How many of you are ex-diehard Obama lovers

[CrackerJax]

Well Balz.... You got that one right.

I always give credit when credit is due.

But Socialism is closer to fascism than it is to capitalism.

It is also highly inefficient and robs the individual spirit....just like communism.

And only the left liquidates its own ppl. historically.

 

[londonfog]

Fire Departments are not a Federal issue. They are administered locally under the supervision of each state.

Same thing goes for Police .

And, big surprise, the same thing goes for Health Care or Health Insurance or whatever term the Proggies are using today. It is a state issue.

And for the record, I never referred to you as a 'stooooopid college kid.'

You took care of that yourself.

But they do receive federal funding which can dictate what can and cannot be done.. so it is a Federal issue

 

[CrackerJax]

It's a false analogy and the two are not comparable. Apples and Oranges.

What can and what cannot be done? As in what as an example.... to either put a fire out or not?

As opposed to what medical procedure you can have determined by the govt.?

Laughable.

 

[Balzac89]

The doctor decides, how would it be beneficial if the government was the same as the insurance company?

 

[CrackerJax]

You are catching on..... there is no benefit to having the govt. act as an insurance company.

That's why the polls constantly show the ppl don't want it.

 

[Balzac89]

In every country that has universal health coverage the doctors choose what the patient needs because it was created to beefit the people not the government.

 

[Illegal Smile]

In every country that has universal health coverage the doctors choose what the patient needs because it was created to beefit the people not the government.

Doctors choose what they need then bureaucrats who used to work at DMV decide in how many months or years they might actually get it.

 

[CrackerJax]

In socialized countries the doctors make a "recommendation". The decision is made by the govt. to do it or not.

No one in the USA with half a brain wants that.

In this country, we are used to making out on our own. We're not like Europe, and we don't want to be. We enjoy having superior health care.

I'd rather pay and live .

 

[Dragline]

Doctors choose what they need then bureaucrats who used to work at DMV decide in how many months or years they might actually get it.

In socialized countries the doctors make a "recommendation". The decision is made by the govt. to do it or not.

.

And somehow this is scarier than the corporate bureaucrat who currently makes your healthcare decisions based on profit for their company.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

And somehow this is scarier than the corporate bureaucrat who currently makes your healthcare decisions based on profit for their company.

The doctor makes the decision. Always has.

The 'corporate bureaucrat' determines if the company has an obligation to pay for the procedure based on the level of coverage purchased.

What is truly scary is a scheme incorporating the doctor into the government bureaucracy. Which is the ultimate goal of the single payer system.

Which is why it was rejected by the people.

And the half-measures currently under consideration are not fooling anybody but the true believers, a.k.a. saps.

 

[abe23]

You see, CJ, your idiotic post above just shows how much you know. Have you ever had to deal with healthcare providers in "socialized countries"? When I lived in france, my girlfriend had a couple of scares with lumps in her breasts that turned out to be benign but required biopsies, surgery and god knows what else. She had access to one of the best cancer institutes in the world and never had to worry for one second about how to pay for it. Everything was covered by the public government insurance. I would hate to imagine the same scenario in the US without coverage or with shitty high-deductible, yearly cap coverage. I don't know a single person in france who has been dissatisfied with the healthcare they received...not one. So stop with this bullshit about how under "socialized medicine" you get denied treatment. It's not true. In fact, a for-profit american insurance company is much more likely to deny you access to treatment than a single-payer system.

And that's the thing I find funniest....you don't want a government bureaucrat coming between you and your healthcare, but if it's some insurance company bureaucrat it's fine. And guess what? Despite all the bullshit and slogans, the actual proposal for healthcare reform under consideration right now would let you keep your insurance company hack, just force him to play by some new rules. Like you can't deny people coverage or you can't drop someone's coverage when they become sick. Stop spreading your retarded hysteria about what's in this bill. It's NOT the government running healthcare, it's basically what we have in MA.....which was put into place by, yes, mitt romney. Again, good politics isn't always good policy and vice-versa. You don't seem to understand the difference.

 

[abe23]

The doctor makes the decision. Always has.

The 'corporate bureaucrat' determines if the company has an obligation to pay for the procedure based on the level of coverage purchased.

What is truly scary is a scheme incorporating the doctor into the government bureaucracy. Which is the ultimate goal of the single payer system.

Which is why it was rejected by the people.

And the half-measures currently under consideration are not fooling anybody but the true believers, a.k.a. saps.

Uh huh. So it's either the healthcare gulag or the free-for-all we have currently, huh? Is there no room for sensible regulation of the insurance market, johnny? Because that's what's being discussed.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Sensible regulation would naturally include tort reform and provisions allowing health insurance companies to offer their products across state lines.

But for some reason, the Proggies refuse to consider real reforms which would actually reduce cost.

 

[CrackerJax]

I would respond but it would be an echo of JO's post.

Exactly correct. You don't understand how the model actually works. It does work, better than anyone else's too. It simply costs a bit more. There are ways to lower those costs for everybody WITHOUT handing it over to the govt.

To think the govt. can somehow do a better job, one has to completely ignore Medicare.

Now this is life lesson time.... so sit up straight. Learn something that will help you for the rest of your life when it comes to the govt.

When the government comes along and tells you they are going to lower costs....you just look at like someone coming to you with a proposal. that's what it is...a proposal. The first thing one has to consider is the track record of SUCCESS.

Health care? Government? Success? Where?

Here is the closest parallel to the Obama proposal..... Medicare.

Medicare has as of right now $38.7 trillion dollars of unfunded obligations. Okay...that's trillion ...38.7 of them.

Now here it comes ... do you honestly think that when Medicare was passed all those years ago..... do you honestly think the politicians told everyone that the projected losses in XXX many years would be $38 TRILLION dollars? Do you?

At some point you must learn to separate the chaff from the wheat.

 

[abe23]

I would respond but it would be an echo of JO's post.

Exactly correct. You don't understand how the model actually works. It does work, better than anyone else's too. It simply costs a bit more. There are ways to lower those costs for everybody WITHOUT handing it over to the govt.

To think the govt. can somehow do a better job, one has to completely ignore Medicare.

Now this is life lesson time.... so sit up straight. Learn something that will help you for the rest of your life when it comes to the govt.

When the government comes along and tells you they are going to lower costs....you just look at like someone coming to you with a proposal. that's what it is...a proposal. The first thing one has to consider is the track record of SUCCESS.

Health care? Government? Success? Where?

Here is the closest parallel to the Obama proposal..... Medicare.

Medicare has as of right now $38.7 trillion dollars of unfunded obligations. Okay...that's trillion ...38.7 of them.

Now here it comes ... do you honestly think that when Medicare was passed all those years ago..... do you honestly think the politicians told everyone that the projected losses in XXX many years would be $38 TRILLION dollars? Do you?

At some point you must learn to separate the chaff from the wheat.

Ok, so i guess instead of actually responding, you would rather keep attacking your single-payer straw-man. Hint: nobody has been talking about government-run healthcare in the US other than you...all the bills are about regulating an industry that's gone off the reservation.

The reason medicare is so expensive is that it's basically a pool of people certain to have expensive healthcare issues. If you added everyone to medicare, young and healthy included, overall costs would down...

So you don't want single-payer. You don't want a regulated free-market system, either. I think pretty much everyone agrees the current system needs fixing...actually, you and rush limbaugh might not. Do you have any other ideas? Tort reform....?

And johnny, i was hoping you could do better than that. Seriously? Tort reform? That would fix everything?

 

[NLNo5]

I wish you could tell that to my two neices who at 12 and 14, just lost their Mother after her 3rd battle with cancer.

Because my sister-in-laws job was hit with a 40% increase in health premiums, they were forced to scale back their amount of benefits, as opposed to not having any at all, As a result she obtained a policy with a 250,000$ LIFE TIME BENEFIT. Because of her previous battles with cancer, IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO RECEIVE INSURANCE FROM ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE OF AN INSURANCE TERM CALLED.....PREEXISTING CONDITION.

On April 26 2009, We were informed from the insurance company that benefits would not longer be paid and any financial support after xxxx date will be paid for by...you. Well except the problem was she sold her house, which was the familys sole asset and equity to cover "out of pocket" expenses co-pays 80/20s and ect.

Long story short, my sister died. She lost her life and things she worked for in her short life because SHE GOT SICK.

In the end I guess its an opinion of whether you believed Health Care is a Right......or a privledge.

Obamas Bill would have done the following in my sisters case.

Eliminate LIFETIME $$ LIMITS.
Eliminate PREEXISTING CONDITIONS to get insurance else where.
A PUBLIC OPTION, Would have saved her family from losing their HOME.


BTW, My mother who is a Navy Veteran, has fought cancer 3x with success! And guess what, SHE HAS GOVERNMENT VA INSURANCE. She received and continues to recevieves GREAT care from the government.

People are going to die, it's certain like taxes. But do we need to allow our country to go further down the welfare road.

Citizens need to realize that the Fed is only good at cashing checks. Citizens must take care of themselves, that is what opportunity is all about. Land of the free home of the brave. We need to get off our asses and take care of ourselves.

Everyone is going to die some day, the Fed can't help us avoid that any better than your own self.

Live free, make the Fed accountable for helping to bankrupt the US. Stop wining, save your money, take responsibility for your life, no one else will.

Peace

 

[NLNo5]

The fed used to be there to protect the union. Founding fathers said there was seldom a good reason to go to war. There was a 10 year limit on licensing for corporations and the corporate product had to be good for the people. Now we go to war every 5-10 years and corporations have lifetime licenses and rule the show. never mind how f'ed up the nations financial institutions are.

Now the whole job of the fed is to facilitate the robbery of the common citizen. The oligarchy above the gov. is constantly finding ways to get your money. We pay SS and medicare tax and we will never see a dime of it. Not only that but you have to pay that damn tax, you can't work and not pay. How democratic is that?

The only one looking after you is you man. Well me too. I'm looking after all of us common citizens. We can't trust our Gov. The republic is falling, save your money, plant your own food, install a rainwater collection system, buy less stuff. Invest in gold. Because our nation is bankrupt, we are going to hit the fan within the next 5-10 years. There is no way out. Prepare yourselves, unite with you local communities, it is the only way to survive.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Ok, so i guess instead of actually responding, you would rather keep attacking your single-payer straw-man. Hint: nobody has been talking about government-run healthcare in the US other than you...all the bills are about regulating an industry that's gone off the reservation.

The reason medicare is so expensive is that it's basically a pool of people certain to have expensive healthcare issues. If you added everyone to medicare, young and healthy included, overall costs would down...

So you don't want single-payer. You don't want a regulated free-market system, either. I think pretty much everyone agrees the current system needs fixing...actually, you and rush limbaugh might not. Do you have any other ideas? Tort reform....?

And johnny, i was hoping you could do better than that. Seriously? Tort reform? That would fix everything?

Are you denying the fact that frivolous medical malpractice cases are driving up the cost of medical treatment? If so, maybe it is you who are not serious.

But not so surprising consider in whose pockets (trial lawyers) the Democrats are so comfortable dwelling. Perhaps I am mistaken if I think the party of John Edwards will abandon the trial lawyers.

And there is another reason why health care is expensive. Research & development. Which will grind to a halt once the government takes over.

Another reason, how much of our health care dollars are diverted for the treatment, by law, of people who are here illegally? They are invaders, yet we treat them.

In the private sector expensive means better. Not so in the public sector.

 

[NLNo5]

It makes me laugh and proves my point. Everybody loves the president. And anybody with half a wit knows the pres can't do shit for the american people. Ever since JFK the pres has been a puppet.

Get real people. There will be no change unless we walk the streets and demand a change. Start in your local communities, then your state, then the nation.

I don't like terrorists any more than the rest of you, but I like my freedom more than my security and safety. Those wars are a big ploy to give money to the MIC (military industrial complex). Every day we are at war is another day we all get robbed by the few at the top of the pyramid. And we are killing human beings like flies to do it. That's just damn wrong no matter how you slice it.

Just wait until they start asking you for more tax money to pay for all that un-democratic b.s. going on at DC. I'm a free man and I'm getting ready for the revolution. This republic is falling people. Live free and die hard baby.

 

[CrackerJax]

I'm talking about cost..... and the medicare analysis is SPOT ON....

You won't address the REAL issue, because you can't. You'd be lying, just like D.C. is lying now.