dukeofbaja
New Member
I don't think making a lot of money will ever become unpopular, no matter how progressive the tax code gets.
I may have to start watching this dyke more often!
- Thread starter Dragline
- Start date
dukeofbaja
New Member
Good quote, I had a chuckle. But what are you getting at? I am not insightful enough to get it (or too stoned)
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
http://www.google.com/search?q=philosophy+of+liberty&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&prmd=v&tbs=vid:1
Click on the video "philosophy of liberty" . Thanks.
Duke , please consider checking this video out, it boils down a good bit of my philosophy.. After you have, I'll gladly answer your questions. I may be absent for a bit, until much later today.
You see, I've been agressed against for "improper gardening" by the "authorities" and I must meet with somebody to form a defense against those who INITIATED harm against me. Some day I may make those details public, maybe it will make a very interesting thread on this forum...not today though for obvious reasons. My liberty is very much in jeopardy. As usual I harmed nobody, yet those with the "mandate" are trying to harm me.
I look forward to continuing this discussion later. Peace.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Harming nobody and asking for the same is not a fabrication. It is a morally correct position. Positions that deviate from this rely upon rationalizations.
tinyTURTLE
Well-Known Member
it is a fabrication to imagine some system of government that doesn't make you pay taxes. We all pay taxes, and all of our taxes are spent on stuff we don't agree with. As well as stuff that we do agree with.
So pay your taxes and pretend it's all going to pay farmers to grow inedible corn for ethanol, or maybe buying bullets for the marines in afghanistan, or perhaps paying the salary of some US marshals to bring in a kidnapper or a murderer. Maybe your money is even being used to pay some park ranger somewhere on some nice national park land.
or
go on feeling persecuted and one day SNAP and kill your family.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Welcome back, Meddie!
And to be be more clear, there were never any "tax cuts for the rich" as you so eloquently put it. There were plenty of tax cuts for everybody, including those that paid no income taxes in the first place.
An Earned Income Tax Credit on taxes never paid in the first place.
That's otherwise known as welfare.
What would RIU be without Dr. Quinn throwing around the N-word every now and then?
Actually that's what the Proggies were calling it back in 2005, just to be clear.
And to be be more clear, there were never any "tax cuts for the rich" as you so eloquently put it. There were plenty of tax cuts for everybody, including those that paid no income taxes in the first place.
An Earned Income Tax Credit on taxes never paid in the first place.
That's otherwise known as welfare.
There's the old Meddie we all know and love.
What would RIU be without Dr. Quinn throwing around the N-word every now and then?
CrackerJax
New Member
It's about FORCING a citizen to purchase something from the govt. It's about being FINED if you don't.
Those aren't taxes..... it is unconstitutional.
CNN just polled the public at 25% approval. That's for the posters above who seem to think it is some kind of Repub ruse. CNN.... a tool of the right.
The dem's have run out of options. This is all they are left with,.....trying to blame someone else for their miserable performance. If they wanted health care (Dem's)....they could have done it before with a super majority. So it isn't the repub's..... but that's the desperation level in the White House. They only have "smear" left in their grab bag.
Those aren't taxes..... it is unconstitutional.
CNN just polled the public at 25% approval. That's for the posters above who seem to think it is some kind of Repub ruse. CNN.... a tool of the right.
The dem's have run out of options. This is all they are left with,.....trying to blame someone else for their miserable performance. If they wanted health care (Dem's)....they could have done it before with a super majority. So it isn't the repub's..... but that's the desperation level in the White House. They only have "smear" left in their grab bag.
dukeofbaja
New Member
You see, I've been agressed against for "improper gardening" by the "authorities" and I must meet with somebody to form a defense against those who INITIATED harm against me. Some day I may make those details public, maybe it will make a very interesting thread on this forum...not today though for obvious reasons. My liberty is very much in jeopardy. As usual I harmed nobody, yet those with the "mandate" are trying to harm me.
That is fucked up shit. I will hope for good vibes to go your way. Good luck man
That is fucked up shit. I will hope for good vibes to go your way. Good luck man
Dragline
Well-Known Member
Ahh the mandate!!! The unconstitutional Republican idea to which they were for it before they were against it.
Hypocrite much? When confronted with the FACT that the public option always has and still does poll very high, you gave this answer.
"Please don't try and quote polls as an indicator that the public wants health care run by the government. You're just going to end up a liar."
BTW, if i was polled right now I would without a doubt say I was against it too. This is not real reform and it is in my opinion the bill is all but worthless. But the right wing can't wrap their simple one track minds around the fact that some people might disapprove of this bill for reason other than their own. Using logic and reason one can easily see that the weaker and more worthless this bill becomes, the lower in the opinion polls it goes. But nobody ever accused the right wing fringe of using logic and reason.
CrackerJax
New Member
Ur insane..... every poll shows Obama health care bill to be a LOSER.
You need to get out more.
Govt. run health care has been pushed for 50 YEARS. 50....
There is a REASON why it keeps getting defeated.
If it does pass, it will only be another indicator that the society today in the USA is unable to carry the water.
This may be the failed generation.
You need to get out more.
Govt. run health care has been pushed for 50 YEARS. 50....
There is a REASON why it keeps getting defeated.
If it does pass, it will only be another indicator that the society today in the USA is unable to carry the water.
This may be the failed generation.
Dragline
Well-Known Member
DUH!!!!!!!!!! I have NEVER argued with you about that. Didn't I just finish saying even I don't like the current bill? Im talking the public option and ONLY the public option. Do i need to get Glenn Beck to write it on a chalk board for you? I don't know how to make it more clear!
CrackerJax
New Member
No one wants GOVT. health care.
Put all the lipstick you want on that PIG, but it's still a pig.
the govt. is NOT NOT NOT the answer to health care costs.
EVERY bill put forth so far.... will only INCREASE the costs.
NO ONE WANTS IT. No one truly informed that is.
Put all the lipstick you want on that PIG, but it's still a pig.
the govt. is NOT NOT NOT the answer to health care costs.
EVERY bill put forth so far.... will only INCREASE the costs.
NO ONE WANTS IT. No one truly informed that is.
Dragline
Well-Known Member
Ahhhh yes, the old "anyone who is for it can't be truly informed"... And people accuse Liberals of thinking they are smarter than everyone else.
CrackerJax
New Member
It's so true.... only the lazy and uninformed are for Govt. health care.
They either don't know any better or are simply attracted to a "perceived" handout.
there is a small percentage at the top who stand to make $$$$ off of it...and yes of course they are all for it... greed.
100% accurate.
UHHH, no one accuses liberals of being too smart. the perception is exactly the opposite.
They either don't know any better or are simply attracted to a "perceived" handout.
there is a small percentage at the top who stand to make $$$$ off of it...and yes of course they are all for it... greed.
100% accurate.
UHHH, no one accuses liberals of being too smart. the perception is exactly the opposite.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Switzerland voted for universal health care on a referendum that passed with the slimmest of margins. And now their health care is one of the things they are most proud of. In fact, every rich capitalist democracy has government in health care in some way or the other, and they all pay way less than we do, by significant margins. Not only that, the folks under those 'socialist regimes' report higher rates of satisfaction with their health care than Americans on privae plans, by and large.
To argue against reforming our healthcare system is to argue for future bankruptcy. We pay 17% of gdp for health care, way more than any other rich capitalist democracy, yet we do not even get what they get - universal health care.
Go ahead and come back at me with the whole 'we lead the way in innovation' argument. Perhaps, for now, but have you looked at the innovations coming out of Taiwan and Japan? Or Germany? Or France? Or Switzerland? All of these socialist government run universal health care schemes all have enviable advances. And just because we have the most advanced health care innovation in the world, what does it matter when only the richest of citizens have access?
Yes, it is clear that to fight for keeping our current systme in place in the most short-sighted, misinformed stance you can take. I hope anyone arguing this position gets dropped by their insurer and then can't get insured elsewhere because of their pre-existing condition.
Best in the world? My ass...
To argue against reforming our healthcare system is to argue for future bankruptcy. We pay 17% of gdp for health care, way more than any other rich capitalist democracy, yet we do not even get what they get - universal health care.
Go ahead and come back at me with the whole 'we lead the way in innovation' argument. Perhaps, for now, but have you looked at the innovations coming out of Taiwan and Japan? Or Germany? Or France? Or Switzerland? All of these socialist government run universal health care schemes all have enviable advances. And just because we have the most advanced health care innovation in the world, what does it matter when only the richest of citizens have access?
Yes, it is clear that to fight for keeping our current systme in place in the most short-sighted, misinformed stance you can take. I hope anyone arguing this position gets dropped by their insurer and then can't get insured elsewhere because of their pre-existing condition.
Best in the world? My ass...
CrackerJax
New Member
We aren't Sweden...not everything is interchangeable.
the facts which seem to keep eluding you folks is that Obama's plan won't REDUCE costs one iota.
The country wanted health care reform ... not a takeover by a debt ridden govt. entity that can't take two nickels and make a dime.
Yes, the USA has the best health care in the world ... where it counts.... technology and SURVIVAL rates.
Life expectancy charts are useless since the EU uses different parameters to measure life. Not an indicator of anything. cancer survivability is a far better indicator. we are at the TOP....there and with most other SERIOUS diseases.
Americans don't want socialized medicine so we can get band aids....
the facts which seem to keep eluding you folks is that Obama's plan won't REDUCE costs one iota.
The country wanted health care reform ... not a takeover by a debt ridden govt. entity that can't take two nickels and make a dime.
Yes, the USA has the best health care in the world ... where it counts.... technology and SURVIVAL rates.
Life expectancy charts are useless since the EU uses different parameters to measure life. Not an indicator of anything. cancer survivability is a far better indicator. we are at the TOP....there and with most other SERIOUS diseases.
Americans don't want socialized medicine so we can get band aids....
tinyTURTLE
Well-Known Member
yeah! and lets also scrap medicare, that shit just doesn't work and nobody likes it. Let's also get rid of that useless FBI and that money-pit, the US army. and the BIG money pit, the US air-force. Fucking waste of money f-22s, what hunks of junk. Oh wait, the DEA has also got to go, that agency hasn't EVER worked.
the FACT that keeps eluding CJ is that under the current system, prices are set to keep increasing at record rates. without having any extra benefit, without having more people covered, it'll just be more expensive.
and you are a little bit confused as to what really defines how good a health care system is.
you seem to think is how many high quality and sophisticated treatments are available.
no.
it's how accessible even the most mundane amount of health care is. in the rest of the world, it's very accessible. an emergency room visit, because you're 5 year-old may be dehydrated because he ate some bad lunch at school that made him sick, it's alright. they go to the hospital, the child gets treated, no charge for EVERYBODY, no matter what, that child gets treated.
. in the US, it's 1200 bucks if you don't have insurance, if you do have it, it's 300 dollar deductible, plus an emergency room fee of 50 dollars.
you don't see where that's a little unfair, considering THEY spend far LESS per capita, and they get far MORE.
and you are a little bit confused as to what really defines how good a health care system is.
you seem to think is how many high quality and sophisticated treatments are available.
no.
it's how accessible even the most mundane amount of health care is. in the rest of the world, it's very accessible. an emergency room visit, because you're 5 year-old may be dehydrated because he ate some bad lunch at school that made him sick, it's alright. they go to the hospital, the child gets treated, no charge for EVERYBODY, no matter what, that child gets treated.
. in the US, it's 1200 bucks if you don't have insurance, if you do have it, it's 300 dollar deductible, plus an emergency room fee of 50 dollars.
you don't see where that's a little unfair, considering THEY spend far LESS per capita, and they get far MORE.
tinyTURTLE
Well-Known Member
cracker jax is obviously a CEO for blue cross or cigna or some-such company.
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