuana dispensary, owned by Richard Lee. The picket takes place on Friday evenings.[26]
Journalists who report on the marijuana industry refer to this and associated events as "War breaks out within the marijuana legalization movement."[27]
Jack Herer co-authored Proposition 215 with Peron. Herer also opposes the taxation of marijuana. He gave a speech at Oregon's HempStalk Festival on September 12th, 2009 during which he decried what he calls "cannabusiness", indicating his opposition to the taxation of marijuana:
"I don't want to f**king give the United States government one f**king dollar of taxes. I think that they should go to f**king jail for getting you and me and 20 million people getting arrested for pot. It is the safest thing you can do in the universe. And that is what we are going to do in California."

We already have the "natural right" to use marijuana / own our bodies. The fact that they now want to license, tax and sell this right back to us is very revealing about the nature of government.

If they stop imprisoning people and only steal from them, I guess that's "progress".

Rob Roy said:

We already have the "natural right" to use marijuana / own our bodies. The fact that they now want to license, tax and sell this right back to us is very revealing about the nature of government.
If they stop imprisoning people and only steal from them, I guess that's "progress".

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didn't you know that all rights flow from the government?

fdd2blk said:

dennis peron, jorge cervantes and i think ed rosebthal are all against it. could someone tell me why?

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They supported another proposal that didn't make it onto the ballot. They don't like that the bill would make it a felony to sell to minors (i think) and the fact that it's 21 and over. There are also some people who object to the very idea of taxing it, but the ugly reality is that the only way we're going to get anywhere with legalization is by bribing the government and taxpayers with the idea of an additional revenue stream. As long as I can legally cultivate my own, I don't have any objection to taxing commercial marijuana just like any other luxury good. It also seems like a lot of those people just don't like richard lee and the fact that he's trying to make money from cannabis...

fdd2blk said:

dennis peron, jorge cervantes and i think ed rosebthal are all against it. could someone tell me why?

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As well as DAle Gerienger and many other prominent activists. I can tell you quickly why they do not support this bill. It is not legalization. It is sales legalization. This bill does nothing to stop incarceration for possession of over an ounce, persons will still be incarcerated and put into prison. What it does is put the cannabusiness barons like Richard lee into the drivers seat and enrich them even more. Possesion of an OZ is punishable by a $100 fine in cali. If a person can only possess 1 oz then how is that much of a step. The legalese of this bill is in favor of sales and not with the consumer. Not only that it adds 2 new felonies to the books for cannabis. How is that for legalization...

What Dennis peron, Dale Gerienger, Jorge Cervantes and many others do not like is that this does nothing to stop incarceration of cannabis users. It does nothing but legalize the sales of 1 oz of cannabis from the dispeasries. It does however add 2 felonies to the books with which to incarcerate more cannabis felons.
I have met and rapped with Richard Lee, he is a business man. The bill is considerably more in regards to Cannabis sales and less to do with cannabis legalization.
The reason that this bill made it instead of the others is the same reason that Obama nad Mc cain made it and not Ron Paul.. Deep pocket backers.

kendothegreenwizard said:

What Dennis peron, Dale Gerienger, Jorge Cervantes and many others do not like is that this does nothing to stop incarceration of cannabis users. It does nothing but legalize the sales of 1 oz of cannabis from the dispeasries. It does however add 2 felonies to the books with which to incarcerate more cannabis felons.
I have met and rapped with Richard Lee, he is a business man. The bill is considerably more in regards to Cannabis sales and less to do with cannabis legalization.
The reason that this bill made it instead of the others is the same reason that Obama nad Mc cain made it and not Ron Paul.. Deep pocket backers.

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exactly the info i was looking for. thank you kindly and welcome to rollitup.

fdd2blk said:

exactly the info i was looking for. thank you kindly and welcome to rollitup.

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Careful with the rep there, slow down.

artwallis said:

I am a California Medicinal user.

IN California, weed goes for about 2200-3200 a pound (up north anyway). By growing two pounds of weed (which can be very expensive), I can make enough money to pay for my expenses, and keep myself in medicine to keep me healthy.

It is this economic model and ONLY this economic model that has led to the FANTASTIC strains in Northern California that you can buy in any club for 15-25 bucks a gram.

If it is legalized, say goodbye to the independent grower-for-profit, goodbye to the Hydro shop on the corner, and hello to shitty pipes and shitty weed everywhere for dirt cheap.

Let's keep this a Grey area in California, shall we?

People have their careers invested here. Unorthodox careers, yes...but so many are these days.

I'm voting "NO" in NOvember.

What do you all think?

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That was a terrible attempt to get me to vote NO. Being able to legally make thousands a month off of selling your own pot is a huge loop hole and just because you can do it easily doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do. Pot should be free, that's the reason to grow. Not to make money off charging other people for something you hate paying for.

15-25 a gram? That's ridiculously overpriced I don't care how good your bud is.

Legalization means NO PARANOIA while growing your own pot. It's selfish of you to vote NO just because you are a medical patient. You aren't losing any rights here. You're just not going to be able to sell your bud for as much as before.

Rofl yeah, pipes will become shitty... if it passes it will then be illegal to produce high quality glass. only 1 mm thick maximum...

where are you getting this irrational information from

It has been proven over and over, the best weed grows in small batches. The more you produce the lower the quality. Even if big business made alot of shitty weed, the demand for good ass weed would still b at high demand.

commercial weed always blows.

JustAnotherFriedDay said:

That was a terrible attempt to get me to vote NO. Being able to legally make thousands a month off of selling your own pot is a huge loop hole and just because you can do it easily doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do. Pot should be free, that's the reason to grow. Not to make money off charging other people for something you hate paying for.

15-25 a gram? That's ridiculously overpriced I don't care how good your bud is.

Legalization means NO PARANOIA while growing your own pot. It's selfish of you to vote NO just because you are a medical patient. You aren't losing any rights here. You're just not going to be able to sell your bud for as much as before.

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how can you say "pot should be free"?

can i have some of your free pot?

i just spent 60 hours and well over 600 dollars in the past week alone on my garden. that's NOT free to me.

why should pot be free? nothing else is.

hmmmm, took me quite awhile to actually read through the entire thread start to finish, i don't really know much when it comes down to the whole legalization part of this deal, but personally i'm thinking that a lot of people are taking the 'decriminalization' thing the wrong way. is that the proper term? or legalization? honestly, i'm more here to learn than anything else, but i just thought i would put my 2 cents in JUST because i took the time to go through this thread. without skimming either.. lol, but i guess what i mean by that, is IMO even though it will be legalized, it really won't be legal. and to elaborate on that, if my understanding is correct, but please correct me if i'm wrong, it only pertains to card holders and stuff i believe, just because it will be 'legalized' doesn't necessarily mean i can just walk down the street light up a blunt and be all cool. i'm not a patient by any means, which is why i brought that up, but i do have a card. am i being misinformed? once this 'legalization' thing goes through, does that mean that there will no longer be a brick wall that seperates the patients from the common man as far as penalties go? since it will be 'legal' will it really be necessary to have proper documentation of registration with MMP resources (or whatever you call the place that basically handles all the paperwork processing for this..lol)

fdd2blk said:

how can you say "pot should be free"?

can i have some of your free pot?

i just spent 60 hours and well over 600 dollars in the past week alone on my garden. that's NOT free to me.

why should pot be free? nothing else is.

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that's a very valid point, and i feel it WHOLE HEARTEDLY. believe me. i may be wrong when i say this, but it's just a feeling in my gut that the legalization thing is pretty much inevitable.

"read me"

Heres a reason pot should be legal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbwSwvUaRqc&feature=player_embedded

All they found was a bong.

fdd2blk said:

how can you say "pot should be free"?

can i have some of your free pot?

i just spent 60 hours and well over 600 dollars in the past week alone on my garden. that's NOT free to me.

why should pot be free? nothing else is.

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Pot should not be free. It should be legal.
I could only wish I had 60 hours a week to work on my garden. I'm jealous.
On the other hand If I worked 60 hours this week at my Job and I made $1800.00 take home.
Not great but doable.

What should be "free" and unimpinged are decisions people make about THEIR bodies, THEIR property and THEIR labor.

Legislation that places a persons natural rights in the hands of another person or persons, are logically "unnatural". Unnatural laws can never be successful and will always result in conflict, pain and suffering of some people, even though they have harmed nobody.

We have a society that LEGALLY endorses the prohibition of self ownership, until that is changed there will never be freedom. The types of prohibitions and the particular subtances or acts prohibited are merely manifestations of the same disease.

I think Bill and Ted said it best, "be excellent to each other". Their genius is in the simplicity of that statement. Plus I like the way they pronunce Socrates.

since when do we want to be taxed and regulated?

It's better than being arrested and imprisoned, frankly...