ph! ph! My kingdom for steady ph!

[Al B. Fuct]

I made absolutely no personal attack on you. I criticised what you claimed, not you. Kindly point out where you think you were personally attacked.

If you think that was a 'major rant', you don't read me often. I only write what I need to but if that takes a few keystrokes, so be it.

I've also made no claim that tapwater is universally good- if you read the comment just before your last post, I went down the road of dodgy tapwater in banana republics. I have so far only said that tapwater from modern treatment facilities is highly unlikely to be a cause of problems in a grow op. It certainly is not universally BAD, BAD, BAD!!, requiring RO to successfully grow plants.

 

[fitzyno1]

I think Al said if you can drink the water, you can grow in it.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

no-one seems to know why.

It's usually due to poor water treatment, which can allow pathogens like E.coli, cryptosporidum and giardia into the tapwater. All of those will cause gastric problems.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

I think Al said if you can drink the water, you can grow in it.

Yep. That's the nut.

 

[fitzyno1]

It's usually due to poor water treatment, which can allow pathogens like E.coli, cryptosporidum and giardia into the tapwater. All of those will cause gastric problems.

Thanks Al, right thats subject's closed. LOL

 

[SmallPowerzzz]

Al you are awesome!!!

unless there's some root disease in the plants

Here's the 411. I have fungus bugs (and too much salt). Went to the hydro shop and bought some vectobac to kill them with. Damn bugs I thought they were just fruit flies.

concerned about the bleach

Don't worry I didn't use it I took your advise and started using tap water.
so once all these bugs are dead and all the salt is out of the system it should be green pastures.

auto ph adjuster $200

Yowsers, I can not afford that. I'm using the ph liquid tester, I know it not super accurate, but again this is my first shot through.

PRIT-tee pricey for something you can do by hand. If it works, great, but pH shouldn't wander so much that correction is a task worthy of automation. If you can't look in on your op once a day, I can see it, but $200 is still a motza for the task.

I try to check my plants everyday 2 times a day, ph test etc... I also have been using Kelp spray on the leaves.

Only an oz on this budstalk

Lol not a green thumber, I have fungus GNATS !!! LOL

pH should NOT rise as plants use nutes.

I hope mine starts to stabilize after these measures.

GET A GOOD METER!

Any suggestions or links to products would be cool (I am just a poor little girl

I think Al said if you can drink the water, you can grow in it.

He has stated that to me numerous times. Unfortunately our city water tastes like poop lemonade, good thing plants can't taste. Or I would have some pretty sour buds...Wait will my bud taste like poop lemonade??

I have also increased my res to 24L and thinking about going higher as well. Hoping that will help rinse salt from the medium kinda like flushing it through I guess.

Once again thanks for all the info. This has surprisingly turned into a pretty funny thread. I also appreciate everyones elses input so far. Keep feeding my brain.

 

[SmallPowerzzz]

Al you are right, I made a blanket statement about tap water being bad, But that was no reason to go into a MAJOR rant with a personal attack against me. Now that you have made a blanket statement about all tap water being good, I guess it all pertains to yourself as well.

Drama I've only talked to Al a little bit but in that time he has done nothing but offer sound advice on nearly every topic so far. I'm pretty sure that he meant no personal insult, it's just information and were all learning. I find that emotions regarding information cloud the subject.

Everyone has different opinions and sometimes it gets hard to syphon through what's real and what's just garbage. Example baking soda, and carbonated water. Both of those were bad advice passed down.

Just keep your head up everyone has an opinion. Thanks for responding.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

D

Just keep your head up everyone has an opinion.

See, that's the difference- I don't offer opinions. Anything that I do in my op or any comment or recommendation I make will be based in sound, replicatable science. My opinion (and in fact anything about me in general), is pretty irrelevant.

Here's the 411. I have fungus bugs

Bingo. Remember, I said:

If a tank is mixed properly, water first, add nutes, then correct pH, it ought to stay right where it is unless there's some root disease in the plants or rockwool in the system.

'Fungus gnats' aka scarid flies are attracted to moisture and eat fungus they find in or near roots and spread it around because, like all flies, they regurgitate a bit of their last meal to take a bite of their next. It's the fungal growth that messes with the pH. If gnats become well established, their larvae will burrow into and destroy roots.

Deal with these characters by trapping the adults with sticky card traps placed on the top of the media near the plant stem. Control fungus with 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L in your tanks, applied every 3-4 days. Removes the food source for gnats. The sticky cards will trap the adults before they lay eggs in your rootball.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

BTW, if you have other things in your spanking-new hydro op you have queries about, check out this thread: Al B. FAQt

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Yowsers, I can not afford that. I'm using the ph liquid tester, I know it not super accurate, but again this is my first shot through.

If you can't afford a meter, mix for pH5.9-6.0. Considering the amount of error in colour-match pH tests, that's about as finely as you will be able to resolve the reading anyway and should prevent you going into the evil range outside of 5.5-6.3.

Make it a priority to buy a pH meter ASAP. Accurate pH & nutrient strength metering really are important to successful hydro growing. Once you have good meters, they will last you some years. The yield advantage of hydroponics will soon justify the cost of the meters.

I try to check my plants everyday 2 times a day, ph test etc... I also have been using Kelp spray on the leaves.

Heh, yes, new growers DO look in on their plants often. New growers as a result often kill plants with kindness.

I'm not a fan of frequently spraying plants in a grow room. It's usually a battle to keep humidity down to levels that don't promote mould and bud rot. I've been known to foliar feed some outdoor plants in my gardens, but that's a totally different environment to an indoor grow op. Kelp spray is OK in your indoor op, but keep it to 1x/week, during lights off, preferably in the hour just before lights on.

Any suggestions or links to products would be cool (I am just a poor little girl

Bluelab's Truncheon nutrient meter is as good as they get, no moving parts, not so much as a power switch. The display is accomplished with a row of LEDs on a calibrated scale. Auto power-on and off. Lasts YEARS. I have one that's 8 years old. Unfortunately, Bluelab's new pHTruncheon meter doesn't get the same tick of approval. I had 3 of them go bad in a month before I gave up on them.

I use Eutech pH meters. Whatever meter you buy, make sure it is waterproof. Should have rubber o-ring seals on the battery cover and pH meters should have a seal on the user replaceable probe tip. Don't bother with pH meters that do not have a user-replaceable tip- it will last 2 years and you will need a new tip. If your meter's tip isn't user-replaceable, you will be without the meter for a while when it is off at the mfr's service department getting a new tip.

When you buy your pH meter, be sure to buy pH 4.0 & 7.0 reference solutions. Test the meter with these known-value solutions before each use and calibrate the meter per the mfr's instructions.

I have also increased my res to 24L and thinking about going higher as well. Hoping that will help rinse salt from the medium kinda like flushing it through I guess.

How many plants is that rez supporting?

If you want to remove any unwanted stuff from your media, flush the pots from the top with large volumes of plain water (no nutes) which has been adjusted to pH 5.8. Dump a few litres through each pot. Discard the runoff.

 

[lorenzo08]

here's my theory. feel free to prove the noob wrong.

with hydroponics, the plants can only handle so much nutes in the water (ppm). with filtered water, you're adding the exact nutes you need and can max out the ppm without doing damage. if you use tap water, usually with 300ppm or more of impurities already in it, that puts it over the plants max ppm and harms it. that is the problem I had with my first batch of hydro water from my test grow. nutes were to strong in tap water. mr clean auto dry filter!! that's what I'm trying now. should be 15ppm after filtered.

 

[fitzyno1]

impurities?
When change tanks, subtract the 300ppm tape water from the res. soup and your left the ppm of nute mix.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

here's my theory. feel free to prove the noob wrong.

with hydroponics, the plants can only handle so much nutes in the water (ppm)

Not quite. You presume that all compounds which cause electrical conductivity in water are equally used by the plant as nutrients and thus can cause nute burns. Not so.

Pure water is electrically rather resistive. Adding ionic compounds to pure water causes it to conduct electricity more readily. A TDS (Total Dissolved Solids/Salts) meter measures the total conductivity of a solution and gives you a relative number in ppm, EC or some other scale.

TDS meters tell you about the conductivity of the solution but does not discern whether that conductivity is as a result of the presence of some ionic compounds such as Mg & Ca which do not behave in photosynthesis as do the major nutrients N, P & K. Mg & Ca are elements, commonly referred to 'micronutrients,' that the plant does require but in very small quantities, to process major nutes such as N, P & K.

Plants don't need much Mg & Ca, less than they'll get from 'hard' tapwater, but they ignore the excess, up to a point. In extreme cases, such as where Mg & Ca have been added via a supplement such as CalMag or Epsom Salts (Mg only), where many thousands of times the amount of Mg &/or Ca as found in tapwater is introduced, it is possible to induce toxicity. However, the amounts of Mg & Ca found in tapwater won't come anywhere near toxicity, nor will those nutrients cause a nutrient burn as will excessive N.

The short of it is that you can ignore the conductivity caused by Mg & Ca which are inducing a reading in your tapwater. If you want 1400ppm nutrient strength and you get 300ppm out of the tap from dissolved Mg & Ca, mix for 1700.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

impurities?

The compounds in the tapwater causing the readings are Ca & Mg. While quite technically, not being water, these are impurities, but they are not toxins. The plant absolutely needs these elements (and so do people). If your water or media don't have any, you will need to add them from a supplement. Grows running on distilled, RO, etc. water often become Ca &/or Mg deficient and require supplements.

Lots of money is made playing on people's fear of the unknown. A little learning about what really is in your water goes a long way. Many local governments publish water quality information. Check the web for your local water supplier's website.

 

[H&D]

here's my theory. feel free to prove the noob wrong.

with hydroponics, the plants can only handle so much nutes in the water (ppm). with filtered water, you're adding the exact nutes you need and can max out the ppm without doing damage. if you use tap water, usually with 300ppm or more of impurities already in it, that puts it over the plants max ppm and harms it. that is the problem I had with my first batch of hydro water from my test grow. nutes were to strong in tap water. mr clean auto dry filter!! that's what I'm trying now. should be 15ppm after filtered.

I wanna know how you worked out that the extra 300ppm from tap water done the damage ?
When I learnt math I learnt that 2 numbers combined add to a total ...
If your tapp water is 300ppm and you add nutes then test you dont go ok now i have 1340 ppm plus 300 ppm of tap water its a total equaling 1340

 

[Al B. Fuct]

...1340? who said 1340? huh?

 

[gnetics]

AL, thanks for pointing out the Bluelab's Truncheone! lol i had seen that ph tester in a picture couple weeks ago and was unable to remember the name! awesome just orderd one and finishing orderin my hydro supplies!...

Hope u get rid of those lil pesky bugs and ur ladies grow nice.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Gee, I hope you read me carefully... There is a nutrient Truncheon and a pHTruncheon. The nutrient Truncheon is great, the pHT is rubbish. If you ordered a pHT, quick- cancel!

I'm not the one with the bugs, either.

 

[OnSolomonsGrave]

Water differs from many locations, always check your local municipalities for read outs on your water. anything lower then 200 you should be pretty decent. Some people's tap comes out at over 500 ppm and thats pretty shitty water to grow with. This isn't for you al, you know your shit obviously, but i thought you negelected that small point, with your truths about tap.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Some people's tap comes out at over 500 ppm and thats pretty shitty water to grow with.

Well, if it's mostly Ca & Mg and perhaps a little Fe causing that 500ppm reading, I wouldn't sweat it. If it's salinity, then it's a problem.

If you are getting your water from a modern water treatment facility, not only should you not worry, you ought to easily be able to get water analysis data, may even be posted on a website as we speak.

If your water comes from a bore, you can pay to have your water analysed. If you're on bore water, you're probably in a rural or semi-rural location and may qualify for free or reduced cost assistance with water analysis from a County Extension agency or university.