With Democrats like these who needs Republicans?

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
what do you mean by price gouging? Oregon State University tuition
A student loan is an unsecured debt, generally backed by the government, tax payer dollars.

A mortgage or car loan are examples of secured debt. If you default on said loan or declare bankruptcy, the debtor can take secure their collateral in exchange for some (or all) debt forgiveness.

A personal loan, through a private lender, is an unsecured debt. If you default on said loan or declare bankruptcy, the debtor has little recourse to collect on monies owed.

An interest rate is the rate at which a borrower pays based on their credit worthiness. A student loan carries an interest rate, set at a specific value, regardless of borrowers credit worthiness, however it is unsecured nonetheless. Sort of like an FHA loan.

If a borrower buys a home with a mortgage note, then declares bankruptcy, and includes his mortgage in the declaration, he no longer owns the property and is no longer responsible for that loan, but he then has no more house. If a borrower buys an education with a student loan, then declares bankruptcy and includes his student loan in the declaration, the government can't take bank his education.

Absolving people of their student loans is not the answer. Fixing the price gouging colleges and universities practice is the solution.
For one year (three terms), Oregon State University tuition is about $10,000. Is this the price gouging you are talking about?

Bankruptcy in other areas has been shown to be a benefit to the economy, what makes student loans different?
 

see4

Well-Known Member
what do you mean by price gouging? Oregon State University tuition


For one year (three terms), Oregon State University tuition is about $10,000. Is this the price gouging you are talking about?

Bankruptcy in other areas has been shown to be a benefit to the economy, what makes student loans different?
Not at all! In fact, $10,000 is quite reasonable. I paid, well my folks paid, $18,000 a year for my college education, nearly 20 years ago.

Bankruptcy in some cases, in some situations, has proven to have a net benefit to the local economy of which the bankruptcy took place.

Rather than answer your question about what makes student loans different, other than the obvious, let me pose the inverse back to you. What makes you think allowing people to eliminate their students loans is a good idea? Knowing that the person knowingly took the loan to pay for a specific college, knowing the cost of said education and cost of carrying such a loan.

My personal opinion on the matter is that a student loan should be treated no differently than a mortgage. A long term debt to be paid in exchange for an individual's livelihood.

And again.. there is a rare exception that people can prove undue hardship.

I am fiscally conservative, if you couldn't tell by now.

I think the debate should not be about what to do "after", but rather what to do "before". Work on lowering tuition by other means besides having everyone declare bankruptcy. Or perhaps allow people to declare bankruptcy but then have that bankruptcy follow for the remainder of their lives. I'd be cool with that. -- Or, like other conservatives might say, don't attend the college that is too expensive, go somewhere else. --- Or, like a progressive might say, regulate it.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
you can't if they are private but for state schools, there should be some pricing structure for in-state students that makes them affordable to all who have the grades to be accepted.
Excellent point.

As stated above: A conservative might say, go to a different school. A progressive might say, regulate it.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Not at all! In fact, $10,000 is quite reasonable. I paid, well my folks paid, $18,000 a year for my college education, nearly 20 years ago.

Bankruptcy in some cases, in some situations, has proven to have a net benefit to the local economy of which the bankruptcy took place.

Rather than answer your question about what makes student loans different, other than the obvious, let me pose the inverse back to you. What makes you think allowing people to eliminate their students loans is a good idea? Knowing that the person knowingly took the loan to pay for a specific college, knowing the cost of said education and cost of carrying such a loan.

My personal opinion on the matter is that a student loan should be treated no differently than a mortgage. A long term debt to be paid in exchange for an individual's livelihood.

And again.. there is a rare exception that people can prove undue hardship.

I am fiscally conservative, if you couldn't tell by now.

I think the debate should not be about what to do "after", but rather what to do "before". Work on lowering tuition by other means besides having everyone declare bankruptcy. Or perhaps allow people to declare bankruptcy but then have that bankruptcy follow for the remainder of their lives. I'd be cool with that. -- Or, like other conservatives might say, don't attend the college that is too expensive, go somewhere else. --- Or, like a progressive might say, regulate it.
don't know if you watch judge judy but she has a classic line:
you go to steakhouse, you order a steak, you finish the steak,, you pay for the steak. don't complain about the cost/taste after you finish the steak
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Not at all! In fact, $10,000 is quite reasonable. I paid, well my folks paid, $18,000 a year for my college education, nearly 20 years ago.

Bankruptcy in some cases, in some situations, has proven to have a net benefit to the local economy of which the bankruptcy took place.

Rather than answer your question about what makes student loans different, other than the obvious, let me pose the inverse back to you. What makes you think allowing people to eliminate their students loans is a good idea? Knowing that the person knowingly took the loan to pay for a specific college, knowing the cost of said education and cost of carrying such a loan.

My personal opinion on the matter is that a student loan should be treated no differently than a mortgage. A long term debt to be paid in exchange for an individual's livelihood.

And again.. there is a rare exception that people can prove undue hardship.

I am fiscally conservative, if you couldn't tell by now.

I think the debate should not be about what to do "after", but rather what to do "before". Work on lowering tuition by other means besides having everyone declare bankruptcy. Or perhaps allow people to declare bankruptcy but then have that bankruptcy follow for the remainder of their lives. I'd be cool with that. -- Or, like other conservatives might say, don't attend the college that is too expensive, go somewhere else. --- Or, like a progressive might say, regulate it.
I agree. I think that going forward, college should be free for deserving students in public colleges and universities. I think the policy should be retroactive for those with outstanding federally backed student loans. I think this would be a net benefit to the economy.

People who rack up huge debt by attending private colleges are on their own.

Going forward, if people want to take out a private loan then that's up to them and they can pay whatever the going rate is for it without federal backing.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Excellent point.

As stated above: A conservative might say, go to a different school. A progressive might say, regulate it.
i'd be happy if all state schools only required room and board to be paid by the student. gives some incentive to maintain good grades and attendance while making it extremely affordable.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Going forward, if people want to take out a private loan then that's up to them and they can pay whatever the going rate is for it without federal backing.
Yes, that would be one wise solution indeed.

People who rack up huge debt by attending private colleges are on their own.
Most definitely.

I think the policy should be retroactive for those with outstanding federally backed student loans. I think this would be a net benefit to the economy.
So we punish those who've managed to pay? What about the folks who hold up their end of the contract?

Shiiiit, gimmi my Tree Fiddy dollars!

I think that college should be free for deserving students in public colleges and universities.
I'm totally cool with that. In fact, many people do go to public [and private] schools under a merit scholarship. -- I'd be open to expanding the definition of merit.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
i'd be happy if all state schools only required room and board to be paid by the student. gives some incentive to maintain good grades and attendance while making it extremely affordable.
Yup, that makes sense too. Also teaches them responsibility. A parent/guardian is more likely to make the student pay their room and board than take on the burden of tuition.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
A parent/guardian is more likely to make the student pay their room and board than take on the burden of tuition.
that's what i did. it was kinda tough working 20-30 hrs week and full load at school but managed to party my ass off and still do really well in school.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
that's what i did. it was kinda tough working 20-30 hrs week and full load at school but managed to party my ass off and still do really well in school.
same. i paid my room and board with the money i earned from selling pot and cocaine. along with my double major, i learned the notion of earning money, managing it, and how to do business, irl. all while getting shitfaced 4 nights a week and my dick wet on the daily.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
same. i paid my room and board with the money i earned from selling pot and cocaine. along with my double major, i learned the notion of earning money, managing it, and how to do business, irl. all while getting shitfaced 4 nights a week and my dick wet on the daily.
damn, where were you when i needed it! the pot i'd buy was mexi-brick and the coke was so stepped on it wasn't funny. lol
 

see4

Well-Known Member
damn, where were you when i needed it! the pot i'd buy was mexi-brick and the coke was so stepped on it wasn't funny. lol
lol. i hear ya man.

i was in the nyc area at the time, much of my pot was kind and on occasion i'd get dank, usually when a friend drove it back from humbolt county, and only a few pounds at a time. snappers were slightly stepped on, but diesel enough to get you zooted, still some scale, and always gave good drip.

ahh, those were the good ole days.

One of my closest friends went to a birthday party recently for a mutual friend out in New Canaan CT, these guys are in their 40s and still doing rails. Fucking crazy fuckers. No way in fuck I'll do that now, my poor heart would give out. lol
 

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
I'd argue that $16,000 is far more reasonable than $45,000, and furthermore I'd argue that saying, "you might as well say it's only a hundred million billion dollars", is an excuse to stay poor.
You response tells me you have zero personal experience with true America poverty. Stay golden.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
You response tells me you have zero personal experience with true America poverty. Stay golden.
No. If a person gets accepted to a college with a tuition of $16,000 a year and turns it down because, "it might as well be a hundred million billion dollars", is making an excuse to not better themselves.

I worked very hard to get where I am, and I deserve everything I've earned, and I've made no excuses for myself. And I was not born with a gold, silver or platinum spoon in my mouth.
 

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
true that. so when you say "start paying"...you mean throw all the debt on the taxpayer and finance more? or raise taxes to actually pay for services rendered?

the fact is to rise above poverty any American can do just three things:

graduate high school
not have children out of wedlock
have a job

the data shows 97% of anyone doing these three will not be poor, no college needed.
What data? Seems like a hard thing to quantify.

And yes I mean we the people should pay for equal education. I don't get the logic of a $700+billion dollar war budget but then crying about education cost. Again, its cool, we'll just keep bringing in those immigrants you conservs love so much to do the jobs our moronic masses can no longer do. Trump it bro
 

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
No. If a person gets accepted to a college with a tuition of $16,000 a year and turns it down because, "it might as well be a hundred million billion dollars", is making an excuse to not better themselves.

I worked very hard to get where I am, and I deserve everything I've earned, and I've made no excuses for myself. And I was not born with a gold, silver or platinum spoon in my mouth.
Me too but unlike you I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking of our country as a whole. You can't use your experience in life as comparison of other human's life.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Me too but unlike you I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking of our country as a whole. You can't use your experience in life as comparison of other human's lives.
How do presume I'm thinking only about myself?

I am thinking about the country as a whole too, but likely from a different pair of lenses than you.

You're making an assumption that I'm comparing anybody to anything, I'm only stating what I perceive to be what I consider right and wrong as it pertains to managing one's personal obligations to debt they've bound themselves to.

You need to explain yourself a little before making assumptions about my premise.
 
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