Next on stage... ... ... Rita Fang and the Alibaba QBs!

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Theres a thread going on for about 80 pages like this, are they s5 are they s6? The only way of knowing is spheretest seems to be the general conclusion. So i say sphere test the f*ck out of those boards if you feel it will help. But what are you comparing to? And all this bin stuff is tolerances and margins of percent. That can get amplified by imprecision in measuring equiment. Basicly i think its very hard from a spheretest-result to argue and prove anything definite. And you will be out of cash.
Personally im not even sure if it matters that much, mostly if your driving them hard. S5,S6, i think you get more benefit from driving any diode really soft, rather than paying more for a top diode and drive it hard.
The way it works out for me where im at:
I can get 2x288V2 hlgs for about 300€=
576 diodes, brandspanking top bin, runs about 250w normally but can technicly go to around 300w.
I can get 3xFoTop lm561C sX bin, but reasonably not less than s5. 2400 of good, not best, samsung diodes for just over 300€

If i run the hlg kit at full ill get about 300 watts, but id have to do something to cool it a bit extra.

The Fotops: if i where to run them on the same 300w itd be 100 per board, or .125 w per diode instead of .6w. Or about a 5th of max.

Even if i wanted to run nominal, or a third of max, id get about 480w out of the 3 fotop boards. And as per
https://www.samsung.com/led/support/tools/led-component-calculator/

... Id still beat the efficiency of a super topbin at around 185lums/w using the fotops and i would get +50% more power. Win-win.

Most of you guys are stateside so the calculation might be a bit different for you, might make more sense to go with the best, allways. But i feel that even if the numbers may be close, and with all the uncertainties of buying from china;
4x as many diodes, spread out over 7.5x more board area, maybe and fairly probably a bin lower, its still the better option as i can run it sodt without heatsinks and get it low down onto the cannopy so i dont lose lights.

Edit: also for Rita being strange... Im pretty sure your not the first one to bring this up with her. I did, and got similar pushback. Im pretty sure has a few dozens a day. And in the end the only way to say is by you making a spheretest. If the 80 page thread mentioned above is any indication of what she has do deal with im not surprised if she think we are timewasting dumbos that she has no time for unless we do what we all know is the only way to move such issue forward: spheretest, (or it didnt happen).
I wouldnt be surprised either if youd feel annoyed if litterally every client that contact you question the quality of your product because you are chinese. To me her reaction is not great, but i definitely think it makes sense, especially if she bought the diodes as s6.

All of what you said makes complete sense. I've heard this before. I know that I'll get better effeciency with more boards and less watts, but for my particular design more boards won't work, and only 4 boards driven @ 584watts (or 8 boards) is almost but not quite my total light needs (preferably).

About the sphere testing. I was thinking I could pop a few off and re-solder leads onto the terminals for a breadboard or protoboard type of setup so I wouldn't be trying to shove the entire qb in the sphere.

Its just on principle at this point to me. She bugged me daily to buy them. I thought I made sure to 'dot' my i's and 'cross' my t's too so there was no confusion. I told her I would have them tested and that if they tested out I'd need 120 of them. So when I get the board knowing its probably s5 just by the look and common sense about bin availability, and then address my suspicion in a professional manner as a potential big time customer only to be scolded and told I'm the dishonest one? I gave her plenty of opportunity to tell me they weren't s6 before she shipped them. Explained I was going to test. This was a lie that just kept snowballing for her and in this day and age I'm just sick of unacountability. Just say, "ya they s5." Or, "ya, they don't look top bin, let me verify." Instead she goes on the offensive. Probably a tactic popularized and now socially accepted by the Trump deniability machine. Lol but don't get me started on that hahaha...

According to the video and the various accounts of dimension differences of internal components, I'd say I definitely have C's but the S6 is where I sill think I'm coming up short.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Rita sells boards labeled lm561c s6 and they are not s6 voltage bins. Theres a guy on the DIY fb page on ritas page. Had his restored in a sphere. Apparently he has a good buddy that works for a place that has one. But they were definitely not 561c s6 diodes. Just like my strips I just got. Labeled lm301b and they are clearly SMD5630s junk. THESE CAME FROM RITA SOLD AS LM301B DIODES.
The fuckn package even says SMD5630

And 40 lm301b diodes would hold more than an amp.
View attachment 4265273 View attachment 4265274

Look like 3030 chips, but 200mA max current of LM301b would mean 40 wired in parallel would take 8A or 40 wired is series would take 200mA. Idk how those strips are wired. But if mine aren't s6 I'm betting yours arent either, or visa-versa, it's lame.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

If I had a sphere or high end testing equipment, Id make a bunch of gofundme's and set the limit to do said test at my desired amount and post them here. Everybody could pitch in for what they want while benefiting from everyone else and the guy gets to make a little for his time. I see people asking for digitized spectrums, flux, and other stuff. Hell, could run any expirements really.. Ok, I stoned

 

[Prawn Connery]

Rita sells boards labeled lm561c s6 and they are not s6 voltage bins. Theres a guy on the DIY fb page on ritas page. Had his restored in a sphere. Apparently he has a good buddy that works for a place that has one. But they were definitely not 561c s6 diodes. Just like my strips I just got. Labeled lm301b and they are clearly SMD5630s junk. THESE CAME FROM RITA SOLD AS LM301B DIODES.
The fuckn package even says SMD5630

And 40 lm301b diodes would hold more than an amp.
View attachment 4265273 View attachment 4265274

Look like 3030 chips, but 200mA max current of LM301b would mean 40 wired in parallel would take 8A or 40 wired is series would take 200mA. Idk how those strips are wired. But if mine aren't s6 I'm betting yours arent either, or visa-versa, it's lame.
View attachment 4265429

Those strips are likely 5P8S = 1A (5 x 200mA) and roughly 23V (2.87V x 8 )

 

[lukio]

pay peanuts get monkeys.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Anyone heard of "SEAL" LED's lol is this just the seal date label?




@lukio I know, this is a circus.. This is prolly racist but I wasn't expecting the deviousness thrown at me from the Asian culture. I thought this was going to go comepletely different.

And I hear what everyone is screaming, quality is expensive. But I pride myself on being resourceful and sometimes a guy can find a cheaper way to kill the mouse. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean its quality (no dig at HLG), and just because one company sells a product for a certain price doesnt mean there's not going to be competition in the marketplace. I'm sure HLG has S6 or Digikey or whoever, but I was trying to get a cheap deal on the boards knowing they were prolly S5 and after I specified S6.

 

[whytewidow]

Hi.. I see 3030 chips, 5630 are rectangular.

View attachment 4265316

Well then hopefully I got true lm301b diodes. Wonder what's the reasoning behind the smd 5630 on the label is for then.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Anyone heard of "SEAL" LED's lol is this just the seal date label?
View attachment 4265650

View attachment 4265651

@lukio I know, this is a circus.. This is prolly racist but I wasn't expecting the deviousness thrown at me from the Asian culture. I thought this was going to go comepletely different.

And I hear what everyone is screaming, quality is expensive. But I pride myself on being resourceful and sometimes a guy can find a cheaper way to kill the mouse. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean its quality (no dig at HLG), and just because one company sells a product for a certain price doesnt mean there's not going to be competition in the marketplace. I'm sure HLG has S6 or Digikey or whoever, but I was trying to get a cheap deal on the boards knowing they were prolly S5 and after I specified S6.

the asians have been making cheaper copies of things forever...i would never buy anything electronic from anyone but a reliable, reputable dealer. i'm sure there are some good products on ali baba, but i'm also sure that for every one good product, there are 99 pieces of shit represented as just as good or better....unless you know for sure what you're looking at, and trust the vendor to deliver what they advertise...just stay the hell away from them

 

[whytewidow]

Those strips are likely 5P8S = 1A (5 x 200mA) and roughly 23V (2.87V x 8 )

Thays what it says on the strip. 8s5p but it also says vero1 on the strip. And SMD5630 on the package. So I have no idea what they are. But either way they are only being used for veg. Plus I have more on the way. They have alternating diodes between 2700k, 3000k, 4000k split over 40 diodes. And I got them super cheap. But the guy on Facebook tested two boards. Both qb288 from hlg and one from rita. They were way different in test results. He posted them. And then his entire post disappeared. Meaning it was deleted. And hes no longer part of the private page anymore. He was also deleted from the group.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Thays what it says on the strip. 8s5p but it also says vero1 on the strip. And SMD5630 on the package. So I have no idea what they are. But either way they are only being used for veg. Plus I have more on the way. They have alternating diodes between 2700k, 3000k, 4000k split over 40 diodes. And I got them super cheap. But the guy on Facebook tested two boards. Both qb288 from hlg and one from rita. They were way different in test results. He posted them. And then his entire post disappeared. Meaning it was deleted. And hes no longer part of the private page anymore. He was also deleted from the group.

that would tell me something....that who ever is running that private page doesn't want you to know the truth.....

 

[whytewidow]

that would tell me something....that who ever is running that private page doesn't want you to know the truth.....

Exactly. That's 100% what i thought. And I was gonna screenshot it to save it. And as I was reading it. I play battleship online with my little boy. He has a tablet. He sent me an play invite. And it only stays up on my phone for a few. And it goes away. So I jus hit accept and played the game with him. Then had dinner. By the time we were done with dinner and got it all cleaned up. And I got back on fb to their page it was all gone. Every single post. There was like 90 replies and rita was commenting on it. And poof gone.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Anyone heard of "SEAL" LED's lol is this just the seal date label?
View attachment 4265650

View attachment 4265651

@lukio I know, this is a circus.. This is prolly racist but I wasn't expecting the deviousness thrown at me from the Asian culture. I thought this was going to go comepletely different.

And I hear what everyone is screaming, quality is expensive. But I pride myself on being resourceful and sometimes a guy can find a cheaper way to kill the mouse. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean its quality (no dig at HLG), and just because one company sells a product for a certain price doesnt mean there's not going to be competition in the marketplace. I'm sure HLG has S6 or Digikey or whoever, but I was trying to get a cheap deal on the boards knowing they were prolly S5 and after I specified S6.

LOL! She's fucking with you.

You know yourself you got what you paid for. You knew all along you probably weren't going to get S6 boards, because if something is too good to be true, it probably is.

I'm sure they will grow plants. But as long as people continue to play this charade - that they are somehow getting a huge bargain because their choice of Chinese vendor has all the top bin diodes in the world - then the Chinese vendors will be just as happy to play along.

You gave them your money. You perpetuated the con.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. There's nothing wrong with buying off Chinese vendors so long as you are realistic about your purchase. You're probably still getting a half-decent deal.

 

[lukio]

I thought this was going to go comepletely different.

LOL

Theyll still grow loads of nice weed. Your environment is more important than the small efficiency difference.

 

[welight]

if your interested in the degree of fakery out there you should check out the Cree Fake Led awareness sticky over at budgetlightforum
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/41084
scarey, enlightening, funny, but always entertaining. None of the information seems to actually dissuade the 'I got the deal of the century' dudes, the rationalisation of the deal is always paramount over the why does the light not perform wash up. Once the money is spent, well you can never get it back so value is perception and if it does the task, who's to say whats a bad light
Cheers

 

[PSUAGRO.]

pay peanuts get monkeys.

I want monkeys, lots of them, the helper kind so I don't have to lift a finger at home.

Probably could teach them to trim? with some munching loss no doubt....

sleep with one eye open though, little fuckers are smart! I definitely know they wont weld with a PAPER mask.... .lol

 

[ApfelStrudel]

if your interested in the degree of fakery out there you should check out the Cree Fake Led awareness sticky over at budgetlightforum
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/41084
scarey, enlightening, funny, but always entertaining. None of the information seems to actually dissuade the 'I got the deal of the century' dudes, the rationalisation of the deal is always paramount over the why does the light not perform wash up. Once the money is spent, well you can never get it back so value is perception and if it does the task, who's to say whats a bad light
Cheers

Since you've been selling those Crees yourself from probably the very fist generation of XP-E, XP-G, XM-L chips, did you ever check those hhow they changed through generations? First XP-E for example came in a XP package 3.5x3.5mm with the die from 7090 for exmple. Both were updated from EZ900 to EZ1000 (0.9 square mm and 1.0 square mm die surface), later on subtrate was changed and 2nd generation of those hit the market (XP and XM packages) and dies and substrates kept changing under same package and generation names (from SiC1 to SiCx until today).
Did you ever make a comparison of those? You still have bunch of all of those on hand I guess?

 

[lukio]

I want monkeys, lots of them, the helper kind so I don't have to lift a finger at home.

Probably could teach them to trim? with some munching loss no doubt....

sleep with one eye open though, little fuckers are smart! I definitely know they wont weld with a PAPER mask.... .lol

HAHAHAHA when the second guy pops up! wtf man lol

monkeys though, im with ya - i hate trimming!

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Exactly. That's 100% what i thought. And I was gonna screenshot it to save it. And as I was reading it. I play battleship online with my little boy. He has a tablet. He sent me an play invite. And it only stays up on my phone for a few. And it goes away. So I jus hit accept and played the game with him. Then had dinner. By the time we were done with dinner and got it all cleaned up. And I got back on fb to their page it was all gone. Every single post. There was like 90 replies and rita was commenting on it. And poof gone.

Would have loved to have seen that

 

[welight]

Since you've been selling those Crees yourself from probably the very fist generation of XP-E, XP-G, XM-L chips, did you ever check those hhow they changed through generations? First XP-E for example came in a XP package 3.5x3.5mm with the die from 7090 for exmple. Both were updated from EZ900 to EZ1000 (0.9 square mm and 1.0 square mm die surface), later on subtrate was changed and 2nd generation of those hit the market (XP and XM packages) and dies and substrates kept changing under same package and generation names (from SiC1 to SiCx until today).
Did you ever make a comparison of those? You still have bunch of all of those on hand I guess?

Yes we have the very first Cree packages from 2005 still in stock, it has been an interesting journey, back in the day 50 lumen chips were considered state of the art. There is no doubt that larger dies in smaller packages have driven both lumen and efficacy gains along with major improvements in phosphors and packaging technology, Cree tech that has driven down forward voltage and phosphor are probably the biggest factors than have seen Cree move from 50 LPW to over 200lpw during that time, the improvement in packaging has allowed those gains to manifest into lower thermal resistance to get the heat out. They are probably the biggest changes, you know your led history
Cheers
Mark

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

I think I'll snag one of these unless someone has a link where the QB304s w 660nm are??...


Then I just need to find a lab to test. Anyone know of anything? I searched integrating sphere lab test but just came up with a bunch of instruments for sale..