Alternatives to Fossil Fuels....?

[Sparkticus]

I love the threads on solar. I'm all for it and even almost finished with a national solar install certification. I don't really think anybody is hiding anything, we all have google. In my opinion, the main issue is the initial up front cost. The average citizen doesn't have $20,000 to spend for something he can get for $100-$200 a month. I know there's financing but there's big business stepping in for a cut. And to go 100% of grid you have to oversize your system by a ridiculous amount. Also where I'm from, if you really figure out your bill by selling it back and repurchasing, there is hidden cost to where you loose. For solar or any other method to really happen, we have to want it because it's going to be costly initially.

This is a fact from a text book that 1/2 a days sunshine on the U.S. could supply all the electric needs in the U.S. for 1 year. Solar water Heating by Bob Ramlow

Solar doesn;t cost 20,000 to get. I mean some systems may but those are huge. The average home solar system ranges from 3-7 grand.

 

[jimmer6577]

Solar doesn;t cost 20,000 to get. I mean some systems may but those are huge. The average home solar system ranges from 3-7 grand.

My 20,000 was to also do the heating in my area. You can buy it 4 3-7k but that doesn't include installs either. The average person isn't going to install the system themselves. Then you have boilers and plumbing for heating because you're not going to heat with solar PV here. Evacuated Tupe collectors, pumps, Storage tanks, I could go on but won't. You can get the solar panels for 3-7 k depending on quality, but thats only a small part in the whole picture. No need for any more discussion on my end. $20,000 is reasonable to make a house 75% self efficient not just electric.

 

[Sparkticus]

My 20,000 was to also do the heating in my area. You can buy it 4 3-7k but that doesn't include installs either. The average person isn't going to install the system themselves. Then you have boilers and plumbing for heating because you're not going to heat with solar PV here. Evacuated Tupe collectors, pumps, Storage tanks, I could go on but won't. You can get the solar panels for 3-7 k depending on quality, but thats only a small part in the whole picture. No need for any more discussion on my end. $20,000 is reasonable to make a house 75% self efficient not just electric.

Hey I agree, but in some instances you can supplement. I have one connected to my water heater/ac...didn't cost me much at all and saves me a ton. Installed 5 grand. Takes away the two biggest expenses as far as my electric is concerned. It doesn't have to be so expensive is all, there are options.

 

[Wilksey]

lefties created the economic landscape that drives industry overseas, then bitch and make up conspiracies for those who, predictably, move their industries overseas.

I agree with that, however, the limp-wristed socialist nanny state twats can't do shit without the approval of the so called "conservative" segment of our government. Nor can the "conservatives" do shit without the approval of the pole smokers.

It's not about lib vs. conservative, though that's what THEY want people to think, it's about the everyday citizen trying to live their life in peace vs. the corrupt political party system selling us out to the highest bidder...be they conservative, liberal, corporate, Saudi, or Chinese.

As long as idiots keep believing "their" team is "right", this nation will continue to get fucked until there are no more resources to exploit and we look like any other third world shithole.

The party system needs to GO.

 

[jimmer6577]

Hey I agree, but in some instances you can supplement. I have one connected to my water heater/ac...didn't cost me much at all and saves me a ton. Installed 5 grand. Takes away the two biggest expenses as far as my electric is concerned. It doesn't have to be so expensive is all, there are options.

I totally agree with that.

 

[heckler73]

What about water?

I have seen it before. I remember doing an experiment in high school. Can't remember how it went but it basically separates the hydrogen from the oxygen (both of which are flammable)

If you could do it with salt water without destroying your engine you'd be a bagillionare.

It's called electrolysis, and the US Military has figured out a method to create hydrocarbons from seawater (via the CO2 solute).

This is a fact from a text book that 1/2 a days sunshine on the U.S. could supply all the electric needs in the U.S. for 1 year. Solar water Heating by Bob Ramlow

Using an average of 6 kWh/m^2 per day in August,
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/serve.cgi
then calculate area of contiguous US, 7,663,941.7 km2 = 7,663,941.7E6 m2
Multiply them and get ~4.6E13 kWh
That's a big fuckin' number!
What's annual electricity consumption in the US?
3.826E9 kWh (2012) expected to grow to ~4.9E9 kWh in 2040...
I guess it is theoretically possible, after all, with plenty of leftovers to spare!
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/MT_electric.cfm#cap_natgas?src=Electricity-b1
Now if we can just figure out where to put the trees and everything else....hmmm...and get that efficiency up past 50%...

 

[Dr Kynes]

Wind, tidal, solar, geothermal... there are numerous alternatives that are more abundant, efficient and cleaner. The wealthy who are invested in fossil fuels are ABSOLUTELY "hiding" these technologies ...

riiiight...

 

[Sparkticus]

riiiight...

"I put hiding in quotes because what they actually do is BUY the patents and then stunt the research so it won't compete"... If you're going to quote it, quote the whole thing. YOU said they were "hiding". I explained it...twice.

 

[Dr Kynes]

"I put hiding in quotes because what they actually do is BUY the patents and then stunt the research so it won't compete"... If you're going to quote it, quote the whole thing. YOU said they were "hiding". I explained it...twice.

and yet the technology is not stunted.

solar tech is way better than it was in the 80's, because it has been improved by the guys who you claim "hide" the technology, and the increases in oil prices, increased demand for "green" technology and irrational fears over global warming have made the technology profitable.

you may as well claim that buick, chrysler, plymouth, dodge, lincoln etc.. (all carriage manufacturers in the 1800's) "HID" automobile technology to preserve their buggy monopoly

 

[Sparkticus]

and yet the technology is not stunted.

solar tech is way better than it was in the 80's, because it has been improved by the guys who you claim "hide" the technology, and the increases in oil prices, increased demand for "green" technology and irrational fears over global warming have made the technology profitable.

you may as well claim that buick, chrysler, plymouth, dodge, lincoln etc.. (all carriage manufacturers in the 1800's) "HID" automobile technology to preserve their buggy monopoly

Lol, way better than it was in the 80's? And how much has cell phone technology advanced in the same frame? The point is we could/should all have cheap solar energy. Should have had it 20 years ago. The technology exists and should be available but it isn't. We don't because they stunt it and keep it pricey. You believe whatever you want, sir. Again, this isn't a conspiracy theory. This is a common practice in business. The oil companies didn't create the technology, they bought it from someone who did...and slowed the progress.

 

[Red1966]

bio-energy is the thing to get into. if we were to devote as much effort into 'green scene' as we do petroleum, we could literally grow this planet for the good of all. burn renewable resources if necessary, and move to less infective processes. for instance, using solar/wind/geothermal energy to provide power to use water (h and o2), our footprint could be practically invisible.

Bio-energy does nothing to reduce co2 emissions. You're still burning carbon fuels.

 

[Red1966]

You're still combusting with oils. Personally I'll look to plug in items. Electricity is so clean and the tech is here.

Electricity is created by burning fuel. Your Prius runs on coal.

 

[Red1966]

I saw that. It isn't for high speed roads,. there is an Israel invention for that.

This is for parking lots. Great idea, I thought. A highway has to be a lot deeper set with foundation materials to last for a while with giant trucks. You see they use concrete for freeways in urban areas.

The other invention is to bury Piezo-electtic generators in the road bed. deep enough for protection and mostly solid state devices to last.

The constant rolling pressure generates power.

The constant rolling pressure consumes power.

 

[Red1966]

What about water?

H2O: Di Hydrogen Oxide

I have seen it before. I remember doing an experiment in high school. Can't remember how it went but it basically separates the hydrogen from the oxygen (both of which are flammable)

If you could do it with salt water without destroying your engine you'd be a bagillionare.

It takes as much energy to separate the hydrogen and water as you get get from burning the hydrogen.

 

[yktind]

It takes as much energy to separate the hydrogen and water as you get get from burning the hydrogen.

So like ethanol? Takes as much or more energy than it actually creates.

 

[killemsoftly]

Electricity is created by burning fuel. Your Prius runs on coal.

You know Red, I'm creating a little red book full of your one-liners. Keep it up, you marvelous bastard. lol

 

[Dr Kynes]

Lol, way better than it was in the 80's? And how much has cell phone technology advanced in the same frame? The point is we could/should all have cheap solar energy. Should have had it 20 years ago. The technology exists and should be available but it isn't. We don't because they stunt it and keep it pricey. You believe whatever you want, sir. Again, this isn't a conspiracy theory. This is a common practice in business. The oil companies didn't create the technology, they bought it from someone who did...and slowed the progress.

lol indeed

cell phone tech was brand spanking new in the 80's, just like the car when daimler and benz made their first horseless carriage in 1886, but the Ford Model T didnt turn cars into practical devices until 1913, some 27 years later

solar panels are far more complicated to manufacture, and thus progress is slower

even your precious cell phone is simple by comparison to the new thin film flexible solar cells.

you need a villain against whom you can vent your spleen, but there aint no villains in this drama

 

[Rrog]

Electricity is created by burning fuel. Your Prius runs on coal.

where do you think the electricity for your plug comes from?

A: mostly coal or natural gas, which are fossil fuels.

I was and am still referring to solar panels for the electricity generation...

Seems weird that such a wonderful topic is so full of animus.

 

[Rrog]

really? the Koch Brothers?

i guess the Koch Brothers are secretly controlling the sierra club and the kennedys with their evil Big Oil Mind Control Powers.

lol. I hope someone here beside you is enjoying the droll sarcasm. wow

 

[Dr Kynes]

I was and am still referring to solar panels for the electricity generation...

Seems weird that such a wonderful topic is so full of animus.

the problem is the lefty "one size fits all" mentality, and the insistence that their way is best, with barely concealed disdain for those who CAN NOT use solar panels for their home power needs.

and the not at all concealed hatred for those who actually provide the materials and fuel that makes your comfortable lifestyle possible,