Half of US pays no Fed tax.

[ink the world]

This made me laugh. A lot. Hahaha.

Heheh laugh at this wise ass, I make $100 an hour when Im tattooing and clear $40 an hour from the tattooist that WORKS FOR ME.
Answer me this funny man, how many people do you employ and what kind of business do you own?

 

[ViRedd]

There is a hell of a lot more than 50% not paying federal taxes. What would the percentage be if the underground economy were to be included?

 

[jeff f]

LOL Rick, glad you showed up. I appreciate the insults , but you are off base as usual.

I DO OWN my own small business. I own a tattoo shop I have a piercer, another tattooist and a desk girl that are employed by me.

The tattooist and piercer receive 70% of all their monies earned. I EXCEED the industry standard in pay by 10%. My desk girl gets paid $12 an hour and gets a monthly bonus based on the amount of appointments she books.

Keep the employees happy and feeling some kind of a personal ownership and they will return the favor in spades.


Now on to how an ADULT can survive off of $10 an hour (lets include a wife and child)

Using your argument from another post about $10 an hour employees, lets run with that pay rate Rick.


$1600 monthly gross income, about $1,200 after taxes.

Average rent for a 2 bedroom apt where I live taken from Craigslist is $950 a 1 bedroom is $750.

So after just paying rent alone our fictional (yet so realistic) family has $250 - $450 a month to live on. Again, lets take the average and assume they have $350 a month to live on.

So that $350 a month has to pay for food, electricity, heat. Im in New England, it gets cold in winter our average heating cost is around $150 a month.

They now have $200 to pay for food for a family of 3, that is doable I guess if you shop right.

Our fictional family is now broke and without electricity, or health insurance, or $ for gas for the car they cant insure,repair, or make payments on.



Rick, I have no problem with you paying someone $10 an hour. I also work days in a kitchen, our dishwashers get paid $10 an hour.

The differnece being our expectations of a $10 an hour employee. You seem to think that that wage is something that an adult can be happy or proud of. Like someone is supposed to be grateful to you for paying them what they cant survive off of.

Be real man, the numbers dont add up.. You pay a lowball wage that an adult cant live on and all you are ever going to get for employees is the bottom of the barrel.

Again Rick I accuse you of the very thing you accuse me of "entitlement" You seem to think you entitled to quality people for non quality pay.

you pay the wage because you CAN and still be profitable. it doesnt matter what you pay an employee if you dont make money. no money no company. free market....get it?
prolly not

why dont you pay the girl at the desk 15 bucks? or the other artists 80%? what? are you just greedy and making more moeny than them?

using pay as a motivator for good workers is fine but completely different than a free market in employment.

primary example, go down to your local county courthouse and ask one of the highest paid, union employees to do something for you. good luck. i bet if they feared for their job because they could be replaced and made less money and less benefits they would scramble like chickens with their heads cut off in an effort to impress the person paying them for their services.

and by the way the govt employees now make more than private sector employees yet are responsible for little to no productivity. ever heard of reverse robin hood?

 

[RickWhite]

Heheh laugh at this wise ass, I make $100 an hour when Im tattooing and clear $40 an hour from the tattooist that WORKS FOR ME.
Answer me this funny man, how many people do you employ and what kind of business do you own?

Congratulations. I love a good tattoo shop. I hope you do great work and run an ethical operation. I hate those places with one good artist that brings people in and then a bunch of stamp art hacks that they pass people off to.

I am in manufacturing and while we are a small operation we did gross 9K this week. And we are growing.

As far as my employees - I hire mainly for menial, low paying jobs at this point. When we need a higher paying guy, I will look to hire one. Right now we have a sales girl who gets paid commission. In reality, she gets paid to shove her tits in the face of perspective clients and she can make $100 with a single phone call. She is sitting on a golden ticket - that's life.

You on the other hand employ highly skilled people with rare skills. You receive a percentage of what your people bring in - in reality, you pay people commission which is directly related to their performance. Don't you find it odd that you are arguing that people ought to be paid a certain wage regardless of performance when you have your own pay scale directly linked to your employee's market value. I bet if you had a world class guy, he would make a lot more than one who was mediocre. Are you saying this is unfair?

 

[deprave]

Really questionable statistics here, I only make 30k a year and I have to pay roughly 1k to state and federal this year even after claiming a dependant and several deductions..not something unusual for me, I have had OWED for 3 years now on my low income.

for the most part..they are just twisting the numbers in this article...family of 5 earning 50,000k - should they really all owe money if the made under minimum wage per person common now

 

[ink the world]

Don't you find it odd that you are arguing that people ought to be paid a certain wage regardless of performance when you have your own pay scale directly linked to your employee's market value. I bet if you had a world class guy, he would make a lot more than one who was mediocre. Are you saying this is unfair?

Not at all unfair Rick, and believe it or not I actually agree w/ you.

Again, my point was that you seemed to be complaining about the work ethic that you get w/ a $10 an hour employee. That is all.

It strikes me as kinda funny that most of the posters here are jumping on my back for something I NEVER said.

I NEVER said that it unfair to pay someone $10 an hour, not once. I DID say that if you're going to pay someone at that rate you shouldn't expect "employee of the month" types.

Rick thanks for keeping it a civil adult conversation. If we ALL did that more often I think that we'd probably see that we all are closer in thoughts than we think we are.

 

[RickWhite]

Not at all unfair Rick, and believe it or not I actually agree w/ you.

Again, my point was that you seemed to be complaining about the work ethic that you get w/ a $10 an hour employee. That is all.

It strikes me as kinda funny that most of the posters here are jumping on my back for something I NEVER said.

I NEVER said that it unfair to pay someone $10 an hour, not once. I DID say that if you're going to pay someone at that rate you shouldn't expect "employee of the month" types.

Rick thanks for keeping it a civil adult conversation. If we ALL did that more often I think that we'd probably see that we all are closer in thoughts than we think we are.

I never complained at all - you missed the point. I know perfectly well that I will get what I pay for - that was my point.

My point, was that if a man in his peak earning years is applying for a $10 per hour job, it is probably because he is a fuck up with a poor work ethic and not because life has never afforded him better opportunities.

Now, there are people who have really been unfairly oppressed by life and just need a chance. Think of a 20 year old kid who does 20 years for a false murder charge. Or, even a person such as myself why was systematically denied an education.

The very worst cases are the people who are destroyed by bad parenting. Often, the most critical tool for success, their brain, has been damaged in such a way that they lack the tools to be successful. We see these people every day. many of the people here probably are such people and will never know it.

We have all met those guys who always act like a hard ass everywhere they go and can never seem to get along with others. Well, that comes from child abuse. And that person completely lacks self awareness which is far too painful. So, they act out and become delinquent teens, wind up in trouble with the law and their life just spirals downward. Of course as adults, they become complete ass holes. Much of the time they are proud of their criminal records etc. The same thing happens in the ghetto where young kids grow to become the product of their environment.

See, personal character is learned. Kids grow up to emulate their role models. If dad was a diplomatic, charismatic, professional gentleman that is what his kid is going to become. If dad was a drunken redneck or a prison thug that too is what his kid will become. And this is not something our schools can teach. For this, we would need full time boarding schools beginning at a young age.

The answer to all of our problems is the spread of traditional values. It is my wish that there was some way we could create a virus that spread these values and let it affect everyone. If we could do this, our problems would be solved.

 

[abe23]

It's really interesting that conservatives should be bitching about fewer and fewer people paying taxes and how our deficits and national debt are growing at alarming rates....

YOU WANTED TAX CUTS!!!!!

Remember? All those years? In fact... most of you are still beating that same drum today!

Basically yes, if you constantly cut taxes on everyone you end up with deficits and 50% of people paying no taxes...

 

[Man o' the green]

It's really interesting that conservatives should be bitching about fewer and fewer people paying taxes and how our deficits and national debt are growing at alarming rates....

YOU WANTED TAX CUTS!!!!!

Remember? All those years? In fact... most of you are still beating that same drum today!

Basically yes, if you constantly cut taxes on everyone you end up with deficits and 50% of people paying no taxes...

Half of us, apparently, are not overtaxed. It's the taxes on the job creators that are at issue.
And the solution is not tax cuts, but tax and spending cuts.

 

[Keenly2]

I never complained at all - you missed the point. I know perfectly well that I will get what I pay for - that was my point.

My point, was that if a man in his peak earning years is applying for a $10 per hour job, it is probably because he is a fuck up with a poor work ethic and not because life has never afforded him better opportunities.

Now, there are people who have really been unfairly oppressed by life and just need a chance. Think of a 20 year old kid who does 20 years for a false murder charge. Or, even a person such as myself why was systematically denied an education.

The very worst cases are the people who are destroyed by bad parenting. Often, the most critical tool for success, their brain, has been damaged in such a way that they lack the tools to be successful. We see these people every day. many of the people here probably are such people and will never know it.

We have all met those guys who always act like a hard ass everywhere they go and can never seem to get along with others. Well, that comes from child abuse. And that person completely lacks self awareness which is far too painful. So, they act out and become delinquent teens, wind up in trouble with the law and their life just spirals downward. Of course as adults, they become complete ass holes. Much of the time they are proud of their criminal records etc. The same thing happens in the ghetto where young kids grow to become the product of their environment.

See, personal character is learned. Kids grow up to emulate their role models. If dad was a diplomatic, charismatic, professional gentleman that is what his kid is going to become. If dad was a drunken redneck or a prison thug that too is what his kid will become. And this is not something our schools can teach. For this, we would need full time boarding schools beginning at a young age.

The answer to all of our problems is the spread of traditional values. It is my wish that there was some way we could create a virus that spread these values and let it affect everyone. If we could do this, our problems would be solved.

this isnt the first time you have been completely wrong about my life


i suffered some pretty bad child abuse until i was about 10 and my mother grew the testicles to kick the douchebag out


i dont, nor have i ever, acted like a jack ass



do not make generalizations like this as it makes you sound extremely ignorant

 

[jeff f]

I never complained at all - you missed the point. I know perfectly well that I will get what I pay for - that was my point.

My point, was that if a man in his peak earning years is applying for a $10 per hour job, it is probably because he is a fuck up with a poor work ethic and not because life has never afforded him better opportunities.

Now, there are people who have really been unfairly oppressed by life and just need a chance. Think of a 20 year old kid who does 20 years for a false murder charge. Or, even a person such as myself why was systematically denied an education.

The very worst cases are the people who are destroyed by bad parenting. Often, the most critical tool for success, their brain, has been damaged in such a way that they lack the tools to be successful. We see these people every day. many of the people here probably are such people and will never know it.

We have all met those guys who always act like a hard ass everywhere they go and can never seem to get along with others. Well, that comes from child abuse. And that person completely lacks self awareness which is far too painful. So, they act out and become delinquent teens, wind up in trouble with the law and their life just spirals downward. Of course as adults, they become complete ass holes. Much of the time they are proud of their criminal records etc. The same thing happens in the ghetto where young kids grow to become the product of their environment.

See, personal character is learned. Kids grow up to emulate their role models. If dad was a diplomatic, charismatic, professional gentleman that is what his kid is going to become. If dad was a drunken redneck or a prison thug that too is what his kid will become. And this is not something our schools can teach. For this, we would need full time boarding schools beginning at a young age.

The answer to all of our problems is the spread of traditional values. It is my wish that there was some way we could create a virus that spread these values and let it affect everyone. If we could do this, our problems would be solved.

rick you know i love ya man, but this is largely hogwash.

grown ups are responsible for what they do or dont do....period.

so you had a rough childhood....get the fuck over it. most of us had it rough compaired to todays standards....so fucking what.

in your example , if i remember correctly you are dislexic, you proved that people are capable of overcoming challenges. you arent any better or worse than anyone else. what makes you think you are the only one who can do that?

problem is with the govt now, they only want to hold back the people who overcome adversity. instead of trying to help everyone succeed, they want to bring everybody to the same level. unfortunately that level is down.

 

[jeff f]

It's really interesting that conservatives should be bitching about fewer and fewer people paying taxes and how our deficits and national debt are growing at alarming rates....

YOU WANTED TAX CUTS!!!!!

Remember? All those years? In fact... most of you are still beating that same drum today!

Basically yes, if you constantly cut taxes on everyone you end up with deficits and 50% of people paying no taxes...

your argument is contrary to facts on the ground.

when taxes are CUT govt takes IN more revenue.

the concept is simple and has proven true in every significant tax cut in history starting with kennedy.

when you cut taxes the economy expands because people have more money in their pocket. more jobs/businesses are created putting more people on payrolls, who in turn pay taxes. waalaa more revenue. sorta like walmart.

if they want to make more money, do they raise prices or lower them?

lower them, then they get more people buying stuff. even though the profit margin per item decreases, the over all revenue increases because you have more people buying the product.

dont believ me? look it up. i would do it for you but it does take some sorting through govt spreadsheets and i am watching a good hockey game right now.

 

[jeff f]

nevermind this one is going to overtime.
http://www.tomllewis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/tax-revenues-8-03.jpg

here is a decent chart but only goes back to 80. i have seen better ones but noltice after reagan tax cuts and bush tax cuts 82, 02 the drastic increase in revenue?

yet when taxes were increased under bush 1 and clinton, only slight increases or declines. the real problem is the spending. it doesnt matter if i make 30 grand a year or 300 grand a month. if i spend 30% more than i take in....i am still just as broke.

 

[ViRedd]

If 50% are paying taxes and 50% are not, then why aren't the Progressives complaining about the lack of "patriotism" being displayed by those who are not paying taxes? Isn't that part of the Progressive mantra ... that its your patriotic duty to pay taxes? I think I remember seeing Joe Biden make that statement.

What say you, Progressives??

 

[RickWhite]

rick you know i love ya man, but this is largely hogwash.

grown ups are responsible for what they do or dont do....period.

so you had a rough childhood....get the fuck over it. most of us had it rough compaired to todays standards....so fucking what.

in your example , if i remember correctly you are dislexic, you proved that people are capable of overcoming challenges. you arent any better or worse than anyone else. what makes you think you are the only one who can do that?

problem is with the govt now, they only want to hold back the people who overcome adversity. instead of trying to help everyone succeed, they want to bring everybody to the same level. unfortunately that level is down.

You're missing the point. Many people as a result of things that happen in their childhood are rendered incapable of making good decisions and conducting themselves in a manner conducive to success. The fact is, their parents did not equip them with the necessary tools. You can't expect a kid who was raised by a pack of wolves to know how to conduct himself at a formal dinner party.

I am not bringing this up in order to make excuses for people or to suggest that their problems become everybody else's problems. I bring it up so that people understand how important traditional values are in life and what a critical role they play in individual success.

See, Liberals are always prattling on about how giving the poor money is the answer to everything. I'm trying to explain that a successful frame of mind comes from the home and from the values of that home. Money is not required to have good values, but without them, making money is highly improbable.

In other words, what matters is not whether or not you live in a 8000 square foot house, but whether or not you have parents that are good role models. Whether or not you have parents that get up and go to work every day and are not afraid to put the smack down on you when you need it but at the same time provide a loving and nurturing environment.

These are the things that matter in the development of a child and they are not something that can not be provided by state run social programs. Really, I fail to see why this isn't obvious to everyone.

 

[RickWhite]

I think all new business' that earn under a given amount should not pay taxes for the first 5 years. If you want to stimulate the economy and create jobs, that is one way to do it.

Now, Obama is considering a VAT tax. I am in manufacturing and wouldn't even know what to do with that. Just the additional accounting required looks like it would be a nightmare.

 

[jeff f]

You're missing the point. Many people as a result of things that happen in their childhood are rendered incapable of making good decisions and conducting themselves in a manner conducive to success. The fact is, their parents did not equip them with the necessary tools. You can't expect a kid who was raised by a pack of wolves to know how to conduct himself at a formal dinner party.

I am not bringing this up in order to make excuses for people or to suggest that their problems become everybody else's problems. I bring it up so that people understand how important traditional values are in life and what a critical role they play in individual success.

See, Liberals are always prattling on about how giving the poor money is the answer to everything. I'm trying to explain that a successful frame of mind comes from the home and from the values of that home. Money is not required to have good values, but without them, making money is highly improbable.

In other words, what matters is not whether or not you live in a 8000 square foot house, but whether or not you have parents that are good role models. Whether or not you have parents that get up and go to work every day and are not afraid to put the smack down on you when you need it but at the same time provide a loving and nurturing environment.

These are the things that matter in the development of a child and they are not something that can be provided by state run social programs. Really, I fail to see why this isn't obvious to everyone.

you are still on very thin ice.

i will give you this, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL (and nothing is ever equal) a person raised by great parents has a better chance than the same person raised by dolts. but thats as far as i will go.

i have 3 siblings. 2 of us turned out pretty good, 2 of us are derilicts. keep your comments to yourself as to which group i fall in

same parents, same house, played same sports, at same school, hung around same people, ate dinner as a family most of the time, attended church most of the time, and we are very close in age, 6 years between oldest to youngest. yet 2 very different results.

explain.....

 

[CrackerJax]

I wonder if its because of people like you that offer poverty level wages to 30 year old people...its called the working poor Rick.

No...it's due to liberals....

NEXT!!

P.S..... there is NO LAW forbidding anyone to cut a check to the IRS on their own.... so if you are a liberal and you love what Obama is doing.... CUT a CHECK!!! Uh huh.... silence.

 

[undertheice]

If 50% are paying taxes and 50% are not, then why aren't the Progressives complaining about the lack of "patriotism" being displayed by those who are not paying taxes? Isn't that part of the Progressive mantra ... that its your patriotic duty to pay taxes?

sorry vi, you got that one wrong. the progressive mantra is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". sound familiar?

 

[CrackerJax]

sorry vi, you got that one wrong. the progressive mantra is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". sound familiar?

Sorry UTI... you forgot the last part of the mantra....


"as long as I'm not the one paying for it all."