Nazi and KKK Terrorists denied the annual right to terrorize Charlottesville

[Fogdog]

Fascists came to town yesterday. Their leader is some shit who is running for office in the state of Washington. Patriot's Prayer and Proud Boys once again were stymied behind protective police barricades.

Yes, antifa were there, many more were "members of labor unions, immigrant rights advocates, democratic socialists and other groups". about 2000 people in all compared to the 400 fascists, which is why the fascists couldn't march in our streets and stayed behind protective police lines.

This is what it's come to. Fascists show up, are wildly outnumbered by counter-demonstrators and the peace is maintained this way:

Yes, it got rowdy. Yes, bottles were thrown at police - bodyguards for Proud Boys. Yes, some counter protesters were injured by police who shot flash grenades at them. Apparently a reporter was hurt by a thrown object. End result: Portland once again told fascists they aren't safe on our streets.

https://www.columbian.com/news/2018/aug/04/police-will-screen-for-weapons-at-portland-rally/

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

i think it was a mixed message, the people of Portland told them what they think, but the city government seemed to be telling them the exact opposite.
i think everyone has the right to peaceful demonstration, even people i don't like. however, showing up in helmets and body armor doesn't make it seem like you showed up for a peaceful protest.
my real question is what do you intend to do about these people? they have these attitudes and beliefs that are antithetical to yours, and i'm sure they abhor you as much as you despise them. so, are you going to segregate them from the rest of society? are you just going to kill them? make them wear shirts with red stripes? just what's the plan? if you stop them from protesting, then they turn their energies elsewhere, like building bombs, and beating up people they don't like.
you have to start with their children. teach them in school that everything their parents believe is wrong. let them get to know mexican kids, black kids, handicapped kids. show them that they aren't inferior, that they aren't any kind of "enemy"....teach them the truth....the real truth, not biased to either side. give them the facts, and answer their questions as truthfully as possible.
the current generation is lost, but the next is salvageable.

 

[dandyrandy]

If I was allowing someone to come on my property and protest a ruling by the government or church or business ok fine. But to allow lies and falsehoods that permeate society allows it to become as phucked up as it is now. We have people that can't look at life rationally. Look at madrasas. If you start very early you can program people quite easily. Churches are a good example. Sports another. So now we have a generation of Qanon Nazi techie dips that are really redneck methheads? We went from Archie Bunker Meathead to methheads in one generation.

 

[Fogdog]

i think it was a mixed message, the people of Portland told them what they think, but the city government seemed to be telling them the exact opposite.
i think everyone has the right to peaceful demonstration, even people i don't like. however, showing up in helmets and body armor doesn't make it seem like you showed up for a peaceful protest.
my real question is what do you intend to do about these people? they have these attitudes and beliefs that are antithetical to yours, and i'm sure they abhor you as much as you despise them. so, are you going to segregate them from the rest of society? are you just going to kill them? make them wear shirts with red stripes? just what's the plan? if you stop them from protesting, then they turn their energies elsewhere, like building bombs, and beating up people they don't like.
you have to start with their children. teach them in school that everything their parents believe is wrong. let them get to know mexican kids, black kids, handicapped kids. show them that they aren't inferior, that they aren't any kind of "enemy"....teach them the truth....the real truth, not biased to either side. give them the facts, and answer their questions as truthfully as possible.
the current generation is lost, but the next is salvageable.

Portland government had to give those shits the permit and Police had to be there to keep the peace. Because government couldn't prevent the rally, the good people of Portland showed up to stop from them safely walking our streets. As it should be everywhere in the US.

It's not a matter of abhorring their message. The matter is their message which is male white supremacy over all else. They have killed and spread fear wherever they go. To a black person, a jew, a Hispanic person, their message is the reality of life in America.

This movement is filled with people who glorify violence. Last year a white supremacist killed two people who were protecting girls on a public transit train from his abuse. He was enraged that one of the girls was wearing a hijab and they retreated as far away from him as they could get when three men stood between him and them. He slashed and killed two of them. Days later the same fascists groups that the murderer was a member of showed up to demonstrate in Portland. They were completely unsympathetic to the government's request to delay their rally. What I'm trying to say is you misinterpret the meaning behind these rallies. These are not protests against anything. They are not advocating redress of a wrong or rights denied, they advocate denial of rights of others and display every intention of using violence to do so.

I guess you are agreeing with ttystik that suppressing these assholes only makes them more active. Not so. The evidence is that they are on the back foot. They have been shown to be murderers from past rallies. They have learned to stay behind police barricades. They are being denied permits more than before. Vigorous and stern opposition to fascists is working. Where in the world or at any time has it been shown that tolerating rallies and marches by fascists ends with the decline of fascism? Tell me and I'll reconsider my belief that fascists must be vigorously opposed.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Portland government had to give those shits the permit and Police had to be there to keep the peace. Because government couldn't prevent the rally, the good people of Portland showed up to stop from them safely walking our streets. As it should be everywhere in the US.

It's not a matter of abhorring their message. The matter is their message which is male white supremacy over all else. They have killed and spread fear wherever they go. To a black person, a jew, a Hispanic person, their message is the reality of life in America.

This movement is filled with people who glorify violence. Last year a white supremacist killed two people who were protecting girls on a public transit train from his abuse. He was enraged that one of the girls was wearing a hijab and they retreated as far away from him as they could get when three men stood between him and them. He slashed and killed two of them. Days later the same fascists groups that the murderer was a member of showed up to demonstrate in Portland. They were completely unsympathetic to the government's request to delay their rally. What I'm trying to say is you misinterpret the meaning behind these rallies. These are not protests against anything. They are not advocating redress of a wrong or rights denied, they advocate denial of rights of others and display every intention of using violence to do so.

I guess you are agreeing with ttystik that suppressing these assholes only makes them more active. Not so. The evidence is that they are on the back foot. They have been shown to be murderers from past rallies. They have learned to stay behind police barricades. They are being denied permits more than before. Vigorous and stern opposition to fascists is working. Where in the world or at any time has it been shown that tolerating rallies and marches by fascists ends with the decline of fascism? Tell me and I'll reconsider my belief that fascists must be vigorously opposed.

i don't want to change your belief that they have to be rigorously opposed. i don't like them one bit more than you do. i don't want to hear their fucked up opinions.
my problem is that everyone is guaranteed free speech. even people we think are hateful assholes. the rules are the rules for everyone, or they don't mean anything. i think a lot of people would be amenable to changing the rules, in the proper way, so that the rules don't cover their hateful shit. i'd be happy to vote for that. anyone feel like writing up a bill?

 

[ttystikk]

I hear you but think public safety also has to be a concern. Groups showing up for their protest that are decked out in riot gear show that they came for a fight.

And that's why any illegal or violent behavior needs to be sanctioned to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[ttystikk]

Fascists came to town yesterday. Their leader is some shit who is running for office in the state of Washington. Patriot's Prayer and Proud Boys once again were stymied behind protective police barricades.

Yes, antifa were there, many more were "members of labor unions, immigrant rights advocates, democratic socialists and other groups". about 2000 people in all compared to the 400 fascists, which is why the fascists couldn't march in our streets and stayed behind protective police lines.

This is what it's come to. Fascists show up, are wildly outnumbered by counter-demonstrators and the peace is maintained this way:

Yes, it got rowdy. Yes, bottles were thrown at police - bodyguards for Proud Boys. Yes, some counter protesters were injured by police who shot flash grenades at them. Apparently a reporter was hurt by a thrown object. End result: Portland once again told fascists they aren't safe on our streets.

https://www.columbian.com/news/2018/aug/04/police-will-screen-for-weapons-at-portland-rally/

Sign says, 'no weapons in the park'

Free speech is not about firepower.

Someone should tell the SCOTUS that it isn't about money, either. Alas, one fight at a time...

 

[Fogdog]

i don't want to change your belief that they have to be rigorously opposed. i don't like them one bit more than you do. i don't want to hear their fucked up opinions.
my problem is that everyone is guaranteed free speech. even people we think are hateful assholes. the rules are the rules for everyone, or they don't mean anything. i think a lot of people would be amenable to changing the rules, in the proper way, so that the rules don't cover their hateful shit. i'd be happy to vote for that. anyone feel like writing up a bill?

It's my right of free speech to stand up and voice opposition to these white supremacists. That's the law too.

They are the ones showing up with shields, armor and use poles carrying the US Flag as spears and batons. They are the ones who publicly murdered people in full view of everybody. Yet you criticize people who oppose them. You must realize that there is still much to do to make our society equal for all and these thugs advocate rolling rights backward in time. I'm not talking about trivial matters either. Hate crimes, mosque and church burnings, cops killing black men for no good reason, countless other hate crimes are comitted against minorities. The numbers are increasing too.

You don't want to hear the opinions of white supremacists? How about the black father whose has to talk about their message when his kids heard it?

Their form of speech is fighting words. It should not and is not safe to talk that way on the streets of Portland Oregon. The civil rights movement is for the rights of all of us and I stand with my black, brown, Jewish and Muslim brothers and sisters to show them they don't face those thugs alone.

 

[ttystikk]

i think it was a mixed message, the people of Portland told them what they think, but the city government seemed to be telling them the exact opposite.
i think everyone has the right to peaceful demonstration, even people i don't like. however, showing up in helmets and body armor doesn't make it seem like you showed up for a peaceful protest.
my real question is what do you intend to do about these people? they have these attitudes and beliefs that are antithetical to yours, and i'm sure they abhor you as much as you despise them. so, are you going to segregate them from the rest of society? are you just going to kill them? make them wear shirts with red stripes? just what's the plan? if you stop them from protesting, then they turn their energies elsewhere, like building bombs, and beating up people they don't like.
you have to start with their children. teach them in school that everything their parents believe is wrong. let them get to know mexican kids, black kids, handicapped kids. show them that they aren't inferior, that they aren't any kind of "enemy"....teach them the truth....the real truth, not biased to either side. give them the facts, and answer their questions as truthfully as possible.
the current generation is lost, but the next is salvageable.

That would require adequate public school funding and paying quality teachers what they're worth to society.

You know we can't do that! Might have to raise taxes and cut into corporate profits. I mean, WTF are you thinking?

 

[Fogdog]

Sign says, 'no weapons in the park'

Free speech is not about firepower.

Someone should tell the SCOTUS that it isn't about money, either. Alas, one fight at a time...

Huh? As usual you don't know what you are talking about. But that never stops you from showing your ignorance. I'll once again try to inform you of what you didn't know before you spouted off in a histrionic rant.

The reason why that park was chosen is because it is legal to carry guns in that park. Police made a big show of confiscating weapons unless the person carrying a gun had a permit for concealed carry. The fascists have learned to fear antifa and knew they were going to be outnumbered. It turned out they were, by a ratio of five to 1. So they made sure to carry guns. The police knew this and made sure the two groups didn't mix.

 

[Fogdog]

That would require adequate public school funding and paying quality teachers what they're worth to society.

You know we can't do that! Might have to raise taxes and cut into corporate profits. I mean, WTF are you thinking?

Isn't he right, though? Isn't education one of the ways out of this mess? It's working too. The millennial generation is far more open to diversity than yours.

 

[ttystikk]

Portland government had to give those shits the permit and Police had to be there to keep the peace. Because government couldn't prevent the rally, the good people of Portland showed up to stop from them safely walking our streets. As it should be everywhere in the US.

It's not a matter of abhorring their message. The matter is their message which is male white supremacy over all else. They have killed and spread fear wherever they go. To a black person, a jew, a Hispanic person, their message is the reality of life in America.

This movement is filled with people who glorify violence. Last year a white supremacist killed two people who were protecting girls on a public transit train from his abuse. He was enraged that one of the girls was wearing a hijab and they retreated as far away from him as they could get when three men stood between him and them. He slashed and killed two of them. Days later the same fascists groups that the murderer was a member of showed up to demonstrate in Portland. They were completely unsympathetic to the government's request to delay their rally. What I'm trying to say is you misinterpret the meaning behind these rallies. These are not protests against anything. They are not advocating redress of a wrong or rights denied, they advocate denial of rights of others and display every intention of using violence to do so.

I guess you are agreeing with ttystik that suppressing these assholes only makes them more active. Not so. The evidence is that they are on the back foot. They have been shown to be murderers from past rallies. They have learned to stay behind police barricades. They are being denied permits more than before. Vigorous and stern opposition to fascists is working. Where in the world or at any time has it been shown that tolerating rallies and marches by fascists ends with the decline of fascism? Tell me and I'll reconsider my belief that fascists must be vigorously opposed.

Again, you misinterpret my words; I said that meeting violence with violence isn't the answer and these latest rallies have shown me to be correct. The Nazis were outnumbered by wide margins and told they weren't welcome in no uncertain terms. Getting violent with them is only sending the message that violence is acceptable.

 

[ttystikk]

Isn't he right, though? Isn't education one of the ways out of this mess? It's working too. The millennial generation is far more open to diversity than yours.

I think you missed the sarcasm dripping from my post.

 

[ttystikk]

Huh? As usual you don't know what you are talking about. But that never stops you from showing your ignorance. I'll once again try to inform you of what you didn't know before you spouted off in a histrionic rant.

The reason why that park was chosen is because it is legal to carry guns in that park. Police made a big show of confiscating weapons unless the person carrying a gun had a permit for concealed carry. The fascists have learned to fear antifa and knew they were going to be outnumbered. It turned out they were, by a ratio of five to 1. So they made sure to carry guns. The police knew this and made sure the two groups didn't mix.

I read the sign on the barricade in the picture you posted.

Clearly weapons were not needed to send a message loud and clear that the Nazi white supremacist hate mongers are not welcome.

What else are you confused about? Funny how often you call me ignorant when you're the one who's confused.

 

[dandyrandy]

Imagine how many could have been saved by squashing this Nazi uprising in the early 30's.

 

[ttystikk]

Imagine how many could have been saved by squashing this Nazi uprising in the early 30's.

Millions.

Now we should ask the Palestinians about how much progress our 'civilised' world has really made since then.

 

[jimihendrix1]

People DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO 100% UNCONTTROLLED SPEECH. NOPE. AINT HAPPENIN.

The main example always used is??

You cant go into a movie theatre, and yell fire.

That is NOT PROTECTED SPEECH

We fought the NAZIs in WWII for a reason.
People marching in the streets, chanting NAZI shit, and inciting violence because of both their Intimidation Tactics, and Actions.

IMHO PEOPLE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO MEET THESE MOTHERFUCKERS WITH OVERWHELMING FORCE, AND VAPORIZE EM OFF THE EARTH, BECAUSE THEY ARE FOR SURE OUTNUMBERED.

LET EM KNOW IF THEY SHOW UP, WE WILL SHOW UP 1000X MORE THAN THEM.

THE REASON THE NAZIs CAME TO POWER IS BECAUSE OF WEAK SPINED MOTHER FUCKERS THAT WONT STAND UP, AND DO WhATS RIGHT FOR ALL PEOPLE.

THERES NO ROOM ON MY EARTH FOR NAZI HATE MONGERS.

I was in federal prison, and they brought a mother fucker in my cell who was in for a hate crime against a black guy, his wife, and 3 kids. 1 an infant. He and his buddies burned a cross on the yard, and started the house on fire, and almost killed a baby.

I was so fucking mad, I methodically told every black friend I had in prison, and am proud I made life living fucking hell for this cock sucker. He didn't last there long. IM married to a Filipina, and Im sure he would do the same to me if he didn't know me, and I was married to a NONWHITE.

He about shit when I told him I was married to a Filipina. He had been talking shit about how all these "Foreigners" were everywhere, and he would like to burn them out, like he did the 1s in Indiana. He wasn't the least bit sorry, and was bragging. MFer found out what was up. He started changing his story when he found out I was married to a minority.


Every American should be a NAZI HUNTER.

All of mine, and Im sure many others relatives that fought, and died fighting against these MFers.

And now they walk the streets like its something cool. A Trend. Normal

There wont be anything normal when 1 of them violates my space, I can promise you that.

 

[Fogdog]

Again, you misinterpret my words; I said that meeting violence with violence isn't the answer and these latest rallies have shown me to be correct. The Nazis were outnumbered by wide margins and told they weren't welcome in no uncertain terms. Getting violent with them is only sending the message that violence is acceptable.

I have no idea where you get this idea that Nazis weren't favored and funded by the powerful in Germany. Hitler only got 5 years for his attempt at overthrowing the government in 1921 that included deaths of four police officers and the destruction of a newspaper and hostage taking. He only served one year. Even then he had a multi-room suite with a view, a secretary and was able to have as many visitors as he wanted. This is not the treatment one gives to the leader of a suppressed political movement. Where do you think his support and the tremendous funding he received came from?

In the 1920's Nazis were supported and funded not only by grass roots members but also by wealthy German industrialists (also Henry Ford) who thought they could use them to contain communism. By the late 1920's, the Nazis had a private army that was estimated to be between 400,000 to more than a million strong. They were used to break the back of the communist movement in Germany. They had training facilities, camps, weapons, uniforms, professional military leadership, the works. They outnumbered and outgunned Germany's professional army by the time the depression hit. After that, it was the Wiemar Republic that struggled to maintain power, not Hitler.

So, just go away with this idea of a suppressed Nazi movement is why it grew.

 

[Fogdog]

Millions.

Now we should ask the Palestinians about how much progress our 'civilised' world has really made since then.

Fascists were in Portland Oregon yesterday. We faced the fuckers down. Nobody is going to walk the streets of Portland safely carrying the message of white supremacy.

 

[Fogdog]

And that's why any illegal or violent behavior needs to be sanctioned to the fullest extent of the law.

Yup.

Fascists and their advocacy of violence towards black, Latino, and Jewish people aren't welcome in Portland Oregon.