Why is the “flip” different indoors than outdoors?

[DCcan]

You need a driver for that, like $6-7.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

You need a driver for that, like $6-7.

Sure, but that's trivial to get. I might even end up getting the different kinds of LED boards that they suggest and just solder up a modular LED strip myself. It's not rocket science after all.
That could end up cheaper and more flexible than importing from the US.

What's most interesting for me is how to get a smooth transition into flower; having low wave length light makes sense, it emulates sunset. The question is what light you need and in what proportion for best effect.

If this tends to shorten flowering times in the order of weeks it's well worth the effort in my eyes.

 

[Merlin1147]

The Emerson’s effect and the use of far red at the end of day, are two different things. I bought a bunch of different reds including 660 from rapid and put them on a heat sink with their own driver to get Emerson effect after the stretch is done. I find the use of far red at EOD shortens flower time on normal 8-9 week strains. I’m getting down to breeder week times at maturity. Lol. But the trade off is a slight reduction in yield. So there is that to consider. I added the far red primarily for the endless 13-16 week Sativa grows. That’s a lot of time for things to go wrong, and honestly I get tired of looking at them week after week after week so anything to shorten the time.

 

[twentyeight.threefive]

Very interesting guys keep it going I swore I would quit before I grew indoors again but I’m starting to have second thoughts. No way your indoor girls are as happy as my outdoor but yours are prettier than mine too loo.

You're right, my indoor plants aren't as happy as your outdoor plants.

They are happier.

 

[YardG]

Just some musings from an insomniac. I grew a couple cabinet crops after we became legal, I followed all the rules and sure enough after I flipped to 12/12 in just a few days there were pre-flowers. This year is my first stab at outdoor. I have my legal 6 girls, all different strains (mostly sativa). I have an app that shows hours of daylight. When my last girl finally got pre-flowers we still had 14:20 of daylight. I was told even a pinhole of light would stop flowering indoors after the flip. To add to this, mostly for a test, I kept an outside light on my garden shed turned on 24/7. Waaaaay more than a pinhole of light. So my girls all flowered before we got to 14 hours 20 minutes of daylight plus a fairly bright lamp about 10’ away on all day and night. Explain this please.

One question, how long did you veg the indoor plants before flip, and how long were the outdoor plants vegging before they showed preflowers?

 

[Bukvičák]

Very interesting guys keep it going I swore I would quit before I grew indoors again but I’m starting to have second thoughts. No way your indoor girls are as happy as my outdoor but yours are prettier than mine too loo.

If that level of “happiness” is measured by the time how fast your pistils get fucked up straight after they popped out, than you are definitely topper… GL with your schwaq!

 

[okmtnbiker]

If that level of “happiness” is measured by the time how fast your pistils get fucked up straight after they popped out, than you are definitely topper… GL with your schwaq!

Well I definitely know one poor soul here who ain’t happy. Thanks mods for making that “ignore” button so handy woot!

 

[okmtnbiker]

One question, how long did you veg the indoor plants before flip, and how long were the outdoor plants vegging before they showed preflowers?

I planted Mrs X in my garden with 4 nodes on April 2 lol. I didn’t write down the day she hatched but she’s around 180 days old. Yes 180.

 

[okmtnbiker]

Guys I didn’t ask anyone anything before I did this. I never learned anything well in my life until after I did it wrong the first time. Wth are you miliniums gonna do when the Internet breaks??? Hopefully bu that time I’ll be a master, and I’ll be happy to help you guys but it probably won’t be free like this great information you have available now. I just wanted to visit with you guys any punks are gettin’ ignored woot

 

[YardG]

I planted Mrs X in my garden with 4 nodes on April 2 lol. I didn’t write down the day she hatched but she’s around 180 days old. Yes 180.

I was mostly curious about how long you had vegged the indoor grow before flip, and how long you had vegged the outdoor plants before they started showing preflowers because I wondered if the indoor plants hadn't been vegged for 7+ weeks. It's usually around 7-8 weeks of veg when plants reach sexual maturity (different from flowering, think of it is the cannabis version of the onset of puberty), and start showing alternating leaf nodes (and preflowers if they haven't already).

 

[riuTEMPriu]

Guys I didn’t ask anyone anything before I did this. I never learned anything well in my life until after I did it wrong the first time. Wth are you miliniums gonna do when the Internet breaks??? Hopefully bu that time I’ll be a master, and I’ll be happy to help you guys but it probably won’t be free like this great information you have available now. I just wanted to visit with you guys any punks are gettin’ ignored woot

Damn dude learn to post as well as to grow before embarrassing all us boomers with your psychobabble

 

[Cycad]

To answer the original question, it is not just light. The plants sense temperature, I'm sure they can tell what season it is. Root conditions reflect outdoor seasons whereas indoor, nothing changes.

 

[okmtnbiker]

To answer the original question, it is not just light. The plants sense temperature, I'm sure they can tell what season it is. Root conditions reflect outdoor seasons whereas indoor, nothing changes.

Thanks. That definitely makes sense. I did not enjoy indoors much as I had a home built cheap setup. iv enjoyed this outdoor so much and I’ve learned so much more that now I’m planning on building a dedicated grow room and doing it right. iv been doing forums since the internet was born, they are kinda like gardening. Sometimes you gotta set a trap to catch the slugs lol.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

The Emerson’s effect and the use of far red at the end of day, are two different things. I bought a bunch of different reds including 660 from rapid and put them on a heat sink with their own driver to get Emerson effect after the stretch is done. I find the use of far red at EOD shortens flower time

Maybe you can give us the rundown again on your setup. I would certainly like to employ red and far red light, but only if there is a significant effect.

How I understand you, you use 660 and 720 light ("red" and "far red"). The 720 is on during "dusk" for 10 minutes, when the lights go off. The 660 is on during the "day", but only after the flowering stretch, which is probably over four weeks into flowering. In any case you leave the reds on until 5 minutes after the main light goes out.

What is your proportion of 660 to 720 diodes? How many Watts of red light do you use per square metre (or per Watts of full-spectrum light)?

I'm guessing the effect is fairly easy to observe. As for reduced yields, this might easily be offset by shorter harvest cycles.

 

[potroastV2]

The Emerson’s effect and the use of far red at the end of day, are two different things. I bought a bunch of different reds including 660 from rapid and put them on a heat sink with their own driver to get Emerson effect after the stretch is done. I find the use of far red at EOD shortens flower time on normal 8-9 week strains. I’m getting down to breeder week times at maturity. Lol. But the trade off is a slight reduction in yield. So there is that to consider. I added the far red primarily for the endless 13-16 week Sativa grows. That’s a lot of time for things to go wrong, and honestly I get tired of looking at them week after week after week so anything to shorten the time.

LOL at breeder week times! Good stuff, Man.

As I was reading your post, I was thinking you will hurt your yield. Then you confirmed it. Yeah, a shorter time to ripen sounds good and all, but the last weeks are when a lot of good stuff happens, including the plumping of the buds.

 

[okmtnbiker]

I was mostly curious about how long you had vegged the indoor grow before flip, and how long you had vegged the outdoor plants before they started showing preflowers because I wondered if the indoor plants hadn't been vegged for 7+ weeks. It's usually around 7-8 weeks of veg when plants reach sexual maturity (different from flowering, think of it is the cannabis version of the onset of puberty), and start showing alternating leaf nodes (and preflowers if they haven't already).

Sorry I just saw this. Man I’m no gardener lol I figured it was a great idea to start several weeks early. Next year my plants will top out at 6-7’ instead of 15’. Of the seeds that I started myself my first one popped above ground in mid March. All my seedlings were planted in early April with 4-6 nodes ,and as I culled males those were replaced by clones. By flower I had to get down to 6 to stay legal (we can have 12 plants but only 6 in flower). I harvested one already, so now I have 3 seed plants and 2 clones. BTW I’m in zone 7.

 

[Merlin1147]

Maybe you can give us the rundown again on your setup. I would certainly like to employ red and far red light, but only if there is a significant effect.

How I understand you, you use 660 and 720 light ("red" and "far red"). The 720 is on during "dusk" for 10 minutes, when the lights go off. The 660 is on during the "day", but only after the flowering stretch, which is probably over four weeks into flowering. In any case you leave the reds on until 5 minutes after the main light goes out.

What is your proportion of 660 to 720 diodes? How many Watts of red light do you use per square metre (or per Watts of full-spectrum light)?

I'm guessing the effect is fairly easy to observe. As for reduced yields, this might easily be offset by shorter harvest cycles.

Wow this thread is going deep!
I can‘t say that the Emerson Effect is easy to observe. I’m not even convinced it’s actually even a thing. In the 1950s Emerson exposed algae to individual wavelengths and found they did better when exposed to 660 and 720 together than they did with either wavelength alone. I’m not sure if increasing 660 and 720 in a full spectrum environment could be called the Emerson Effect. I think the way a plant uses light is way more complicated. We used to think green light was totally useless but now NASA thinks otherwise. As for Far Red at End of day, that is more obvious. You can probably shave a week off an 8-9 week strain.
All that said, for sure more red light in flower definitely helps bud development.
I grow as a hobby and am curious about things in general so when I built my lights I wanted the ability to change the spectrum based on growth stage.
So for my light
The base light is Samsung strips at about 35 watts per square foot.
In addition I have a ”blue channel”, a “red channel” and a “far red” all on individual dimmers/drivers. Also I have UVB.

The Blue is individual diodes from UVA 390-400nm down to blue 465-485nm at 9 watts per square foot. I use this channel very dimmed down in veg. Too high is veg and there is stress damage. And then the last few weeks in bloom I crank it up. It does amazing things for terps. If I turn it on at all in veg or bloom within hours the smell is massive.

The red channel has 620-630, 740-780 and the 660 reds for a total of 7 watts per square foot. The 660s are 4 watts per sq ft.

Then there are the far reds at 2 watts per square foot.

Lastly I have Arcadia 12% UVB which I ease in, adding 15-30 minutes every few days during bloom until they are on for the full 12 hours by the end.

In terms of the red / far red.
At the flip I run the far red (720-740) at the end of the day for 10 minutes, 5 minutes before and after sunset.
After the stretch I’ll run the Red channel and the Far Red all day with the main lights but I keep the far red (720-740) on after sunset for 5 minutes. So after stretch the far red is on for 12 hours 5 minutes.

I used CREE XP-E2 diodes from Rapid. They’re easy mount to a heat sink with the precut double sided tape they sell and daisy chain with the jumper wires they sell.

 

[Merlin1147]

To answer the original question, it is not just light. The plants sense temperature, I'm sure they can tell what season it is. Root conditions reflect outdoor seasons whereas indoor, nothing changes.

Good point! Makes me wonder if plants in the ground outside are getting signals from the fungal network to flower. Really fascinating new research coming out about how the fungal network is acting as an information highway and managing the flow of carbohydrates across multiple plant species.

 

[Porky1982]

To answer the original question, it is not just light. The plants sense temperature, I'm sure they can tell what season it is. Root conditions reflect outdoor seasons whereas indoor, nothing changes.

No it's just light. That's why when ya go 12/12 they flower!!