The religion of peace

[AlecTheGardener]

Yeah, he was, and he and some of his children and many of his followers were murdered by the FBI, DEA, and other federal agents in a senseless attack carried out by Bill Clinton's minions.

It seems pretty easy to dredge up a US leader who killed innocents.

I see a pattern here.

 

[desert dude]

It seems pretty easy to dredge up a US leader who killed innocents.

I see a pattern here.

None have murdered innocent people quite so blatantly and unapologetically as was done to the strange Christian sect in Waco, TX though.

The survivors of the Waco massacre were tried for murder of the federal agent and others. Do you recall the outcome of that trial?

 

[reddan1981]

@Heckler 73 your reference to Christopher Hitchens. Anyone else interested in an easily digestible format for understanding Islamic beginnings to the present.

 

[AlecTheGardener]

None have murdered innocent people quite so blatantly and unapologetically as was done to the strange Christian sect in Waco, TX though.

The survivors of the Waco massacre were tried for murder of the federal agent and others. Do you recall the outcome of that trial?

Davidians in prison, manslaughter.

Nothing happened to the Feds.

 

[desert dude]

Davidians in prison, manslaughter.

Nothing happened to the Feds.

Nope. All the Davidians were acquitted of the murder related charges.

You're correct about the feds though, nothing happened to any of them.

 

[Doer]

No he proclaimed to be the Messiah. His actions stated otherwise

All religions are just made up and David certainly claimed to be Christian.

And all Christisns are quite removed from the concepts of Peter's Jewiah cult of Christos whlch was made up by the Greek martyr, Stephan.

 

[Doer]

They get pissed off about cartoons because they are told to get pissed off about cartoons. If your illiterate and your religous leader tells you the Quran says to kill those who create cartoons. How you going to find out for yourself?

That is right

Religion is to know to do when they tell you

 

[ChesusRice]

Yeah, he was, and he and some of his children and many of his followers were murdered by the FBI, DEA, and other federal agents in a senseless attack carried out by Bill Clinton's minions.

LOL
He had lots of opportunitys to surrender.
Way too many in my book.
HE chose death for him and his followers

 

[AlecTheGardener]

Nope. All the Davidians were acquitted.

You're correct about the feds though, nothing happened to any of them.

I thought weapons charges stuck though? I do know that the 'machine gun' issue was appealed and went round n' round for a bit.

Thought a few of them were in prison until 2007? Or was it a 100% acquittal in the end?

 

[desert dude]

LOL
He had lots of opportunitys to surrender.
Way too many in my book.
HE chose death for him and his followers

How kind of you to conclude death by incineration was appropriate for he and his children.

 

[Doer]

The ones acquitted?
Most of the saints were dead the next day

 

[desert dude]

I thought weapons charges stuck though? I do know that the 'machine gun' issue was appealed and went round n' round for a bit.

Thought a few of them were in prison until 2007? Or was it a 100% acquittal in the end?

You're right. Some of them were convicted on weapons related charges.

 

[AlecTheGardener]

You're right. Some of them were convicted on weapons related charges.

Thank goodness that ATF saved us.

<sarcasm>
Never you mind the burning bodies behind us, nothing to see here folks. Just another lawbreaker getting what they deserve after they broke the law.
</sarcasm>

 

[Dr Kynes]

Yes, Doer, I have. I am in fact in a position where I encounter many muslim women. There's a difference between Muslims agreeing that their religion is the only true religion and Muslims agreeing that all infidels should be killed. While Christianity is a religion that includes free will, Christians will tell you "if it's God's will" for a myriad of topics as well. Not implying Christians support violence, but that are instructed to leave everything in God's hands. So I'm not sure how you mean your statement. Even within Christianity there are those who blindly follow the bible without ever studying it. They read it but don't bother to find out context, language, or culture with in it to provide a broader understanding. Rather they just subscribe to what their religion tells them to believe about it.

Can't the same be said of Muslims? I have listened to Muslims argue that the Koran doesn't support violence against women for example. Yet so many Muslim women are mutilated and killed in the name of the Koran. Who is right? Who has studied the Koran vs. just repeating what other religious Clerics have said it means?

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

you can now strap on your hip waders and slog through it yourself.

in between the bad prose, failed poetry and declarations of divinity, it is chock-block full of insistence that ALL THE WORLD must bow to their god, violence is perfectly acceptable against "mischief makers" (and then goes on to define "mischief makers" as all unbelievers) and of course, declarations that if you disagree with even one word of this screed, you are an apostate/enemy of islam, and should be killed.

theres even some people who are irredeemable and can never be forgiven, instead they must be destroyed root and branch, like polytheists (which includes hindus, buddhists, taoists, confucians, and depending on their mood, christians just to name a few) atheists, ancestor worshipers, idolators (again thats a big list that includes christians or not, depending on their whim), and those who reject islam the first time it is "offered"

moslem apologists can say whatever they wish, but the book is clear;
become moslem or you will be either a slave a dhimmi or a corpse, and this includes the WHOLE world.
"Jihad" is mandatory. if you arent supporting the "Jihad" in some way, youre committing the "sin of shirk"
some people are simply damned and a must be exterminated (the list varies depending on who is shouting at the moment)
every word in the koran is 100% true and non-optional
if you dont like some parts, tough noogies. obey or be an apostate. (interpretations vary of course so anyone can be declared apostate by other sects)
and when all the world has become properly moslem (of YOUR sect of course) then we will have peace.



and of course, the jews.
sure theres lots of "jews are people of the book" slogans in there, but the oddities of the koran confuse the issue.
later verses in the koran can supersede earlier "revelations", yet the book is not arraigned chronologically.

the koran's chapters are arraigned from longest to shortest, with earlier "revelations" coming both before and after later ones.
who can decide whether jews are "people of the book" or not?

the Council of Experts does that in shia, and the imams do it in sunni islam.
both agree however that the "people of the book" revelations are older (and thus superseded) by the less apologia friendly declarations like:

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

so yeah.

and then theres the Hadith...
dont get me started.

in the end, the moderate moslems who dont want to start shit, and arent scheming to subjugate the world by fire and sword, are "apostates" in the eyes of the fundamentalists, and being an apostate is almost as bad as being a polytheist or an idolator, or (depending on whether they are talking to a western or moslem audience...) being a hateful unforgivable, eternally condemned JEW

fuck that shit.

 

[UncleBuck]

I am in position to hire and travel, meet people and if they are muslim I ask. "Will you accept any other Religion to exist along side Islam, or is it a constant struggle until there is no God but Allah?" This is where you must probe. They will tap dance this one. And only 1 in 5 will even try to answer.

the one person you asked here said of course all religions can co-exist, and you took it as him saying the opposite.

your judgment is incredibly impaired on this issue.

 

[UncleBuck]

People twist the bible all the time too. That's the problem. Religion is a man made thing. You can follow the bible or the koran (I suppose) and not be religious. In fact Jesus warned against religious dogma, yet folks still try and twist/misquote the bible all the time. Even well intentioned Christians.

i recall a well-intentioned, born again christian starting a needless war of choice that left about a million muslims dead in iraq.

body counts between christian terrorism and muslim terrorism do not even compare.

thank you for advancing the argument that those who do these horrible things in the name of religion are not representatives of that religion. some people only apply that to christians, while demonizing muslims.

 

[Doer]

One person?

Oh let me be you troll.
You lie so thoughtessly

 

[Doer]

i recall a well-intentioned, born again christian starting a needless war of choice that left about a million muslims dead in iraq.

body counts between christian terrorism and muslim terrorism do not even compare.

thank you for advancing the argument that those who do these horrible things in the name of religion are not representatives of that religion. some people only apply that to christians, while demonizing muslims.

you side with Muslims against Chratians and I take no sides re: religion

 

[UncleBuck]

Yeah, he was, and he and some of his children and many of his followers were murdered by the FBI, DEA, and other federal agents in a senseless attack carried out by Bill Clinton's minions.

probably should have just let him keep raping 12 year old girls.

 

[Doer]

You don't mind
Or do you lie about that also?