Ron Paul Has A Legit Shot.

[tryingtogrow89]

NDAA is enough proof that our government is tyrannical.

 

[sso]

lets hope he´s nice but dont get too surprised when

 

[deprave]

Ok. But none of that shows any proof that Obama is waterboarding. As far as I'm aware there is no information to suggest that is true. That's what I'm objecting to. People just saying something that's outright false and everyone just accepting it as a fact. I know it's a small detail, but the devil is in the details. I'm fine with blaming him for stuff he actually did, it's the make believe I have a problem with.

If everyone could stick with what's real and keep away from convenient embellishments, we'd all be better off IMO.

Fair enough, but did you hear anything about them stopping the torture that went on through the Bush era and even before that? That is some pretty hard evidence right there, If he didn't do anything about it or do anything different then why would things be any different? To suggest Obama is not pro-torture is a pretty wild claim and Id like to see some evidence regarding that. Please by all means stick to whats real and not convenient.

When it comes to Obama its not so much what he did, it is what he didn't do. (Although he has done a lot of negative things not going to take that away from him, electing goldman sachs as king of the world and the NDAA is up there but I digress)

 

[Dan Kone]

NDAA is enough proof that our government is tyrannical.

Which is a pretty good point. I don't get why people have to make stuff up beyond what's real.

 

[Dan Kone]

[/B]

Fair enough, but did you hear anything about them stopping the torture that went on through the Bush era and even before that? That is some pretty hard evidence right there, If he didn't do anything about it or do anything different then why would things be any different

I'm not sure I understand. How can he undo torture that already took place before he took office?

? To suggest Obama is not pro-torture is a pretty wild claim and Id like to see some evidence regarding that.

Well it's impossible to prove an absence. But he claims to not be torturing anyone, and there is no evidence that he's torturing. So it's not really that wild of a claim. You can suspect he's lying, that's fine. I've got no problem with not just taking a politicians word for it. Maybe he is torturing, IDK. All I know is there is no evidence I know of that points to him torturing people, so when someone claims definitively that he's waterboarding people based on no evidence what so ever, well that's just nutty talk IMO.

 

[deprave]

It really is an almost primitive knowledge that governments are corrupt, of course not quite because governments don't exist outside of civilization. If there is no evidence that he has stopped the torture and secret military prisons, cia dungeons, etc... and there is lawyers and others claiming he hasn't. I'm not going to take his word for it untill I see evidence that he hasn't done so or evidence that he has stopped it. "Nutty Talk" is when you claim to posses this ancient wisdom of man and then in the very next sentence you claim is nutty talk...now that's nuckin futs...they got you by the balls man

fucking take the red pill already neo...why do you like the blue ones so much?

 

[Dan Kone]

It really is an almost primitive knowledge that governments are corrupt, ofcourse not quite because governments don't exist outside of civilization.

No one is disputing that. It's the invention of specific make believe details and their presentation as facts that I object to.

If there is no evidence that he has stopped the torture

lol. How can there possibly be evidence of a negative there?

Ok. Let's remove Obama from the equation here. Let's say Ron Paul is president and he says he's not torturing anyone. How would that be proven? What would the evidence of not torturing look like?

and secret military bases and there is lawyers and others claiming he hasn't.

What lawyers? And what are their claims based on?

Im not going to take his word for it untill I see evidence that he hasn't done so or evidence that he has stopped it. "Nutty Talk" is when you claim to posses this ancient wisdom of man and then in the very next sentence you claim is nutty talk...now that's nuckin futs...they got you by the balls man

Nutty talk right there IMO.

fucking take the red pill already neo...why do you like the blue ones so much?

Ahhh, more assumptions that I must be brainwashed because I don't attack Obama for make believe stuff.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not some Obama controlled zombie. When he does something I don't agree with, I say so. I'm not under the impression that he's perfect or even good. Only that I don't see a better option. And no, I don't consider Ron Paul a better option so spare me the campaign speech.

 

[deprave]

No one is disputing that. It's the invention of specific make believe details and their presentation as facts that I object to.



lol. How can there possibly be evidence of a negative there?

Ok. Let's remove Obama from the equation here. Let's say Ron Paul is president and he says he's not torturing anyone. How would that be proven? What would the evidence of not torturing look like?



What lawyers? And what are their claims based on?



Nutty talk right there IMO.



Ahhh, more assumptions that I must be brainwashed because I don't attack Obama for make believe stuff.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not some Obama controlled zombie. When he does something I don't agree with, I say so. I'm not under the impression that he's perfect or even good. Only that I don't see a better option. And no, I don't consider Ron Paul a better option so spare me the campaign speech.

The proof would be to go after the people accused of torture and to reform or completely dismantle the CIA..not saying Ron Paul would do that but he has been saying he would for years..You asked me to argue for Ron Paul but then you say you don't want to hear it, so I guees the old bait and switch here, whatever....something Obama would realistically do that he should of done is very simple...Go After Don Rumsfeld, that would of been a pretty good start.

Again, Watch this video for a brief overview:

at 5:20 starts a segment more about Obama specifically.
[video=youtube;zzcZFwAAz9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzcZFwAAz9E[/video]

Also: Need I highlight again that when it comes to Obama its not so much what he has done but what he hasn't done.


Got to go talk to you later.

 

[sync0s]

Let me help you two out

Human Rights – Tensions between the parties grew as President Barack Obama voiced his sentiments about waterboarding, stripping it of any possible euphemisms, he called it torture.

An “interrogation technique” dating back centuries, the system involves restraining and strapping the suspect in question onto an inclined board – his feet are raised and his head is lowered. The suspect’s appendages are then bound and his face is covered. Some techniques include gagging. The system is specifically designed to simulate drowning – the suspect believes he is drowning as he chokes on the water being poured onto his face. No a mere “dunk in water” as Dick Cheney had called it back in 2006.

Obama’s stance on waterboarding was made quite clear as the president said the technique was “contrary to America’s traditions.” During a Republican debate that took place just this Saturday Republican presidential candidates Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain both said that they would reinstate the practice that former President George W. Bush authorized and that Obama had banned.

When confronted with the topic, Bachmann defended waterboarding by comparing it to Truman’s decision to drop nuclear weapons on Japan in WWII. In reply to Obama’s statements about the technique, she said, “I think the president is clearly wrong. I would go back to President Harry Truman who had to make the horrific decision to drop the atomic bomb on Japan to end World War II. He said if he had to kill Japanese in order to save one American life he would.”

http://www.thedailyactivist.com/human-rights-obama-calls-a-spade-a-spade/

Truth is, who knows where the guy stands. I think on the issue of torture he doesn't seem to care and only reacts to his political base.

 

[NoDrama]

Do you guys have any evidence that Obama is waterboarding people or have you all just taken to making shit up as usual?

Any torture that happens is the responsibility of Obama, doesn't need to be waterboarding, it could be loud music, standing naked on a box for hours at a time, being deprived of bathroom facilities. Many forms of torture, none of which Obama himself is administering, but since he is Commander in Chief, EVERY mistake and evil thing that happens is ultimately his responsibility.

 

[Parker]

He's not stupid by any standard. He's clearly and obviously highly intelligent. But it does appear he's let power corrupt him.

wow I'm agreeing with you.
You also make a good point in that no matter how intelligent someone is they do not know how to run others lives better than the individual does. The free market makes the right decisions, government with its manipulation, does not.

 

[Parker]

I understand that you think Ron Paul's words are worth more than any other evidence out there

You mean the evidence you've made up?

and I'll never convince you otherwise. So at this time I'm making the choice to no longer continue to have this absurd conversation with you.

So you wont be making things up anymore?

If you want to act like a cult member that is your choice. GL with that.

Really? Being for freedom and liberty is a cult? Respecting property rights which is one of the cornerstones of our foundation is cult like?

 

[Parker]

no more insults, parker. please.

you sound half-sensible when you drop the insults. the quote above is an example of how bad you make yourself sound when you throw out insult after insult without provocation whatsoever.

Quit saying silly things and I wont.
But I'll try....for the turtles.

 

[Dan Kone]

The proof would be to go after the people accused of torture and to reform or completely dismantle the CIA..

Wow. That's pretty extreme. I don't think demanding the dismantling of our intelligence service is a reasonable possibility.

And Obama did pass torture reform. He couldn't push it through congress so he had to do it through executive order. Something he didn't do a lot of a that time. Here it is.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/EnsuringLawfulInterrogations

So is that proof enough, or is anything less that disbanding the CIA = Obama is a torturer?

something Obama would realistically do that he should of done is very simple...Go After Don Rumsfeld, that would of been a pretty good start.

I totally agree with that. Obama should have gone after Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, etc. But him not prosecuting the previous administration is hardly evidence that he's torturing people.

He did that because when he came into the white house he figured out that he'd need bipartisan support to get things done. Prosecuting a republican administration is not the way to make that happen. Since he never got bipartisan cooperation anyways, he should have just prosecuted them. But that's hindsight.

 

[Dan Kone]

Any torture that happens is the responsibility of Obama, doesn't need to be waterboarding, it could be loud music, standing naked on a box for hours at a time, being deprived of bathroom facilities. Many forms of torture, none of which Obama himself is administering, but since he is Commander in Chief, EVERY mistake and evil thing that happens is ultimately his responsibility.

And you have evidence that this is taking place?

 

[Dan Kone]

wow I'm agreeing with you.
You also make a good point in that no matter how intelligent someone is they do not know how to run others lives better than the individual does. The free market makes the right decisions, government with its manipulation, does not.

The free market makes the right decisions for the free market. It does not make the right decisions for people. That's why regulations are necessary. If the regulations don't work, then they need to be reformed, not dismantled.

I'm not sure why people think that the free market is more important than people, but I don't think it is.

 

[Dan Kone]

Really? Being for freedom and liberty is a cult? Respecting property rights which is one of the cornerstones of our foundation is cult like?

Yeah that's right. I don't agree with Ron Paul because I hate freedom and liberty. That's exactly what I was saying.

 

[NoDrama]

And you have evidence that this is taking place?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/26/world/main6991862.shtml

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20090515_torture_under_obamas_watch/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-books-arent-closed-on-bushs-torture-policy/2011/07/11/gIQA3v0e9H_story.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2009/01/13/obama-s-torture-dilemma.html

But you are right, Torture is no longer "officially" condoned.

 

[NoDrama]

Wow. That's pretty extreme. I don't think demanding the dismantling of our intelligence service is a reasonable possibility.

And Obama did pass torture reform. He couldn't push it through congress so he had to do it through executive order. Something he didn't do a lot of a that time.

Yep, obama promised he wouldn't do the very same thing you just said he did do.

[video=youtube;Eci77PJACCs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eci77PJACCs[/video]


he can just make laws as he goes, just like Bushy did by using signing statements.

 

[tryingtogrow89]

There is no reason to not side with ron paul, and if you beg to differ you are not paying attention.