Is Biden really that bad?

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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
he's quick on his feet in that clip, that i do applaud.....for the other supposed issues, i can't comment on them cause i don't have a white jacket that say's dr.
Neither do the people who claim he is senile; they don't have white coats either. However, I have seen plenty of shrinks and medical professionals on TV and read them that say Trump was and is dangerously mentally unfit. It is shaping up to a binary choice, since they obviously don't want to put Trump in prison yet. I mean if they did, Garland would have had him convicted over the Muller obstruction of justice charges and the Stormy Daniels crimes that Cohen did time for, before the clock ran out. I can't believe Trump will make it to election day, because that is over 540 days away, I don't even think he will make it to the primaries without being convicted of serious crimes both state and federally, much less being indicted for several state and federal crimes.

So, when is George Santo's trial 2025 or 2026, 2027? Can they prove intent? Can he run again before his trial? I have a hard time believing it takes this long to put Trump in a cage without Garland's help considering the public nature of his many crimes and the overwhelming evidence. Maybe it is the only way to save America from itself and get the republicans away from the levers of power long enough so they can be kept from them for a long time. I hope somebody has a plan, because the delays in and inequality of justice make no sense if they don't have an idea of where and when the end of the road will be for Trump. The democrats need a mandate to deal with fascist states, pass needed laws and to clean out the SCOTUS of the worst offenders.
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Same subject, but, skip to 6:00 & watch from there:

That is not a befuddled man.

That is not a man having trouble completing his sentences.

THAT is not a man who has trouble remembering *where* he is, *WHO* he is, or WHAT HE’S TALKING ABOUT

If you can’t TELL THAT from your own experience, then maybe you just have none. No experience of your own to draw on: just the echo of bullshit heard, and vaguely remembered. You should stop following people around: you’ll get into troubl

Compare it with your boss: he’ll mangle ANYTHING to stay on message; it doesn’t matter what he has to make up to account for it, it doesn’t matter that it doesn’t make sense, all it needs to do is give the anger something to stand on - even if it’s swept away in a moment by another, different round of anger, another round of HE’s so unfairly treated & HE never did anything even a little bit wrong & THEY’ll all be sorry when things work out for him becauseTHEY will be on the outside, and he will LAUGH AT THEM.

And if you can’t tell THAT from your personal lived experience, give up your phone, your computer, devices, TV - all of it - and go sit where you can’t hear traffic & listen to the wind in the trees. A few years ought to do it, but don’t be in a rush. You didn’t get this fucked up in a single decade: it won’t be fixed by a big fire & King Hangover

Seriously. DO NOT listen to him as if he ever were “president of the United states” in any meaningful sense at all: listen to him as if he were a preternaturally vicious seven-year-old *CONVINCED* that he knew *everything*, knowing deep in his bones that “smart” is a possession, a permission slip, he OWNS it - not something complicated like a capability, a tool you maybe could use to…figure things out & make a plan…or something
 
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Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Neither do the people who claim he is senile; they don't have white coats either. However, I have seen plenty of shrinks and medical professionals on TV and read them that say Trump was and is dangerously mentally unfit. It is shaping up to a binary choice, since they obviously don't want to put Trump in prison yet. I mean if they did, Garland would have had him convicted over the Muller obstruction of justice charges and the Stormy Daniels crimes that Cohen did time for, before the clock ran out. I can't believe Trump will make it to election day, because that is over 540 days away, I don't even think he will make it to the primaries without being convicted of serious crimes both state and federally, much less being indicted for several state and federal crimes.

So, when is George Santo's trial 2025 or 2026, 2027? Can they prove intent? Can he run again before his trial? I have a hard time believing it takes this long to put Trump in a cage without Garland's help considering the public nature of his many crimes and the overwhelming evidence. Maybe it is the only way to save America from itself and get the republicans away from the levers of power long enough so they can be kept from them for a long time. I hope somebody has a plan, because the delays in and inequality of justice make no sense if they don't have an idea of where and when the end of the road will be for Trump. The democrats need a mandate to deal with fascist states, pass needed laws and to clean out the SCOTUS of the worst offenders.
It’s been said before (I’ve said it before) but I’ll say it again:
fast would be satisfying, but PERMANENT IS BETTER.

It has to stick. ALL of it has to *STICK* at the end.

Fast feels good on the front end, but leads to carelessness that (can) screw up the back end; thorough feels good at the end, when the guilty are punished, the walls repaired, the machinery renewed, and our understanding of what needs fixing is clear and sharp
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Biden up 7 points over Donald Trump in 2024 popular vote, poll shows
View attachment 5292022
Unfortunately keeping Donald out of jail or prison until the primary could be a problem. If he loses the GOP nomination it would be nice to have him running around attacking the republicans for "disloyalty" and making his own bull moose run for POTUS to divide the republican vote. If he wins the GOP nomination then he will run from a prison cell, and it will be the big house vs the Whitehouse. Even if he won the election and the feds couldn't hold him, there would be two states lined up with life prison sentences to pick up the ball. I think the republican base is stupid enough to nominate him if he is indicted and even on trial, millions of them will vote for him even if he is convicted and in prison.

I think we will see in June, because when Donald gets in front of a federal DC Judge over the MAL docs and obstruction, he might have trouble getting bail after arraignment, most don't for these kinds of charges, especially if it is more than just willful retention of the docs and it looks like it could be. Once a DC federal judge owns his ass after indictment it is a whole new ballgame, and these judges jail people over classified documents and espionage all the time.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Biden up 7 points over Donald Trump in 2024 popular vote, poll shows
View attachment 5292022
That's good, but for fuck's sake, it ought to be 70 points...a monkey with the mange should be able to take a 7 point lead over trump.
Not blaming Biden, but the fickle, hard to decipher American voters.
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately keeping Donald out of jail or prison until the primary could be a problem. If he loses the GOP nomination it would be nice to have him running around attacking the republicans for "disloyalty" and making his own bull moose run for POTUS to divide the republican vote. If he wins the GOP nomination then he will run from a prison cell, and it will be the big house vs the Whitehouse. Even if he won the election and the feds couldn't hold him, there would be two states lined up with life prison sentences to pick up the ball. I think the republican base is stupid enough to nominate him if he is indicted and even on trial, millions of them will vote for him even if he is convicted and in prison.
We can only take this line of thought so far: considering the split in the GOOP klavern, we can realistically expect that to fall out @ ~30% Trump, ~30% Trumpism, ~40% No Fucking Way. Even if we assume the base overall runs ~60% MAGA, the best he can expect is to squeeze by in the primary.

Next factor is the shock of reality: serious jail time, disqualification, his entire rap sheet.

Yes, he runs a delusional horde; much of that is built on his personal mythology. ACTUAL convictions, *actual* jail sentences, actual imprisonment won’t cost him his *entire* mindshare…but consider the sheer EFFORT to block out everything he’s done, to ignore their own brains in “support” of his hook in their amygdalae: they DON’T *WANT* to believe any of it so they tie themselves to him & to each other more tightly every day - it’s how the link to faith+Jesus is made and reinforced, too…so understand, please, just how DEEPLY the personal need to not be wrong again is rooted in that ~60% MAGA number.

Not out of any sense of compassion, either.

Think of that core connection as a force multiplier: Trump is Gawd’s gift to them, Gawd’s people - just as the USA is Gawd’s gift to them. Everything about reality erodes that shell of protection they make for themselves. That’s why they constantly imagine that they’re under attack by demons (everything that isn’t protected by their kumbaya shields): it’s because they are so relentlessly boxed into a frame of reference that’s in basic conflict with much of what we’ve learned about the world, ourselves & each other over the last couple thousand years. Because of those fundamental incompatibilities, they end up feeling deprived, attacked, disrespected in almost every contact with reality that can’t be worked into their frame somehow. They act so defensive because they know how much damage they’re taking: they double & triple down because they’re already in too deep to change course - so holding the frame & its community together, by Jesus (whose bus is in the shop) & Donnie (who’s in the weeds) has become THE MOST IMPORTANT THING at hey can do.

EACH conviction of TDFFG & his henchlings for serious crimes against the nation, for deliberate attacks on the constitution, our elections, our state governments for the purpose of shredding the nation, & fundamentally lawless acts - and the years of fallout to follow - will hit ‘conservative America” like a wrecking ball. There isn’t enough kumbaya available to stand up to that, because it’s ONLY strength is in numbers.

The shell will break as a result of the number of individuals already at their limit where adherence to the frame is concerned: some mix of them will have their faith broken by trumps incarceration; I expect Christianity to take a big hit, too - it being the raw electoral mass that GOOP carved into MAGA. I expect the collective effect of closing the cell door to result in widespread disillusionment in their religion as well as their politics, their racist social structures, the policies that the guilty rode to power.

Very few people are 100% *anything* - almost everyone has things we cherished but put away to ‘avoid conflict’, old internal voices we’ve walled off, shoved away, refused to listen to, paths we chose to take & *not* to take in spite of what we really want(ed). People who have held themselves in check (often brutally) their whole lives will take the break as proof that they’ve been wrong about so much - and start to make choices they would never have made otherwise. The more repressed or suppressed, the more likely they are to bubble into awareness once the frame breaks - and in that period of disorientation, I think we’ll see a wave of people who have completely reversed how they live & express themselves. In other words, EXACTLY what the owner/ruler class has been MOST AFRAID OF.

OTOH, I have no doubt that not everyone will break - and undoubtedly some of them will take stochastic terrorism as their weapon of choice…and some will continue to team up to plant bombs, burn buildings, break into/out of jails, kidnap & kill people until caught or killed in turn. It will take a while to clean that up, but we will.

Anyhow, I’ve drifted again, a bit: main course is, leaving Trump in the wild has outlived its usefulness already (imo), and we shouldn’t neglect the catastrophic damage possibilities of completing the MAGA accountability arc.

“In RICO prosecutions we trust”
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
We can only take this line of thought so far: considering the split in the GOOP klavern, we can realistically expect that to fall out @ ~30% Trump, ~30% Trumpism, ~40% No Fucking Way. Even if we assume the base overall runs ~60% MAGA, the best he can expect is to squeeze by in the primary.

Next factor is the shock of reality: serious jail time, disqualification, his entire rap sheet.

Yes, he runs a delusional horde; much of that is built on his personal mythology. ACTUAL convictions, *actual* jail sentences, actual imprisonment won’t cost him his *entire* mindshare…but consider the sheer EFFORT to block out everything he’s done, to ignore their own brains in “support” of his hook in their amygdalae: they DON’T *WANT* to believe any of it so they tie themselves to him & to each other more tightly every day - it’s how the link to faith+Jesus is made and reinforced, too…so understand, please, just how DEEPLY the personal need to not be wrong again is rooted in that ~60% MAGA number.

Not out of any sense of compassion, either.

Think of that core connection as a force multiplier: Trump is Gawd’s gift to them, Gawd’s people - just as the USA is Gawd’s gift to them. Everything about reality erodes that shell of protection they make for themselves. That’s why they constantly imagine that they’re under attack by demons (everything that isn’t protected by their kumbaya shields): it’s because they are so relentlessly boxed into a frame of reference that’s in basic conflict with much of what we’ve learned about the world, ourselves & each other over the last couple thousand years. Because of those fundamental incompatibilities, they end up feeling deprived, attacked, disrespected in almost every contact with reality that can’t be worked into their frame somehow. They act so defensive because they know how much damage they’re taking: they double & triple down because they’re already in too deep to change course - so holding the frame & its community together, by Jesus (whose bus is in the shop) & Donnie (who’s in the weeds) has become THE MOST IMPORTANT THING at hey can do.

EACH conviction of TDFFG & his henchlings for serious crimes against the nation, for deliberate attacks on the constitution, our elections, our state governments for the purpose of shredding the nation, & fundamentally lawless acts - and the years of fallout to follow - will hit ‘conservative America” like a wrecking ball. There isn’t enough kumbaya available to stand up to that, because it’s ONLY strength is in numbers.

The shell will break as a result of the number of individuals already at their limit where adherence to the frame is concerned: some mix of them will have their faith broken by trumps incarceration; I expect Christianity to take a big hit, too - it being the raw electoral mass that GOOP carved into MAGA. I expect the collective effect of closing the cell door to result in widespread disillusionment in their religion as well as their politics, their racist social structures, the policies that the guilty rode to power.

Very few people are 100% *anything* - almost everyone has things we cherished but put away to ‘avoid conflict’, old internal voices we’ve walled off, shoved away, refused to listen to, paths we chose to take & *not* to take in spite of what we really want(ed). People who have held themselves in check (often brutally) their whole lives will take the break as proof that they’ve been wrong about so much - and start to make choices they would never have made otherwise. The more repressed or suppressed, the more likely they are to bubble into awareness once the frame breaks - and in that period of disorientation, I think we’ll see a wave of people who have completely reversed how they live & express themselves. In other words, EXACTLY what the owner/ruler class has been MOST AFRAID OF.

OTOH, I have no doubt that not everyone will break - and undoubtedly some of them will take stochastic terrorism as their weapon of choice…and some will continue to team up to plant bombs, burn buildings, break into/out of jails, kidnap & kill people until caught or killed in turn. It will take a while to clean that up, but we will.

Anyhow, I’ve drifted again, a bit: main course is, leaving Trump in the wild has outlived its usefulness already (imo), and we shouldn’t neglect the catastrophic damage possibilities of completing the MAGA accountability arc.

“In RICO prosecutions we trust”
While I largely agree with your thesis of that man losing support through sheer overwhelming erosion of ideology by event, I’m not at all convinced that Christianity will take a hit.

I do hope however that dominionism gets its wings clipped a bit. Having the most rabid Freedom Cockups as their talking heads has got to leave a mark.
 

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
We can only take this line of thought so far: considering the split in the GOOP klavern, we can realistically expect that to fall out @ ~30% Trump, ~30% Trumpism, ~40% No Fucking Way. Even if we assume the base overall runs ~60% MAGA, the best he can expect is to squeeze by in the primary.

Next factor is the shock of reality: serious jail time, disqualification, his entire rap sheet.

Yes, he runs a delusional horde; much of that is built on his personal mythology. ACTUAL convictions, *actual* jail sentences, actual imprisonment won’t cost him his *entire* mindshare…but consider the sheer EFFORT to block out everything he’s done, to ignore their own brains in “support” of his hook in their amygdalae: they DON’T *WANT* to believe any of it so they tie themselves to him & to each other more tightly every day - it’s how the link to faith+Jesus is made and reinforced, too…so understand, please, just how DEEPLY the personal need to not be wrong again is rooted in that ~60% MAGA number.

Not out of any sense of compassion, either.

Think of that core connection as a force multiplier: Trump is Gawd’s gift to them, Gawd’s people - just as the USA is Gawd’s gift to them. Everything about reality erodes that shell of protection they make for themselves. That’s why they constantly imagine that they’re under attack by demons (everything that isn’t protected by their kumbaya shields): it’s because they are so relentlessly boxed into a frame of reference that’s in basic conflict with much of what we’ve learned about the world, ourselves & each other over the last couple thousand years. Because of those fundamental incompatibilities, they end up feeling deprived, attacked, disrespected in almost every contact with reality that can’t be worked into their frame somehow. They act so defensive because they know how much damage they’re taking: they double & triple down because they’re already in too deep to change course - so holding the frame & its community together, by Jesus (whose bus is in the shop) & Donnie (who’s in the weeds) has become THE MOST IMPORTANT THING at hey can do.

EACH conviction of TDFFG & his henchlings for serious crimes against the nation, for deliberate attacks on the constitution, our elections, our state governments for the purpose of shredding the nation, & fundamentally lawless acts - and the years of fallout to follow - will hit ‘conservative America” like a wrecking ball. There isn’t enough kumbaya available to stand up to that, because it’s ONLY strength is in numbers.

The shell will break as a result of the number of individuals already at their limit where adherence to the frame is concerned: some mix of them will have their faith broken by trumps incarceration; I expect Christianity to take a big hit, too - it being the raw electoral mass that GOOP carved into MAGA. I expect the collective effect of closing the cell door to result in widespread disillusionment in their religion as well as their politics, their racist social structures, the policies that the guilty rode to power.

Very few people are 100% *anything* - almost everyone has things we cherished but put away to ‘avoid conflict’, old internal voices we’ve walled off, shoved away, refused to listen to, paths we chose to take & *not* to take in spite of what we really want(ed). People who have held themselves in check (often brutally) their whole lives will take the break as proof that they’ve been wrong about so much - and start to make choices they would never have made otherwise. The more repressed or suppressed, the more likely they are to bubble into awareness once the frame breaks - and in that period of disorientation, I think we’ll see a wave of people who have completely reversed how they live & express themselves. In other words, EXACTLY what the owner/ruler class has been MOST AFRAID OF.

OTOH, I have no doubt that not everyone will break - and undoubtedly some of them will take stochastic terrorism as their weapon of choice…and some will continue to team up to plant bombs, burn buildings, break into/out of jails, kidnap & kill people until caught or killed in turn. It will take a while to clean that up, but we will.

Anyhow, I’ve drifted again, a bit: main course is, leaving Trump in the wild has outlived its usefulness already (imo), and we shouldn’t neglect the catastrophic damage possibilities of completing the MAGA accountability arc.

“In RICO prosecutions we trust”
When it’s all said and done
His supporters will deny they ever were with him because after all he was a lifetime democrat :fire:
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
We can only take this line of thought so far: considering the split in the GOOP klavern, we can realistically expect that to fall out @ ~30% Trump, ~30% Trumpism, ~40% No Fucking Way. Even if we assume the base overall runs ~60% MAGA, the best he can expect is to squeeze by in the primary.

Next factor is the shock of reality: serious jail time, disqualification, his entire rap sheet.

Yes, he runs a delusional horde; much of that is built on his personal mythology. ACTUAL convictions, *actual* jail sentences, actual imprisonment won’t cost him his *entire* mindshare…but consider the sheer EFFORT to block out everything he’s done, to ignore their own brains in “support” of his hook in their amygdalae: they DON’T *WANT* to believe any of it so they tie themselves to him & to each other more tightly every day - it’s how the link to faith+Jesus is made and reinforced, too…so understand, please, just how DEEPLY the personal need to not be wrong again is rooted in that ~60% MAGA number.

Not out of any sense of compassion, either.

Think of that core connection as a force multiplier: Trump is Gawd’s gift to them, Gawd’s people - just as the USA is Gawd’s gift to them. Everything about reality erodes that shell of protection they make for themselves. That’s why they constantly imagine that they’re under attack by demons (everything that isn’t protected by their kumbaya shields): it’s because they are so relentlessly boxed into a frame of reference that’s in basic conflict with much of what we’ve learned about the world, ourselves & each other over the last couple thousand years. Because of those fundamental incompatibilities, they end up feeling deprived, attacked, disrespected in almost every contact with reality that can’t be worked into their frame somehow. They act so defensive because they know how much damage they’re taking: they double & triple down because they’re already in too deep to change course - so holding the frame & its community together, by Jesus (whose bus is in the shop) & Donnie (who’s in the weeds) has become THE MOST IMPORTANT THING at hey can do.

EACH conviction of TDFFG & his henchlings for serious crimes against the nation, for deliberate attacks on the constitution, our elections, our state governments for the purpose of shredding the nation, & fundamentally lawless acts - and the years of fallout to follow - will hit ‘conservative America” like a wrecking ball. There isn’t enough kumbaya available to stand up to that, because it’s ONLY strength is in numbers.

The shell will break as a result of the number of individuals already at their limit where adherence to the frame is concerned: some mix of them will have their faith broken by trumps incarceration; I expect Christianity to take a big hit, too - it being the raw electoral mass that GOOP carved into MAGA. I expect the collective effect of closing the cell door to result in widespread disillusionment in their religion as well as their politics, their racist social structures, the policies that the guilty rode to power.

Very few people are 100% *anything* - almost everyone has things we cherished but put away to ‘avoid conflict’, old internal voices we’ve walled off, shoved away, refused to listen to, paths we chose to take & *not* to take in spite of what we really want(ed). People who have held themselves in check (often brutally) their whole lives will take the break as proof that they’ve been wrong about so much - and start to make choices they would never have made otherwise. The more repressed or suppressed, the more likely they are to bubble into awareness once the frame breaks - and in that period of disorientation, I think we’ll see a wave of people who have completely reversed how they live & express themselves. In other words, EXACTLY what the owner/ruler class has been MOST AFRAID OF.

OTOH, I have no doubt that not everyone will break - and undoubtedly some of them will take stochastic terrorism as their weapon of choice…and some will continue to team up to plant bombs, burn buildings, break into/out of jails, kidnap & kill people until caught or killed in turn. It will take a while to clean that up, but we will.

Anyhow, I’ve drifted again, a bit: main course is, leaving Trump in the wild has outlived its usefulness already (imo), and we shouldn’t neglect the catastrophic damage possibilities of completing the MAGA accountability arc.

“In RICO prosecutions we trust”
You don't need to convince them, just outnumber them at the polls by enough. Trump is the great divider, and he is dividing the republican party or will, and that is exactly what you need. The longer he stays out of jail or prison, the more he will divide them and if he loses the nomination, he will attack the nominee and the party as "disloyal" RINOs. Not reason or logic, but Donald's sore asshole and need to get his ass out of prison will be the factors. If just 10% of the republicans stay home or write him on the ballot, they are fucked because the polls are so tight. I wouldn't waste my time convincing the idiots of anything other than to stay home or write Trump in on election day. The time and money would be better spent registering and getting younger people to vote and that is where women can make the biggest difference with a door knocking ground game and volunteering as election workers and candidates. Trump drives the youth vote, and it has increased significantly and blunted the red wave in 22. Abortion, education, censorship and guns will be big factors in 24 and the republicans are on the wrong side of them. To outnumber them, divide and conquer them. Trump will run in 24, either as the nominee or a bull moose and he will most likely run from a prison cell.

I'm not sure what would be best, Trump as the nominee, or Trump as a bull moose syphoning off votes for Meatball Ron, in either case I think he will be in a cell by election day. If he is the nominee, it will be the Whitehouse vs the big house, an historic match up if there ever was one!
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
While I largely agree with your thesis of that man losing support through sheer overwhelming erosion of ideology by event, I’m not at all convinced that Christianity will take a hit.

I do hope however that dominionism gets its wings clipped a bit. Having the most rabid Freedom Cockups as their talking heads has got to leave a mark.
Thanks for pointing out that I was unclear: I didn’t mean an ideological erosion - except in the sense that ideology is frequently rooted in unconscious thoughts, memories, and other things that we don’t look at coldly. I was specifically referring to the EMOTIONAL BLOW that people frequently suffer when the ”rocks” they’ve anchored themselves to, crumble as their frame breaks…and things stop making sense to them. This is common in situations involving big trauma - floods, landslides, war zones, disasters of all types. Apollo astronauts (& Capt. Kirk) have been through similar changes. Death, divorce, prison all have similar deep destabilizing effects.

The inevitable ‘psychic drift is destabilizing for people who thought they were anchored in bedrock, and folks with authoritarian tendencies or allegiances are *primed* for damage. It won’t change their *opinions*, it will change their *reality* - and their opinions will end up…someplace.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Thanks for pointing out that I was unclear: I didn’t mean an ideological erosion - except in the sense that ideology is frequently rooted in unconscious thoughts, memories, and other things that we don’t look at coldly. I was specifically referring to the EMOTIONAL BLOW that people frequently suffer when the ”rocks” they’ve anchored themselves to, crumble as their frame breaks…and things stop making sense to them. This is common in situations involving big trauma - floods, landslides, war zones, disasters of all types. Apollo astronauts (& Capt. Kirk) have been through similar changes. Death, divorce, prison all have similar deep destabilizing effects.

The inevitable ‘psychic drift is destabilizing for people who thought they were anchored in bedrock, and folks with authoritarian tendencies or allegiances are *primed* for damage. It won’t change their *opinions*, it will change their *reality* - and their opinions will end up…someplace.
I see tautology here, but I could be wrong.

It is my impression that people cling to flawed ideologies for deeply emotional reasons. The amygdala thing.

Thus any ideological erosion necessarily brings emotional trauma.

So while my focus was other, I imagine we were looking at the same Mount Fuji from different perspectives.

1684693856953.jpeg
 
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