Led Users Unite!

[meharmon]

Just a note, the Google result for this gives the security error. If you use a direct URL, and are using Firefox, you get the security error built-in to Firefox, which can be turned off in Tools menu. Likely an ad or other script on here got hijacked and was found/reported quickly. For real security though, use the NoScript addon, it stops most of the bullshit lots of sites try to use these days. It can be a pain until you allow the sites you like (and if you forget to turn it off while making an online transaction, it may hinder that) but honestly I recommend it to anyone who uses the internet.
And the flaming has been fueled from all parties involved. Its easy enough to diffuse this back and forth shit if you're one involved just by not being condescending, /w the tone of the language being especially derisive by one of ya (???), which can easily be seen by reading the progression of this back-and-forth bantering which helped to make this the novel of a thread it is today. Sorry for adding to the length, but honestly, you all have much bigger penises than the other does (south park humor reference), so no need to be bitter towards anyone for either wanting trust in their word/experience or for being skeptical/curious.

Thanks for the HH link-- I do love me some warranty, and 90 day return policy is by far the best I've seen yet. LH/gotham shows 7-15 days depending on where you look, hehe. Hopefully I won't need that. HH for the 260 or 550 looks to be just over $1.50/watt. Bit more for sure, but in my experience if something is going to fry it'll be a capacitor, which can easily be replaced, or peeked at to see if its a quality component to begin with using its #'s. Also, heat kills 'em faster...
And thanks for the horrific customer service incident Bad Karma-- hopefully I don't deal with that too.

Also, Shawn left me with the assumption that the 500W used a similar config of bulb types that he mentioned for the 240W, which is why I was hoping for the diagram to get a breakdown of the percentage of each LED by angle/wavelength used.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

500W Blackstar led layout

 

[TshirtNinja]

Yah like i said before this even started getting outta hand with flaming that this was a dick measuring contest and dunnit decided that all of us using a product and enjoying and recommending it is salesmanship........... I hope that I can come out to your area and sell you cars if this is what you think being a salesman is because I'd rape your family on cars then. We were all having fun swapping pics and letting the very newest of members know what we use and how we think its great for the price per watt ratio with really good internals that we can stand by. Please take your snide comments and honestly start a different thread or kindly just disappear for all i care to be honest. I'm now at the point where i will gladly feed this troll so that it can be exposed for what it is..... Dunnit you sir are a troll. And a very bad one at that.
/facepalm.jpg

 

[mrcameleon]

Week 5 of flowering, LED grow, on par with any 400-600 HID IMHO. 3 weeks to go on this indica strain. There are more then one "best" type LED manufacturers out there, just have to look for them.
Its a modern myth that LED cannot do what an HID can. You just have to be willing to pay the piper, cause the "best" types are not cheap at all, a bit expensive actually.
To each their own.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Nice grow, the LED is pretty far from the canopy it seems and your results are the shit!

Week 5 of flowering, LED grow, on par with any 400-600 HID IMHO. 3 weeks to go on this indica strain. There are more then one "best" type LED manufacturers out there, just have to look for them.
Its a modern myth that LED cannot do what an HID can. You just have to be willing to pay the piper, cause View attachment 1397768the "best" types are not cheap at all, a bit expensive actually.
To each their own.

 

[mrcameleon]

Nice grow, the LED is pretty far from the canopy it seems and your results are the shit!

Thank you Hudson, although I vegged with a 180w LED and had it only 10 inches above them to bush/branch them out. The LED above them in the pic is a little larger then it looks.
Its a 360w (15 band) specifically for flowering. Has the infrared, ultraviolet, cool and warm white bands to blend the entire light spectrum, is more of a white light then a redish color when on.
Budding goes a good 6-8 inches under the canopy so decent penetration. Cleaning off the bottom branches usually keeps them popping up top.
Seems to me, some strains do very well under LED more then others. That is the Blue Dynamite strain which seems to take very well to it.

 

[Viagro]

All the hate came with dunit.....he single handedly changed the flow of the entire thread......its called led users unite, not my led is better than yours

Yeah... this used to be a fun and informative and congenial thread. It has soured, for sure. It's just sad.

 

[420Marine]

Agreed...unfortunately, I wanted to just find out what light would work best in a 4x4 tent without all the ho hum of advertisign..and while I think their are some good posts on this thread unfortunely you can't find any scientific fact to back up anyones claim of "x is better than y" or any scietific fact in gernal..looks like I"m still gong with a HID

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Do yourself a favor, mix HID and LED together if you are unsure. Mix a 400W HPS and a 240W(or there abouts depending on brand) in there and you will approach 1000W Yields and insane quantity. Thats what I have going on. I had a 1000W HPS and needed a bigger foot print, instead of getting another 1000W I got 740W of LED and It is working out splendidly.

Agreed...unfortunately, I wanted to just find out what light would work best in a 4x4 tent without all the ho hum of advertisign..and while I think their are some good posts on this thread unfortunely you can't find any scientific fact to back up anyones claim of "x is better than y" or any scietific fact in gernal..looks like I"m still gong with a HID

 

[Kaptain Kron]

maybe you just dont want to open your ears and eyes go back before all the drama you will see what works. Dont waste your money on expensive panels blackstars are just as good for half the price without all the crazy bells and whistles that everyone else throws into the game just to try and sell shit. Blackstar is bare bones functional. You want an LED that is superior to EVERYTHING else go with a KESSIL. Sure there are other companys out there that produce great lights but why pay 900 to a grand for one when you could get one that does the same thing for half the price. Everyone seems to agree pretty much on that subject EXCEPT for the people that have bought expensive ass panels and have to try to belittle blackstar because of their money saving tactics. 15 band not neccesary only 7 bands of light are neccesary really for an herb plant even four band is sufficient 15 band is an ad scam just like adjustable spectrum is an add scam you need both spectrums in sufficient quantitys or either you will end up with fluff nug or you will end up with stretched ass plants. So much for this thread staying informative people just felt the need to bash because they feel like shit for spending WAAAAY to much money on a panel that is equaled by a panel half its price. Thats not saying that the expensive panels dont work really well as they better for the money they charge. I would be very surprised if it didnt equal or better the blackstar but the "better things" about the other panels are a joke they are just little do hickeys they throw in there to try and get you to spend extra money on a product that is not worth the extra.

Surprising that people can't realize that.

There is plenty of scientific fact backing a lot of these lights on this thread i bet you just didnt feel like reading a 156 pages of bullshit hey neither would i but everyone but viagro and few other people thtat are actually using blackstars seem to think that everyone saying blackstar is good is in cahoots and advertising for them lol. To those of u who dont believe me, Have fun wasting 400 more bucks on expensive ass panels so you can see the color change when you turn a knob lol waste of money.

Agreed...unfortunately, I wanted to just find out what light would work best in a 4x4 tent without all the ho hum of advertisign..and while I think their are some good posts on this thread unfortunely you can't find any scientific fact to back up anyones claim of "x is better than y" or any scietific fact in gernal..looks like I"m still gong with a HID

 

[shaggy2dope]

So the key colors would be?? Just curious. Like I've seen panels that offer royal blue; bright whites that say they cover a wide spectrum. Is this true or just more marketing b.s.

And would it hurt my panel if i put an ocolating fan in my tent and had it blowing cool air on it to remove some of the heat faster. I'm trying to lenghten the life of my light. Any tips on that???

 

[Kaptain Kron]

you want to look at NM length that is what matters who cares what "colors" they say are in them look for NM wavelength 630 for ex. is red spectrum that is most needed for flower however there are a few other red spectrums as well that are extremely neccesary but not in the quantity of the 630nm LED's they place in the panel you need far out reds as well some warm whites (forget the proper NM spec for this one as im medicated right now on so fuckin vics............... no fuckin real meds i HATE PILLS MAKE ME FEEL ALL STUPID) but ya look for NM wavelength. Like i said there are aproximately 6-7 "colors" that your plant absolutely needs the others are just bells and whistles and not needed.

Think of it like this LED's are made to be the specific spectrum we need for plants or in theory that is what it is supposed to be, now a plant uses 20% of the light an HPS puts out. The more "colors" you start adding over the neccesary ones you start using power and putting out light you dont need and your plant starts using LESS of the available light. See the more "colors" you add the closer it becomes to being like an HPS only 20% of light being used. I personally would like 90-100% of usuable light being used not just 20% so get teh "colors" that are neccesary not the ones that the companys that make 15 band and 18 band LED's use. Sure they got the 7 neccesary colors in those panels but what about the other 8 that dont do shit and are just wasting power.

 

[shaggy2dope]

Whenever you feel better could you list the needed nm. So i can compare them to the list of lights I'm trying to figure out if they are worthy.

 

[Kaptain Kron]

im lookin for em for you right now im just all loopy so it may take a minute guy

 

[meharmon]

kessil looks to be ~$6.94/watt, but says it = 150W HID, which would be about 4x difference @36W/per light. 240W BS light is ~$1.04/w, and = 600W(?) which is 2.5x difference. So 4x vs 2.5x = 1.6x better for ~6.7x the price.
Of course none of this relates to real world use or results exactly, but numbers are fun and every percent counts when it comes to saving money, or you can think of it as "making money by smart shopping" which is a nice thought since the end result is the same, minus taxes.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

Well, thought that quote will probably have some baggage, I have to say that blackstar has been the victim of much criticism. I started an LED vs HID grow journal, mentioned that I had a blackstar, mentioned the word "cree" and holy shit, you would think that I threw a brick through peoples windows (actually dunit was one of the level headed ones in that fiasco). I wasn't trying to say mine was better than this that or the next thing, I just mentioned that the blackstar had some crees. Long story short, I found out that my grow area was too cool for growing on just LEDs, mixed LED and HID, and I ended that thread.

Call me cheap but I work in sales for my actual job. I have worked in sales and marketing for a long time. The best comparison I can make for LEDs is nutrients. Sure, advanced nutrients works well, it just costs several hundred bucks for the whole set up. Plenty of people swear by it as they have acceptable results from it. They feel that they are paying for "higher quality and engineering" and that is just fine. Its their money. I use jacks classic nutrients, which costs me 20 bucks for the whole set up. (plus 4 bucks for blackstrap). I know enough about chemistry to tell you that ionic compounds are ionic compounds. One nitrate is not different from another nitrate, especially if the cation is the same (which they are). The NPK rations vary slightly, thats the only real difference. Same thing is on display here.
LEDs produce photons that dwell within certain wavelengths. As long as a diode produces X amount of photons, at Y wavelengths, at Z angle, there is no difference. My belief is that LED panel differences matter more to humans than they do to plants. A plant can't tell you that you use crees, it can just tell you if it is getting enough light at whatever wavelength needed. If a particular LED light, or diode does that, then who cares? The cheaper the better.

To sum it up, I am positive that 357 magnums and ISIS lights, as well as most other LEDS on the market, work more than fine. But I see a lot of "marketing" strategies that are meant to keep prices up without introducing much new functionally. There are a lot of people that are "affiliates" with certain suppliers, who are ho hum and open minded when it comes to LEDS and then boom, they buy one, and are shoving it down peoples throats. I don't know if they get paid, or get a discount, but whatever. All of that bakes into a higher cost, the affiliate programs, the advertising, the over indulgent websites, the unnecessary heat sinks, the adjustable nonsense, all of that is superfluous and the plant can't see any benefit from it. So why pay for it? Exactly.

My problem with kessils is that I want them to be less them 190 bucks. Other than that they are awesome.
My problem with 357's is that they only come in one wattage. That is kind of a strange strategy. also that 700$ price tag.
My problem with ISIS is that that are a touch pricey. If it wasn't for that 379$ price tag for 170W then I would own them.
My problem with blackstar is that they have two spectrum ratios: 1 totally geared for veg, 1 totally geared for flower. It is hard to use the flower for veg and veg for flower.

However, that lets you have the best possible energy expenditure for each stage. In veg you are wasting a shit load of red, in flower, blue. But if you are serious about growing, you know that you NEED to have different spectra for the best results.

Lets also not forget that the grow depends a lot on the grower too.

maybe you just dont want to open your ears and eyes go back before all the drama you will see what works. Dont waste your money on expensive panels blackstars are just as good for half the price without all the crazy bells and whistles that everyone else throws into the game just to try and sell shit. Blackstar is bare bones functional. You want an LED that is superior to EVERYTHING else go with a KESSIL. Sure there are other companys out there that produce great lights but why pay 900 to a grand for one when you could get one that does the same thing for half the price. Everyone seems to agree pretty much on that subject EXCEPT for the people that have bought expensive ass panels and have to try to belittle blackstar because of their money saving tactics. 15 band not neccesary only 7 bands of light are neccesary really for an herb plant even four band is sufficient 15 band is an ad scam just like adjustable spectrum is an add scam you need both spectrums in sufficient quantitys or either you will end up with fluff nug or you will end up with stretched ass plants. So much for this thread staying informative people just felt the need to bash because they feel like shit for spending WAAAAY to much money on a panel that is equaled by a panel half its price. Thats not saying that the expensive panels dont work really well as they better for the money they charge. I would be very surprised if it didnt equal or better the blackstar but the "better things" about the other panels are a joke they are just little do hickeys they throw in there to try and get you to spend extra money on a product that is not worth the extra.

Surprising that people can't realize that.

There is plenty of scientific fact backing a lot of these lights on this thread i bet you just didnt feel like reading a 156 pages of bullshit hey neither would i but everyone but viagro and few other people thtat are actually using blackstars seem to think that everyone saying blackstar is good is in cahoots and advertising for them lol. To those of u who dont believe me, Have fun wasting 400 more bucks on expensive ass panels so you can see the color change when you turn a knob lol waste of money.

 

[Hudsonvalley82]

240 = 400W is more like it.

kessil looks to be ~$6.94/watt, but says it = 150W HID, which would be about 4x difference @36W/per light. 240W BS light is ~$1.04/w, and = 600W(?) which is 2.5x difference. So 4x vs 2.5x = 1.6x better for ~6.7x the price.
Of course none of this relates to real world use or results exactly, but numbers are fun and every percent counts when it comes to saving money, or you can think of it as "making money by smart shopping" which is a nice thought since the end result is the same, minus taxes.

 

[meharmon]

"The majority of the LED's are 630nm and 660nm but this light also has 730nm infrared, 380 Ultraviolet, 425nm deep blue, 450nm blue and 12,000k Cree white chipsets."
From the BS site...

 

[shaggy2dope]

+rep Hudson

 

[Kaptain Kron]

Cool white (6500 K) XLamp XM-L LEDs deliver 1000 lumens with 100 lumens per watt efficacy at 3 A. In a compact 5-mm x 5-mm footprint, XM-L LEDs offer the unique combination of very high efficacy at very high drive currents, delivering light output and efficacy of 160 lumens per watt at 350 mA and up to 315 lumens and 150 lumens per watt at 700 mA, providing a 20-percent efficiency gain from the Cree current industry-leading XLamp XP-G LEDs.

for cool white they dont say NM numbers for some reason or im all looped out and having a hard time finding it but they tell you kelvin of the cool white ones which is 6500k which is PERFECT veg spectrum for stackin up nodes.

ok here we go found a chart for cree

http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_new_colors.asp

Now if i remember correctly cree doesnt make any far out red LED chips yet so they HAD to use bridglux for the far outs on the red all the rest are CREE if im not mistaken. Look at that chart,.


quote
"The final analysis is that the most successful growth is found at 420nm, 450nm, 630nm and 660nm wavelengths. There are ideally 4 peaks of growth spectrum. Red is slightly more important for flowering but blue produces faster growth and absorption. It is also important for plants to get more 600nm-630nm wavelengths because it is reported that those wavelengths determine leaf diameter. Larger leaves will make a larger plant. And who doesn't love a big tomato plant! Larger leaves lead to larger surface area for further absorption, etc, etc."

Now what this means is that there are 4 main wavelengths of light that affect our plants the most. The theory behind 7 band instead of 4 band is that if you have a little bit of spectrum on either side of the Spikes on the graph that show fastest growth you get the most complete lighting that is why when you look at the spectrums used in a blackstar for example there are 4 MAIN spectrums and 3 sub spectrums that are very close in NM to the main spectrums. This will bring back up the argument that 15 spectrums is better than 7 but its not really IMO because those guys are throwing spectrums that are COMPLETELY unneccesary for plant growth in there instead of just adding a little extra light on either side of teh spikes.

hope that makes sense it did to my vic'ed out mind lol -_- fuck pills