Should the US shed blood for Ukraine

[xtsho]

ummmm, you could have used the Poll..what's wrong with you? my post about Navalny too soon?

I'm not a big fan of polls.

 

[Fogdog]

I feel like that was more just hyperbole in the video title to get views. The video agrees with what you're saying about Putin trying to wreck Ukraine. The toned down version of the title has more to do with the US' actions, due to a lack of understanding, which make the situation worse. I really don't see a problem with fostering a neutral Ukraine, but ultimately it's not the US/Russia's decision to make.

I don't think so. He cast Putin's actions as a response to NATO accepting Ukraine's request for help. As if it was just a logical progression of power plays. I can only paraphrase but what I saw was an argument based upon the doctrine of realpolitik, which follows practical rather than ideological statecraft. One can justify anything that way. After all, of course Hitler had to murder the Jews, because that was a core tenet of his government.

 

[schuylaar]

I'm not a big fan of polls.

the anonymity too much to bear? it's an RIU Poll.

 

[schuylaar]

I feel like that was more just hyperbole in the video title to get views. The video agrees with what you're saying about Putin trying to wreck Ukraine. The toned down version of the title has more to do with the US' actions, due to a lack of understanding, which make the situation worse. I really don't see a problem with fostering a neutral Ukraine, but ultimately it's not the US/Russia's decision to make.

people get ideas.

 

[xtsho]

the anonymity too much to bear? it's an RIU Poll.

Well at least my post was related to the topic of the thread. Everyone else has gone off and is talking about teddy bears and laundry detergent.

 

[schuylaar]

Well at least my post was related to the topic of the thread. Everyone else has gone off and is talking about teddy bears and laundry detergent.

citation.

 

[xtsho]

citation.

 

[Fogdog]

 

[Sativied]

It worked so well with Poland and Hungary.

I don't blame them.

If this was a true direct democracy and we could, we‘d vote those racists homophobes out the EU.

Dutch PM Rutte: No place in EU for Hungary with anti-LGBT law

Mark Rutte's comments came at the start of an EU summit as several leaders criticised Hungary's law.

www.bbc.com

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

East europe just isn’t as much like the west as some want it to be. This again has a lot to do with the aftermath of the iron curtain. Everyone here knows the more you go east, the crazier they get, with Ukraine being the worst. Maybe it’s the russian separatists side that helped create that negative image but if you don’t like Poland and Hungary it certainly makes sense not wanting Ukraine to join. It could have been any other country though. We went from 6 to 13 to almost 30 members states. We didn’t sign up for that.

I wanted to visit Crimea so badly a decade ago though. They used to throw one of the best parties in the world. Kazantip.

Lots of drugs, alcohol and beautiful topless women.

 

[Kassiopeija]

i'm guessing maybe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany

check out their policies... ...looks like there are still some nazis in Germany

LOL FUCK OFF
I'm a member of the Green Party
what kind of people are you reverting instantly to ad hominem attacks and smearing someone with brown crap but not addressing the argument made.
Just because I have an individual opinion on things
I fought Nazi skinheads 35 years ago with my fists you fat ass talker
but you in your super country, you still let them aggregate wearing Nazi flags KKK and BS all down by law here yet you dare talk this shit to me
You sound like Goebbels son when you lie so much
and with "you" I mean a large part of this war-hungry democrats that constantly wage war throughout the world to test your war-machinery, it's profitable I know your friends the Saudi's sing a song of genocide
War War War
when will you calm down a bit
Murder Murder Murder
in the US cities
Crime crime crime
1% of your population locked up

And Ger still does uphold sanctions etc we follow the West wtf are you insisting here... are you blind?

But my PERSONAL opinion would be that Ger should rather espouse a politics of NEUTRALITY like Switzerland or Norway. But we don't because we still have too many christian-democratic conservative shitheads calling the shots here. They mostly care about money/industry... or a deranged ideology/personal profit.

That said, to address some points been mentioned in other posts:
- we have laws, the constitution forbids sending troops to other countries for aggressive movements. Even the troops in Jugoslavia were actually against that, but the shitheads in power are also mostly our supreme judges (at least we have no rapist there). BTW thx to US forces uses Uranium-enriched tank projectiles there violating the laws, after Chernobyl we surely need more radioactivity.
- we have laws, we cannot let endangered predatory birds die out as then pests like field voles will harm even more. Yeah and just because we have 1 problem on the world doesnt mean we should forget the other. What kind of infantile thinking is this lolwtf?!? besides, it's the US & China doing most damage to the climate, not us.

Personally I'd focus more on atomic energy but this topic is incredibly unpopular here. Forget it. So the energy needs to come from somewhere else.

 

[Fogdog]

LOL FUCK OFF
I'm a member of the Green Party
what kind of people are you reverting instantly to ad hominem attacks and smearing someone with brown crap but not addressing the argument made.
Just because I have an individual opinion on things
I fought Nazi skinheads 35 years ago with my fists you fat ass talker
but you in your super country, you still let them aggregate wearing Nazi flags KKK and BS all down by law here yet you dare talk this shit to me
You sound like Goebbels son when you lie so much
and with "you" I mean a large part of this war-hungry democrats that constantly wage war throughout the world to test your war-machinery, it's profitable I know your friends the Saudi's sing a song of genocide
War War War
when will you calm down a bit
Murder Murder Murder
in the US cities
Crime crime crime
1% of your population locked up

And Ger still does uphold sanctions etc we follow the West wtf are you insisting here... are you blind?

But my PERSONAL opinion would be that Ger should rather espouse a politics of NEUTRALITY like Switzerland or Norway. But we don't because we still have too many christian-democratic conservative shitheads calling the shots here. They mostly care about money/industry... or a deranged ideology/personal profit.

That said, to address some points been mentioned in other posts:
- we have laws, the constitution forbids sending troops to other countries for aggressive movements. Even the troops in Jugoslavia were actually against that, but the shitheads in power are also mostly our supreme judges (at least we have no rapist there). BTW thx to US forces uses Uranium-enriched tank projectiles there violating the laws, after Chernobyl we surely need more radioactivity.
- we have laws, we cannot let endangered predatory birds die out as then pests like field voles will harm even more. Yeah and just because we have 1 problem on the world doesnt mean we should forget the other. What kind of infantile thinking is this lolwtf?!? besides, it's the US & China doing most damage to the climate, not us.

Personally I'd focus more on atomic energy but this topic is incredibly unpopular here. Forget it. So the energy needs to come from somewhere else.

It's too bad that Germany doesn't just up and shoot these new Nazis in the head.

 

[xtsho]

View attachment 5084319

I liked Nancy Reagan.

 

[Fogdog]

I liked Nancy Reagan.

After Trump, I miss her too. I've come to appreciate civil political discourse with civil people who hold different views than I do.

You are politically closer to the majority of this country than I am.

 

[mooray]

I don't think so. He cast Putin's actions as a response to NATO accepting Ukraine's request for help. As if it was just a logical progression of power plays. I can only paraphrase but what I saw was an argument based upon the doctrine of realpolitik, which is upon practical rather than ideological statecraft. One can justify anything that way. After all, of course Hitler had to murder the Jews, because that was a core tenet of his government.

I don't disagree, but I think it comes from a place of frustration out of the US' apparent lack of understanding, more than it would come from any type of bias or sympathizing. He says himself that he's a 19th century person, which puts him in a position of understanding Russia/China/etc, and that DC are more 21st century people, which puts them in a position of not really understanding and also in a position of unintentionally starting a war. Had I been in the audience, I would have liked to ask him, if Putin is as sharp as you say and if he understands all of this, then wouldn't he be the one starting a war? If he knows that his 19th century actions will be met with a 21st century response and that his opponents will unintentionally cause an escalation, then wouldn't he actually be causing it all? Doesn't that knowledge of old vs new put him in a unique position over ourselves?

 

[Fogdog]

I don't disagree, but I think it comes from a place of frustration out of the US' apparent lack of understanding, more than it would come from any type of bias or sympathizing. He says himself that he's a 19th century person, which puts him in a position of understanding Russia/China/etc, and that DC are more 21st century people, which puts them in a position of not really understanding and also in a position of unintentionally starting a war. Had I been in the audience, I would have liked to ask him, if Putin is as sharp as you say and if he understands all of this, then wouldn't he be the one starting a war? If he knows that his 19th century actions will be met with a 21st century response and that his opponents will unintentionally cause an escalation, then wouldn't he actually be causing it all? Doesn't that knowledge of old vs new put him in a unique position over ourselves?

Do you know what he's referring to? That was the age of colonialization where wealthy industrial might was used to crush other nations. The first half of that era, slavery in the US was called an institution. The second half was raced based slavery under Jim Crow. Britain's actions in China. Belgium in Africa.

Damn man, The first half of that era was the age of Metternich and his police state, where a person could be imprisoned and executed without a trial and their sole crime was saying something his government didn't like. It was an age of absolutist monarchs and revolutions by people who would rather risk death than live under them.

The end of that century was the dawn of gunboat diplomacy and the expansion of US imperialism. Where the US took possession of much of the Caribbean, the Philippines and other parts of the world. I'm not shaming this country for it. nor would I pine for the glory days of Roosevelt and his big stick policies.

Absolutely agree, those policies are what the guy in the video was endorsing. 150 years later, the world is a better place because that form of politics were washed away but it took a lot of blood to do it. Putin and his Russia are stuck in that mode. Glad to say, the US under Biden is not.

I don't know whether or not you understood what you were saying. I hope you did not.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

LOL FUCK OFF
I'm a member of the Green Party
what kind of people are you reverting instantly to ad hominem attacks and smearing someone with brown crap but not addressing the argument made.
Just because I have an individual opinion on things
I fought Nazi skinheads 35 years ago with my fists you fat ass talker
but you in your super country, you still let them aggregate wearing Nazi flags KKK and BS all down by law here yet you dare talk this shit to me
You sound like Goebbels son when you lie so much
and with "you" I mean a large part of this war-hungry democrats that constantly wage war throughout the world to test your war-machinery, it's profitable I know your friends the Saudi's sing a song of genocide
War War War
when will you calm down a bit
Murder Murder Murder
in the US cities
Crime crime crime
1% of your population locked up

And Ger still does uphold sanctions etc we follow the West wtf are you insisting here... are you blind?

But my PERSONAL opinion would be that Ger should rather espouse a politics of NEUTRALITY like Switzerland or Norway. But we don't because we still have too many christian-democratic conservative shitheads calling the shots here. They mostly care about money/industry... or a deranged ideology/personal profit.

That said, to address some points been mentioned in other posts:
- we have laws, the constitution forbids sending troops to other countries for aggressive movements. Even the troops in Jugoslavia were actually against that, but the shitheads in power are also mostly our supreme judges (at least we have no rapist there). BTW thx to US forces uses Uranium-enriched tank projectiles there violating the laws, after Chernobyl we surely need more radioactivity.
- we have laws, we cannot let endangered predatory birds die out as then pests like field voles will harm even more. Yeah and just because we have 1 problem on the world doesnt mean we should forget the other. What kind of infantile thinking is this lolwtf?!? besides, it's the US & China doing most damage to the climate, not us.

Personally I'd focus more on atomic energy but this topic is incredibly unpopular here. Forget it. So the energy needs to come from somewhere else.

jeez...touch a fucking nerve?....little touchy about the whole naizs in the closet thing?...why worry if it doesn't apply to you? i don't worry about your opinion, because it doesn't apply to me
go goosestep it off, heinrich...

 

[Fogdog]

jeez...touch a fucking nerve?....little touchy about the whole naizs in the closet thing?...why worry if it doesn't apply to you? i don't worry about your opinion, because it doesn't apply to me
go goosestep it off, heinrich...

The green color of its avi is the only green thing about it.

It's a member of the Greens Party, my ass.

 

[mooray]

Do you know what he's referring to? That was the age of colonialization where wealthy industrial might was used to crush other nations. The first half of that era, slavery in the US was called an institution. The second half was raced based slavery under Jim Crow. Britain's actions in China. Belgium in Africa.

Damn man, The first half of that era was the age of Metternich and his police state, where a person could be imprisoned and executed without a trial and the sole crime of saying something his government didn't like. It was an age of absolutist monarchs and revolutions by people who would rather risk death than live under them.

The end of that century was the dawn of gunboat diplomacy and the expansion of US imperialism. Where the US took possession of much of the Caribbean, the Phillippines and other parts of the world. I'm not shaming this country for it. nor would I pine for the glory days of Roosevelt and his big stick policies.

Absolutely agree, those policies are what the guy in the video was endorsing. 150 years later, the world is a better place because that form of politics were washed away but it took a lot of blood to do it. Putin and his Russia are stuck in that mode. Glad to say, the US under Biden is not.

I don't know whether or not you understood what you were saying. I hope you did not.

There are no clean eras, but to me it sounded like it was about understanding these moves, nothing to do with being in support of them. The 21st century ideologies are the most "correct" in my mind, but his point seems to be more that people are playing tennis against people that are playing soccer.

 

[Fogdog]

There are no clean eras, but to me it sounded like it was about understanding these moves, nothing to do with being in support of them. The 21st century ideologies are the most "correct" in my mind, but his point seems to be more that people are playing tennis against people that are playing soccer.

I don't see how you came to that conclusion. I think I'll give it another listen. What I heard during my first listen, I've already summarized and don't feel the need to repeat.

If you'd like to show more understanding of what you are talking about regarding 19th century politics, suggest you give a listen to the Revolutions podcast where it covers the very turbulent 19th century in Europe. The link below takes you there.

Revolutions

A weekly podcasting exploring great political revolutions. Now: The Russian Revolution Next: ???

thehistoryofrome.typepad.com

A good read about US Diplomacy from 1890 to Obama's presidency:

David Milne, "Worldmaking: The Art and Science of American Diplomacy"

Review:

Worldmaking: The Art and Science of American Diplomacy, by David Milne (2015) - Not Even Past

With the 2016 presidential campaign in full swing, voters might wonder where the varied, and conflicting, foreign policy ideas advanced by the candidates originate. David Milne’s excellent new book offers a great place to begin.

notevenpast.org

I checked a copy from my local library.

 

[GoatSoup]

"If I were Biden" I'd ship Ukraine a battery of MLRS and those cute little armor seeking bomblet shells. Let Putin come up against some good counter battery radar and MLRS! Let's see how long his little green men can hold up to Arteillery?