With Democrats like these who needs Republicans?

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
You can go to alot of European universities and study there for about $16000 a year. I'm surprised more people dont do it, even for a year or two because even with cost of living, rent, etc it's still vastly cheaper and you get to travel to new places.
Because to a lot of Americans when you say "it's only$16,000..." you might as well say "it's only a hundred million billion dollars..."

Have you ever been to rural America, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama? Rural Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio etc... Mother humpers are broke as fuck. So without willingly taking on extreme debt a majority of Americans would not be able to afford college, that's why they accepted it. That is why in order for America to be competitive again we need to start wiping this old greed laden debt and start paying for each other to get educations. Or we can sit back complaining about taxes while China, India, S. Korea, Japan, Germany, France etc... replace us in every last field of technology. STEM?
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Because to a lot of Americans when you say "it's only$16,000..." you might as well say "it's only a hundred million billion dollars..."

Have you ever been to rural America, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama? Rural Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio etc... Mother humpers are broke as fuck. So without willingly taking on extreme debt a majority of Americans would not be able to afford college, that's why they accepted it. That is why in order for America to be competitive again we need to start wiping this old greed laden debt and start paying for each other to get educations. Or we can sit back complaining about taxes while China, India, S. Korea, Japan, Germany, France etc... replace us in every last field of technology. STEM?
I'd argue that $16,000 is far more reasonable than $45,000, and furthermore I'd argue that saying, "you might as well say it's only a hundred million billion dollars", is an excuse to stay poor.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
So I guess it is to assume that tinydick thinks that students should be allow to eliminate all their student debt through bankruptcy.

Or put more succinctly, ttystikk aka. tinydick, thinks that people should be allowed to enter into an agreement to borrow money, take the money and use it, and then never live up to their end of agreement.

Or more precisely, tinydink thinks its ok for people to steal.

What a fucking loser.
Oh look- 2blind can only win an argument if he stuffs his opponent's mouth full of things he never said.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Because to a lot of Americans when you say "it's only$16,000..." you might as well say "it's only a hundred million billion dollars..."

Have you ever been to rural America, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama? Rural Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio etc... Mother humpers are broke as fuck. So without willingly taking on extreme debt a majority of Americans would not be able to afford college, that's why they accepted it. That is why in order for America to be competitive again we need to start wiping this old greed laden debt and start paying for each other to get educations. Or we can sit back complaining about taxes while China, India, S. Korea, Japan, Germany, France etc... replace us in every last field of technology. STEM?
You're never going to make it here.

What you say makes waaaay too much sense!
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12/20/the-counter-revolution/

The Counter Revolution
By Adrian Kuzminski

The polarization of our country isn’t between left and right, liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican. It’s between richer and poorer, elitists and proletarians, over-educated and under-educated, globalists and localists. The line between the two is a shifting one, depending on where you live, but the consistent difference is the ability to participate successfully in the economy. Successful participants are able, without onerous labor, to accumulate sufficient income, assets, and benefits to provide for security for themselves and family–a comfortable home, useful education, vacations and travel, health care, a few luxuries, and comfortable retirement. This was the reality once made possible for most middle-class Americans by competent public education and high-paying industrial jobs.

Those days are long gone. Fewer and fewer people can maintain an upwardly mobile life-style; more and more are falling behind. A recent survey conducted by the Federal Reserve revealed that half of Americans (49%) could not come up with $400 within 24 hours. How this shift to relative poverty happened over a generation is perhaps the central story of our time. A series of political decisions beginning in the 1970s successfully dismantled the middle-class state in favor of the plutocratic oligarchy under which we now live. Deregulation began under Jimmy Carter; Reagan busted unions and ingrained a hatred of “big government;” the Bushes and Clinton gutted welfare programs, repealed long-standing financial regulations, like the Glass-Stegal Act, and promoted globalization after the fall of the Soviet Union; Obama pursued identity politics while failing to reform Wall Street after the 2008 crash; Trump has focused on tax cuts for the rich (justified by trickle-dow economics) while dismissing scientific standards of truth and playing on racial and xenophobic fears.

Most of this can be understood as a reaction to the revolutionary politics of the 1960s. The young generation of the time, dismayed by the injustice of the Vietnam War and unaccountable corporate-military power evident the wake of the Kennedy assassination, threatened, for a time, to overthrow the social and political norms of American society. Blacks in inner cities, inspired by the civil rights movement, rose up in unprecedented revolt in a cry for social justice, contributing to the chaos.

These disruptions were not to be tolerated. Wealthy establishment leaders put their leads together and launched a top-down counter-revolution. They funded think-tanks, conservative media, and right wing politicians–most of whom preached a libertarian politics derived from Friedrich Hayek and Ayn Rand. The catchword was “freedom” and the idea was to remove all impediments to making or sharing money. Crucial to their success was the co-optation of the Democratic party leadership, beginning with the Bill Clinton and the Democratic Leadership Council. With the Democrats firmly on board, and with financial deregulation and globalization in the works, the counter-revolution swept all before it.

So here we are. Social justice has been reduced to identity politics, with economic justice left in the dustbin of history. Progressives on the political fringe are left begging for crumbs from the corporate table that will never come under the current dispensation: free college education, universal health care. The consolation prize is the apparent victory of gender politics in a now endless series of media exposes of powerful men abusing women–a victory perilously vulnerable to backlash.

The upshot is that our current politics is largely irrelevant. Odious and horrific as Trump may be, and he is, the liberal opposition lost most of its credibility when it sold out to the counter-revolution. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have little hope of restoring the old prosperity of the middle class. Globalization and a financialized economy with little benefit for ordinary people remains the order of the day.

Those benefiting from the status quo, even marginally, are unlikely to champion real reform. The only hope, if this analysis makes any sense, lies with the poorer, under-educated, proletarian localists. So far they have been enthralled by Trumpian rhetoric, the only blunt instrument they’ve been offered with which to beat up the establishment. But it’s not working for them. Trump is not a globalist, but he is committed to a financialized, growth-dependent economy. The problem is that trickle-down economics–global or local–isn’t going to work any more. Pollution, climate change, resource depletion, technology, population increase–all these conspire to frustrate future economic growth and to render increasing numbers economically irrelevant.

Trumpian economics is bound to turn sour. When it does his constituency will be up for grabs. Its members have been fed the red meat of racism , xenophobia, and sexism. Can they rise above prejudices which they may share, but which have also been foisted upon them? If globalization has a virtue, it’s multi-culturalism–a universal vision of humanity. Can multi-culturalism survive the end of globalization? What sources can inform a generosity of spirit for proletarian localists? Will they be kind to their elitist neighbors, or will they persecute them?

These are the questions of our time.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
where does the funding for that come from?
From endowments- tax deductible donations.
From taxes- transfers from citizens
From tuition and fees- from debt slaves who can't declare bankruptcy no matter what!

So where's the incentive to maximize value and keep costs down? There isn't one.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
Because to a lot of Americans when you say "it's only$16,000..." you might as well say "it's only a hundred million billion dollars..."

Have you ever been to rural America, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama? Rural Wyoming, Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio etc... Mother humpers are broke as fuck. So without willingly taking on extreme debt a majority of Americans would not be able to afford college, that's why they accepted it. That is why in order for America to be competitive again we need to start wiping this old greed laden debt and start paying for each other to get educations. Or we can sit back complaining about taxes while China, India, S. Korea, Japan, Germany, France etc... replace us in every last field of technology. STEM?
true that. so when you say "start paying"...you mean throw all the debt on the taxpayer and finance more? or raise taxes to actually pay for services rendered?

the fact is to rise above poverty any American can do just three things:

graduate high school
not have children out of wedlock
have a job

the data shows 97% of anyone doing these three will not be poor, no college needed.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
true that. so when you say "start paying"...you mean throw all the debt on the taxpayer and finance more? or raise taxes to actually pay for services rendered?

the fact is to rise above poverty any American can do just three things:

graduate high school
not have children out of wedlock
have a job

the data shows 97% of anyone doing these three will not be poor, no college needed.
I'm gonna need to see a citation on your statistic. It is no longer that simple.

It is well past time to raise taxes on high income individuals, families and especially corporations, they've been getting a free ride- literally- for far too long.

While we're at it, capping deductions to incentivise efficiency and to level the playing field for smaller firms would also be a good step.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
From endowments- tax deductible donations.
From taxes- transfers from citizens
From tuition and fees- from debt slaves who can't declare bankruptcy no matter what!

So where's the incentive to maximize value and keep costs down? There isn't one.
ok, that's fair and exactly what I asked, so thanks.... where does the lionshare of the funding come from?
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna need to see a citation on your statistic. It is no longer that simple.

It is well past time to raise taxes on high income individuals, families and especially corporations, they've been getting a free ride- literally- for far too long.

While we're at it, capping deductions to incentivise efficiency and to level the playing field for smaller firms would also be a good step.
ok I will cite it. while I am looking let me ask you: why is it that most lottery winners with a history of poverty fall right back to poverty after blowing their winnings?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
ok, that's fair and exactly what I asked, so thanks.... where does the lionshare of the funding come from?
Each school has its own mix. You'll have to look it up. Public institutions are far more forthcoming than private schools, no surprise there.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna need to see a citation on your statistic. It is no longer that simple.

It is well past time to raise taxes on high income individuals, families and especially corporations, they've been getting a free ride- literally- for far too long.

While we're at it, capping deductions to incentivise efficiency and to level the playing field for smaller firms would also be a good step.
corporations were already paying almost half...even the new rate about to be passed is more than you pay. if you're saying let's ditch the workarounds that lower "effective" rates then sure, i can get on board with that.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
ok I will cite it. while I am looking let me ask you: why is it that most lottery winners with a history of poverty fall right back to poverty after blowing their winnings?
They don't know how to invest their money wisely. This comes from lack of education and lack of practice. In fact, it's a bigger determinant of living standards than income.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
corporations were already paying almost half...even the new rate about to be passed is more than you pay. if you're saying let's ditch the workarounds that lower "effective" rates then sure, i can get on board with that.
This is a complete and vicious fabrication. Many of the Fortune 50 actually pay negative taxes after deductions, subsidies and incentives.
 

twostrokenut

Well-Known Member
They don't know how to invest their money wisely. This comes from lack of education and lack of practice. In fact, it's a bigger determinant of living standards than income.
so people are defaulting on free high school atm and you don't think college will follow suit?
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Oh look- 2blind can only win an argument if he stuffs his opponent's mouth full of things he never said.

So sad. 4 posts in a row, with literally nothing to say.

I will ask you again, coward, do you think students should be able to eliminate all their student loans through bankruptcy?

Why are you not able to answer a simple question? It really comes down to either saying, "yes" or "no".

Ignorance talking.
I agree, you should stop talking.

But of course, allow me to explain.

The median salary of a high school educated individual is $28,000.
The median salary of a college educated individual is $45,500. Or roughly $17,000 more.

$17,000 is more than $16,000. Therefore it behoves an individual to take the $16,000 a year loan, as their expected post graduate salary will be the offset to the loan.

I tried to break it down as simply as possible for you.
 
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