Was Trump stupid for claiming credit for "the vaccine" , will Democrats use that to fuck him in his fat ass as their own vaccine regret intensifies?

[hanimmal]

Bush, Clinton and Obama were not politicians? C'mon...

When was that picture taken? Which offices were they in /running for? (Hint, none, they are out of politics and no longer politicians)

grats on getting me to post in this stupid fucking thread again though, it usually is the dumb shit that works to bump these things though eh.

 

[HGCC]

That then begs the question of which is more important to hold sacred, a right or a responsibility?

Your post implies that we should not be allowed to have rights until and unless we bow down to our masters, and uphold our imposed "responsibilities".

I think they go hand in hand. I'm not talking about a responsibility to have insurance or something, those rights to freedom come with the responsibility to exercise them responsibly. Goes back to that central criticism I make about the libertarian oriented views, what do you do when your rights run into someone else if you don't have the laws and such that the belief system eschews.

 

[HGCC]

Will take pj over many others. He at least believes what he says and defends it. We don't agree on much, but at least he isn't a fuckin dipshit like the vast majority of counter opinions. A variety of views is good, those waters get muddied pretty easily though.

 

[PJ Diaz]

I think they go hand in hand. I'm not talking about a responsibility to have insurance or something, those rights to freedom come with the responsibility to exercise them responsibly. Goes back to that central criticism I make about the libertarian oriented views, what do you do when your rights run into someone else if you don't have the laws and such that the belief system eschews.

Who defines a "responsibility", and at what cost? Prior to emancipation, black people in the US did not have a right for freedom, as they were defined by the Government to lack social responsibility. Is it your assertion that disparities such as that are no longer existing in 2022?

 

[HGCC]

Not sure? That seems to be an odd criteria.

What happens in the case of someone having the right to do what they will on their property, but what they want to do is dump waste into the stream that passes through and ruins everything downstream. Don't they have an equal right? You have the right to do what you will, but the responsibility to not be a jackass with it...history has shown people don't exercise that restraint and responsibility in terms of how it impacts others.


*debating changing my mental picture from a time before environmental laws and people exercised their right to dump shit into rivers and they caught on fire to that weird town in NH that got overtaken by bears because libertarians took over and just let their freedoms run wild and fed bears. It's a very funny tale that everyone should check out. Like seasteading stories.

Edit: link to a story about the bears, I recall people from my internet sphere going to both that and seasteading, and it's absolutely hilarious.

The Town That Went Feral

When a group of libertarians set about scrapping their local government, chaos descended. And then the bears moved in.

newrepublic.com

 

[Lucky Luke]

When was that picture taken? Which offices were they in /running for? (Hint, none, they are out of politics and no longer politicians)

grats on getting me to post in this stupid fucking thread again though, it usually is the dumb shit that works to bump these things though eh.

They are always Politicians. Even an ex president is called president.

Its like a game of football. On the field they try to destroy each other but afterwards its all tag teaming chicks and getting wasted together.

 

[doublejj]

They are always Politicians. Even an ex president is called president.

Its like a game of football. On the field they try to destroy each other but afterwards its all tag teaming chicks and getting wasted together.

and a felon will always be called a felon.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Michelle Obama is not a politician, genius.

More weak sauce.

Didn't say she was.

You don't get laughed at for that saying over there?

 

[Lucky Luke]

It is how it is he says, then he supports that ambiguous statement with word diarrhea.

Two thumbs up my guy.

OK.
You like to insult but not actually supply any facts.
I say all Governments take away rights. I gave examples to prove my point. many, many examples. Can give you many, many more.
You don't agree.
So give me an example or two of a Government that hasn't taken away rights?

 

[cannabineer]

OK.
You like to insult but not actually supply any facts.
I say all Governments take away rights. I gave propaganda vids to prove my point. many, many propaganda vids. Van give you many, many more.
You don't agree.
So give me an example or two of a Government that hasn't taken away rights?

Fify

 

[dstroy]

OK.
You like to insult but not actually supply any facts.
I say all Governments take away rights. I gave examples to prove my point. many, many examples. Van give you many, many more.
You don't agree.
So give me an example or two of a Government that hasn't taken away rights?

I don’t have any issues living in our society. Can’t manufacture crises fast enough to stay mad? Oh well, not my problem.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Not sure? That seems to be an odd criteria.

What happens in the case of someone having the right to do what they will on their property, but what they want to do is dump waste into the stream that passes through and ruins everything downstream. Don't they have an equal right? You have the right to do what you will, but the responsibility to not be a jackass with it...history has shown people don't exercise that restraint and responsibility in terms of how it impacts others.


*debating changing my mental picture from a time before environmental laws and people exercised their right to dump shit into rivers and they caught on fire to that weird town in NH that got overtaken by bears because libertarians took over and just let their freedoms run wild and fed bears. It's a very funny tale that everyone should check out. Like seasteading stories.

Edit: link to a story about the bears, I recall people from my internet sphere going to both that and seasteading, and it's absolutely hilarious.

The Town That Went Feral

When a group of libertarians set about scrapping their local government, chaos descended. And then the bears moved in.

newrepublic.com

I'm not aware of any rights to pollute the planet. Keep in mind that rights must be either inherent or granted. Those which are granted by authority may be taken away just as easily. Perhaps we should just focus on inalienable human rights, which should never be taken away, but sometimes are.

 

[HGCC]

I'm not aware of any rights to pollute the planet. Keep in mind that rights must be either inherent or granted. Those which are granted by authority may be taken away just as easily. Perhaps we should just focus on inalienable human rights, which should never be taken away, but sometimes are.

It's the right to do what you will on your own land, whatever that may be, you have the responsibility to not pollute.

What do you consider some examples of inherent inalienable rights?

 

[PJ Diaz]

It's the right to do what you will on your own land, whatever that may be, you have the responsibility to not pollute.

What do you consider some examples of inherent inalienable rights?

Well, we could start with a few which are outlined by the International Bill of Rights:

"Certain rights, therefore, may never be suspended or limited, even in emergency situations. These are the
rights to life, to freedom from torture, to freedom from enslavement or servitude, to protection from
imprisonment for debt, to freedom from retroactive penal laws, to recognition as a person before the law,
and to freedom of thought, conscience and religion."

 

[PJ Diaz]

and a felon will always be called a felon.

Meanwhile war criminals are called "former presidents".

 

[Lucky Luke]

I don’t have any issues living in our society. Can’t manufacture crises fast enough to stay mad? Oh well, not my problem.

I didn't ask if you did. What crises? Who is mad? Why don't you stay on the topic?

I said that all governments take away rights. And gave examples to prove my point. You disagreed but without any facts.
I asked for some facts to prove what you were saying..You don't have any so that means my statement that all governments take away rights is true.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Fify

Was no vid in my examples. I said:

"Its just how it is. Any government takes away rights. Remember the draft? They just tell you that your going to fight in a war. Is that a removal of rights? You know how you have to get a driving licence for anything? Why is that? Money?? Turns a right into a privilege. Don't get me started on parking fees...Haven't even the right to leave my property on roads that i pay for for a limited amount of time without paying for the right to park it even though i pay to register and insure it to use the roads that as previously said- i pay for.
If you think governments of all persuasions are not all about restricting and removing rights from the citizens then you need to pay more attention.
You haven't even the right to leave your own country and return without asking for permission. And pay for the privilege to apply.

Did you know that you have to actually pay to renounce your citizenship? Even your citizenship is not free for you to do as you like with. "

 

[HGCC]

Well, we could start with a few which are outlined by the International Bill of Rights:

"Certain rights, therefore, may never be suspended or limited, even in emergency situations. These are the
rights to life, to freedom from torture, to freedom from enslavement or servitude, to protection from
imprisonment for debt, to freedom from retroactive penal laws, to recognition as a person before the law,
and to freedom of thought, conscience and religion."

Those are all great, but aren't those granted by some authority and not inalienable human rights as you said we should stick with? One could argue that any group putting together a bill of rights is kind of functioning as a governing body.

I would also ask by what means those rights would be protected or enforced.

 

[cannabineer]

Those are all great, but aren't those granted by some authority and not inalienable human rights as you said we should stick with? One could argue that any group putting together a bill of rights is kind of functioning as a governing body.

I would also ask by what means those rights would be protected or enforced.

The concept of inalienable rights comes from the doctrine of natural law, the idea that there is a science of morality.

It was entertained by serious thinkers in the mid-18th century, but is not current. To paraphrase Dawkins, science and morality are now considered nonoverlapping magisteria.

 

[HGCC]

There is a good phrenology joke somewhere there.