15 amp circuit - electrician advice needed

[GroErr]

Whatever you do, don't invest in any LEDs until you really know what you want. The range of efficiency you can get is HUGE, ranging from 15-65% efficiency depending on how much you're willing to pay (with diminishing returns). HPS is 35% efficient fresh. You will use MORE electricity than HPS and produce MORE watts of heat if you use a less efficient lamp than HPS.

The truth is that leds in area51 are estimated to be 34% efficiency at the current and temperature they're being run at. That's good, but probably won't really put a dent in your problem.

The new top bins in the new line of cree cxb cobs can easily get 50% efficiency, and just came out so the price will likely go down quickly. Your girlfriend will be so pissed (i think) if you get some leds just to tell her a few minutes later that the LEDs suck and you need new leds, or to go back to HPS!.

You make a good point and I think at some point COB designs will surpass some of the current high end commercial panels, but it's not all about technical efficiency. Panel design, spectrum and mix all play into it. Otherwise how do you explain this if hps is technically more efficient than Apache:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/apache-a...-blue-dream-grow.813412/page-69#post-10934794

In that side by side with Apache AT600 against high end 1000w hps, the end results were almost identical weight using much less power, and better quality/lab results for the LED buds. He had to beef up the cooling simply because of the hps.being in the room (separated by short walls so heat was an issue under both lights).

 

[churchhaze]

That's definitely true as well. Maybe it's the spectrum or the fact that half of HPS light has to be reflected down (except for vert growers), which means some light is lost in the reflector.

My main point is to not rush in to "Leds". I've seen a lot of people lumping all leds together, but most products will be utter crap. He should definitely take some time reading through threads in the LED section before deciding to spend a ton of money. Most people looking to switch to leds simply don't have the budget to get quality and will insist on getting bullshit.

Whatever you do, stay away from overpriced, overdriven, undercooled epistar square eggs!

You make a good point and I think at some point COB designs will surpass some of the current high end commercial panels, but it's not all about technical efficiency. Panel design, spectrum and mix all play into it. Otherwise how do you explain this if hps is technically more efficient than Apache:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/apache-a...-blue-dream-grow.813412/page-69#post-10934794

In that side by side with Apache AT600 against high end 1000w hps, the end results were almost identical weight using much less power, and better quality/lab results for the LED buds. He had to beef up the cooling simply because of the hps.being in the room (separated by short walls so heat was an issue under both lights).

 

[jarvild]

Wow $2500 ?

 

[GroErr]

That's definitely true as well. Maybe it's the spectrum or the fact that half of HPS light has to be reflected down (except for vert growers), which means some light is lost in the reflector.

My main point is to not rush in to "Leds". I've seen a lot of people lumping all leds together, but most products will be utter crap. He should definitely take some time reading through threads in the LED section before deciding to spend a ton of money. Most people looking to switch to leds simply don't have the budget to get quality and will insist on getting bullshit.

Whatever you do, stay away from overpriced, overdriven, undercooled epistar square eggs!

Absolutely, I hope I've gotten that point across in all my posts here. High-end/proven brands or DIY COBs. I have direct experience with low end LED's and fully documented grows showing how bad they are compared to other techs. I still use some low end LED's for vegging but would never recommend them for flowering.

 

[rkymtnman]

You make a good point and I think at some point COB designs will surpass some of the current high end commercial panels, but it's not all about technical efficiency. Panel design, spectrum and mix all play into it. Otherwise how do you explain this if hps is technically more efficient than Apache:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/apache-a...-blue-dream-grow.813412/page-69#post-10934794

In that side by side with Apache AT600 against high end 1000w hps, the end results were almost identical weight using much less power, and better quality/lab results for the LED buds. He had to beef up the cooling simply because of the hps.being in the room (separated by short walls so heat was an issue under both lights).

my only concern/question is how come he/she could get almost 1gpw with the LED and only 0.5gpw with the HPS.

 

[GroErr]

Wow $2500 ?

Yeah, that one can be had for about $2,000 with a discount code. The higher end panels run ~$3/watt, DIY COBs can range from $2-$2.50/watt depending on design and brand. If you're in an area where power is expensive though, the payback is there. You just pay more up-front and reduce your operational costs to pay for it. The old pay me now, or pay me later applies...

 

[GroErr]

my only concern/question is how come he/she could get almost 1gpw with the LED and only 0.5gpw with the HPS.

He used the same methods and was not new to hps, he had switched away from it a long time ago. It was a straight-up and organic grow, keep that in mind. He wasn't going strictly for numbers, just comparing side-by-side grows using one grow method/style, same environment, different lights. A valid test imo and excellent documentation (long thread but it's all there).

 

[rkymtnman]

He used the same methods and was not new to hps, he had switched away from it a long time ago. It was a straight-up and organic grow, keep that in mind. He wasn't going strictly for numbers, just comparing side-by-side grows using one grow method/style, same environment, different lights. A valid test imo and excellent documentation (long thread but it's all there).

I have an LED so I'm not knocking them at all. But to only get a half-gram/watt is pretty weak. Had he gotten close to a 1000 grams then that's a lot of grows you have to do with the LED to make up for the difference. Just my two cents...

 

[churchhaze]

Obviously there is no proof of this yet, but with the new underdriven cxb designs DIYers will be working on in the next few weeks, there's no doubt we'll start seeing people making ridiculous claims like 1.5g/w.

It's so easy to reach 50% efficiency now with top bin cxb. You don't have to under-drive it nearly as much as cxa, so startup cost is actually reduced!

 

[jarvild]

I guess I live in an area with cheap rates a little less than 10 cents an KW. I believe LEDs will be the way to go in the future but I'm not ready to make that plunge yet .

 

[churchhaze]

I guess I live in an area with cheap rates a little less than 10 cents an KW. I believe LEDs will be the way to go in the future but I'm not ready to make that plunge yet .

 

[jarvild]

I think we'll need a longer one

 

[GroErr]

I have an LED so I'm not knocking them at all. But to only get a half-gram/watt is pretty weak. Had he gotten close to a 1000 grams then that's a lot of grows you have to do with the LED to make up for the difference. Just my two cents...

Yeah but that grow/comparison was not about hitting numbers, it was about setting up an environment where all variables other than the lights were the same and seeing the results. 1gpw with hps is certainly attainable but I rarely see those numbers in straight-up/organic grows. Most I've seen around that range are using commercial strains, hydro and SCROG or vertical.

 

[jarvild]

My bills are still over $ 500 a month

 

[Midwest Weedist]

Whatever you do, don't invest in any LEDs until you really know what you want. The range of efficiency you can get is HUGE, ranging from 15-65% efficiency depending on how much you're willing to pay (with diminishing returns). HPS is 35% efficient fresh. You will use MORE electricity than HPS and produce MORE watts of heat if you use a less efficient lamp than HPS. Almost all the epistar shit you can find on amazon is 25-30% efficient.

The truth is that leds in area51 are only estimated to be 34% efficiency at the current and temperature they're being run at. That's good, but probably won't really put a dent in your problem.

The new top bins in the new line of cree cxb cobs can easily get 50% efficiency, and just came out so the price will likely go down quickly. Your girlfriend will be so pissed (i think) if you get some leds just to tell her a few minutes later that the LEDs suck and you need new leds, or to go back to HPS!.

Thank you for that. That's exactly what I needed to hear. You're exactly right too haha, I think I'd be sleeping on the couch with my plants if I did buy a new light. One day when the price drops on a really nice model, and I'll be all over it.
I had no idea about the different varying efficiency levels of the different leds. I mean I assumed there would be a difference in the upper models and the lower models in efficiency, but the numbers you gave me were way higher than what I assumed.