Meet the progressive that's going to hand Joe Manchin his ass in the Democratic primary; Paula Jean

[Padawanbater2]

So tell us again how great your team is and why the fuck I should blindly support a failing team that even when they are in the majority can't seem to get things passed?

They could only get Romneycare passed, even with a supermajority.. They didn't prosecute a single person responsible for the financial crash.. And under their leadership since the late 1970s, the poor and middle-class haven't experienced any economic gains. Who fights for these people if we have two parties who represent Wall Street, corporate, and special interests?

These are the "progressives"? This is the "opposition"? This is the party we're supposed to be enthusiastic about voting for?

Embarrassing.

 

[ttystikk]

They could only get Romneycare passed, even with a supermajority.. They didn't prosecute a single person responsible for the financial crash.. And under their leadership since the late 1970s, the poor and middle-class haven't experienced any economic gains. Who fights for these people if we have two parties who represent Wall Street, corporate, and special interests?

These are the "progressives"? This is the "opposition"? This is the party we're supposed to be enthusiastic about voting for?

Embarrassing.

This is why having a strong left is good for Democrats and indeed for democracy.

Neither of us are 'socialists' and we certainly aren't 'Communists'. It's amazing how much resistance there is to even the idea of a left of center Social Democrat. That's very telling, in terms of who's actually running our political system.

Former President and Nobel Peace prize recipient Jimmy Carter thinks we live in a corporate directed oligopoly and the America is no longer a democracy.

https://mic.com/articles/125813/jim...ica-is-no-longer-a-democracy-now-an-oligarchy

He's been saying this for a long time, just the first page of Google results include articles from 2013.

The resistance of even the Democratic Party to any pressure to move just a little bit leftward says a lot. All one needs to do is listen.

And from @UncleBuck? Crickets. That says plenty, too.

 

[Padawanbater2]

This is why having a strong left is good for Democrats and indeed for democracy.

Unfortunately many people don't see it that way. They see our opposition to corporate representation as "helping the enemy". When we criticize Manchin for being too corporate, too right-wing and too friendly with the very same dictatorial authoritarian running our government they despise, they defend him because, hey, at least he's not a Republican... right?!

They say that shit with a serious face... Like I shouldn't be befuddled..

If most elections are seen to be between the lesser of two evils, the only effective solution is going to be to run a candidate that is seen as good. Not evil. If the choices are between 'evil' and 'hey, that's actually pretty good..', how could good lose?

 

[tangerinegreen555]

Yeah, so tell us again how well your establishmentarians are doing.
Majority of State legislatures? No
Of governorships? No
US house of Reps? No
US Senate? No
Executive? No

So tell us again how great your team is and why the fuck I should blindly support a failing team that even when they are in the majority can't seem to get things passed?

You're a shit talker with a big mouth, Buck. You're trying to run off everyone who doesn't agree with you, whether they're on the left or the right and that's not going to get you respect, nevermind your chosen candidates in office.

Maybe it's time for a different strategy?

You see how the opposition operates. You understand gerrymandering. You understand that a 3 million vote lead doesn't necessarily win. You understand that total votes for all districts in the house are in the favor of Democrats.

You understand low information voters, fake news, right wing radio, propaganda and the internet.

You understand the ebb and flow in politics and how only once since WW Il has either party held on the presidency more than 2 terms.

You understand no more than around 50% will vote like you in an election cycle.

You clearly understand how this country has been pushed to the right since Reagan.

You understand that last November was a bizzare freakish fluke and part of a world trend (i.e. Brexit)

You're a bright guy, so why do you blame the Democrats exclusively for failing? Maybe the opposition does a better job of pushing their ideas on the masses of the misinformed. I hate Frank Luntz, but I damn sure respect his ability. There is such a thing as the other side. They are currently at their peak. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[Padawanbater2]

You understand that last November was a bizzare freakish fluke and part of a world trend (i.e. Brexit)

You're a bright guy, so why do you blame the Democrats exclusively for failing? Maybe the opposition does a better job of pushing their ideas on the masses of the misinformed. I hate Frank Luntz, but I damn sure respect his ability. There is such a thing as the other side. They are currently at their peak. Nothing lasts forever.

I don't understand how you don't blame the Democrats for failing. We've just witnessed 8 years of abject progressive failure, a shift even further right on the Overton window, and a personal confirmation of the corruption inherent in the American system of politics. As Tty said, even when we have control, we don't seem to get what we want passed.. It really weighs on you.. why even support these people if, even when we hold total control, we don't get what we want.. I think it really highlights why so many people around the country are so frustrated with government, and why they've began to question so many of the fundamental institutions that have helped hold society together for so many years.

Because of Democratic failure, we now have Trump.. We need to stop voting for the best of the worst and start voting for the best of the best.

 

[ttystikk]

Unfortunately many people don't see it that way. They see our opposition to corporate representation as "helping the enemy". When we criticize Manchin for being too corporate, too right-wing and too friendly with the very same dictatorial authoritarian running our government they despise, they defend him because, hey, at least he's not a Republican... right?!

They say that shit with a serious face... Like I shouldn't be befuddled..

If most elections are seen to be between the lesser of two evils, the only effective solution is going to be to run a candidate that is seen as good. Not evil. If the choices are between 'evil' and 'hey, that's actually pretty good..', how could good lose?

Good loses a lot in the real world. The difference is that good never gives up.

The corporations and those who kneel and service them aren't going to give up easily. @UncleBuck acts like he's one of these.

This is going to be a long fight, but the cause of citizen supremacy in government representation is good, just and right.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply supporting corporate driven oligarchy or fascism, pure and simple.

It will be a nasty uphill battle until the tipping point is reached, after which everyone will wonder, 'WTF were we thinking?!'

 

[UncleBuck]

you guys talk such a big game but have literally nothing to show for it.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

I don't understand how you don't blame the Democrats for failing.

Sometimes, like in sports, it's not one team losing as much as the other team winning.

Is a glass of water half full or half empty?

You're looking for perfection in an imperfect country and overlook the complexities.

And, historically, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is very fucking unlikely to change.

If two people are running for office, you pick one or you don't and become disenfranchised.

Disenfranchised doesn't do anything to help anyone. If you don't even have a foot in the door, you're fucking yourself and have no voice at all.

 

[ttystikk]

You see how the opposition operates. You understand gerrymandering. You understand that a 3 million vote lead doesn't necessarily win. You understand that total votes for all districts in the house are in the favor of Democrats.

You understand low information voters, fake news, right wing radio, propaganda and the internet.

You understand the ebb and flow in politics and how only once since WW Il has either party held on the presidency more than 2 terms.

You understand no more than around 50% will vote like you in an election cycle.

You clearly understand how this country has been pushed to the right since Reagan.

You understand that last November was a bizzare freakish fluke and part of a world trend (i.e. Brexit)

You're a bright guy, so why do you blame the Democrats exclusively for failing? Maybe the opposition does a better job of pushing their ideas on the masses of the misinformed. I hate Frank Luntz, but I damn sure respect his ability. There is such a thing as the other side. They are currently at their peak. Nothing lasts forever.

You said yourself they've been pushing things to the right since Reagan. I don't see that changing with the Democratic Party stuck in its current position of kneeling and sucking the corporate money cock.

A new deal is in order and in the absence of FDR it's up to us to push for the representation we want. That's what I'm doing and I won't tolerate being called a 'traitor' for refusing to go along with an establishment party machine that hasn't had my interests at heart for my entire adult lifetime.

This is about making the Democratic Party Listen to the will of the People, or becoming irrelevant. I expect it will take awhile but at least I'll be fighting for MY rights and needs, as opposed to a neoliberal corporate machine that wants more profits for itself and 'aggressive policing' for all those who disagree.

 

[ttystikk]

Sometimes, like in sports, it's not one team losing as much as the other team winning.

Is a glass of water half full or half empty?

You're looking for perfection in an imperfect country and overlook the complexities.

And, historically, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is very fucking unlikely to change.

If two people are running for office, you pick one or you don't and become disenfranchised.

Disenfranchised doesn't do anything to help anyone. If you don't even have a foot in the door, you're fucking yourself and have no voice at all.

That kind of thinking has led us to the shameful political situation we see today.

Time for another paradigm.

 

[Padawanbater2]

You're looking for perfection in an imperfect country and overlook the complexities.

Could you be specific? What complexities do you feel I'm overlooking?

And, historically, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is very fucking unlikely to change.

Are you saying that you believe whoever attains power, regardless of their beliefs, opinions, or viewpoints, they will likely be corrupt, just by the nature of their position?

If two people are running for office, you pick one or you don't and become disenfranchised.

Disenfranchised doesn't do anything to help anyone. If you don't even have a foot in the door, you're fucking yourself and have no voice at all.

But I already feel like I don't have a voice. I already don't have a foot in the door, even when the people I vote for win, and control the entire government.. So what does it even matter?

We have a legitimate chance to finally change this. Stop voting for the best of the worst.

 

[ttystikk]

you guys talk such a big game but have literally nothing to show for it.

Neither do you.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

You said yourself they've been pushing things to the right since Reagan. I don't see that changing with the Democratic Party stuck in its current position of kneeling and sucking the corporate money cock.

A new deal is in order and in the absence of FDR it's up to us to push for the representation we want. That's what I'm doing and I won't tolerate being called a 'traitor' for refusing to go along with an establishment party machine that hasn't had my interests at heart for my entire adult lifetime.

This is about making the Democratic Party Listen to the will of the People, or becoming irrelevant. I expect it will take awhile but at least I'll be fighting for MY rights and needs, as opposed to a neoliberal corporate machine that wants more profits for itself and 'aggressive policing' for all those who disagree.

That kind of thinking has led us to the shameful political situation we see today.

Time for another paradigm.

So what you're saying is, even if the Democrats had won BOTH elections that they lost by EC only, we would be pretty much exactly where we are right now?

Replace the Bush 8 yrs. with Al Gore, and Hillary beats Trump with the 3 million vote lead and we'd be exactly where we are right now?

Sounds like that's what you saying to me, no?

 

[Padawanbater2]

Neither do you.

...he is right though.. we don't have a neoliberal political strategy that lost more than a thousand Democratic seats across the country, the majority of governorships, state legislatures, the house, the senate, the presidency and the supreme court... We absolutely don't have that to show for ourselves..

We do on the other hand have actual representation

 

[ttystikk]

So what you're saying is, even if the Democrats had won BOTH elections that they lost by EC only, we would be pretty much exactly where we are right now?

Replace the Bush 8 yrs. with Al Gore, and Hillary beats Trump with the 3 million vote lead and we'd be exactly where we are right now?

Sounds like that's what you saying to me, no?

I'll speak only for myself; I don't think they'd have repealed Citizens United. I don't think we'd have a better version of Health Care. I don't think we'd have stronger unions. I don't think we'd have an answer to mass incarceration. Neoliberalism is very much an establishment Democratic Party idea, then and now.

I'd love to be wrong- but there's another axiom at work; we are in the real world, where neither Gore nor Mrs Clinton won. I don't think those outcomes are accidents; I think they're indicative of the fact that the Democratic Party has been doing a shitty job of representing the average American for a long time and takes a beating for it on the regular.

The paradigm is the problem, not just the party in charge.

 

[ttystikk]

...he is right though.. we don't have a neoliberal political strategy that lost more than a thousand Democratic seats across the country, the majority of governorships, state legislatures, the house, the senate, the presidency and the supreme court... We absolutely don't have that to show for ourselves..

We do on the other hand have actual representation

And indeed we have nothing to lose.

 

[tangerinegreen555]

I'll down for myself; I don't think they'd have repealed Citizens United. I don't think we'd have a better version of Health Care. I don't think we'd have stronger unions. I don't think we'd have an answer to mass incarceration.

A lot of that was SCOTUS. Different judges rule different ways. No W., no Citizen's United maybe?

 

[tangerinegreen555]

And indeed we have nothing to lose.

except more seats, more SCOTUS seats and being pushed further off center?

If we were a centrist country right now, would it be a better place?

 

[SneekyNinja]

Pair of delusional whiners think they can convince everyone to vote their "party" even though they can't convince liberals on a fucking pot site...

(Removed an unnecessarily rude "wankers" from middle)

 

[Fogdog]

you mean my 1988 toyota pickup?

why do you hate bicycles?