gun law reform... please!

[Dr Kynes]

Depends what bases your trying overtake and get the weapons from... While im sure if the shit hit the fan, many wouldnt be guarded well or well at all. I know many that would probably take off go home take care of there own families. lol and it sounds like your brothers just not a very good shot, with or without army training. no offense btw. and yeah the army isnt the greatest at training esp. depending on your mos.

my bro is considered a great shot... in the army. he just fails the test of my grandpappy. he is well aware that he cant hit a running buck at 200 yards even with his holo-sighted pop-gun much less serious business rifles from the 1800's or 1900's. very few who received army training could do so. he is also not a fast draw, nor particullarly quick on the follow up. at a target range he smoked several of the local po-pos in target shooting with his red ryder with a compass in the stock tactical supercool AR 15 at 200 yards, but with my gramps' deer rifle (made in 1949) i dotted all their I's and crossed their T's without even goin to any of the hillbilly tricks i have to resort to at really long ranges. when i popped up my enfeild (made in 1909) the earth shook and the steel silhouettes were knocked off their bases with every shot from plain iron volley sights (not even the peep sights found on some models).

several of these "lawer infercemint offisers" couldnt even handle my hog gun with my handloads, one dingbat even dropped it on the ground after the first shot. niether cops nor army "marksmen" could qualify to get anything bigger than a bb gun from my gramps, but my brother shot better than all of them, he just wasnt up to hillbilly spec. he's workin on it.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Thats not Charlie Daniels, btw, its Hank Williams Jr.

thanks bro, i shouldnt wake n bake

 

[cannabineer]

What is your hog gun? Tell me about the loads, too. cn

 

[Carthoris]

lol where are you seriously getting this all from? you think cause militiary weapons cost more that means there not better? heres little insight.. they just get charged more! cause its for the military and government meaning theyll spend more! if you take same piece of equipment that was 500 for the military usually pays 1500 for same piece equipment.. why? because they pay alot more for same thing... While there are alot of great civilian made guns i highly dought they can go up against alot militarys weapons.. ive used alot them. and not saying there just better cause only automatic. and i qaurantee you the armor they have now is better then anything civilian can get... your looking at all old military surplus shit they used to get.

BTW you really think bunch civilians can do better then a trained soldier? someone thats done nothing but train to fight, had combat training etc. And yes if there was a civil war revolution outbreak you really dont think the government wouldnt take action againts its own people? such as using planes... come on now.. if it came down to it they would. question is how many of the soldiers, airmen, sailors etc. would drop there shit and go home ? I know many that would say fuck this... and leave take care there families. yet there still probably be many thatd stay an try enforce marshall law if came down to that

Civilian weapons are as good or better than military weapons. Why? For the same reason that Capitalism results in better products than Communism. The military buys a million guns of one type and once they buy them it is pretty much over - they won't switch up for a while. The people have access to whatever is currently the best.

The armor that the US military uses might stop a pistol round at range, but a rifle shot is going through the armor. They don't even have enough armor for the troops in Iraq, they had a big problem getting enough. They definitely don't have enough to arm a force big enough to suppress the people in the US.

I would say there is a military doctrine that says you don't send troops to their local area to enforce Marshall Law. It would be insane to believe they don't have a computer system or orders to ensure people won't be at home if the problem is a rebellion.

The issue with having an army keeping down the populace is this:4 rednecks vs 40 soldiers. The soldiers are standing out in the open, they aren't hiding, they are protecting. The rednecks can go wherever they want, and no one knows they are doing so with intent to cause attacks. Most people who have any experience with guns can hit a pie plate at 100 yards. Head shots from 100 yards with any rifle will likely kill you. .22 included with decent ammo. Most people who would be fighting back would have hunting rifles that are not registered, some ammo, and have been hunting. If you can sneak up on a deer or lie in wait for a deer, then you can do so with a human.

The soldiers won't know the land like the people who live there. The soldiers would likely take the major cities, but they would have no control over rest of the country unless they are traveling in force. A lot like Afghanistan or Iraq, except America has 10 times the population and area. Good luck keeping 10x's the area and people controlled.

Add to this that whichever side pulled the trigger and was in charge federally (dem or rep) would have to fight against half the states in the country too. I don't see the Dems or Reps being on the same side in a rebellion. So add to that dozens of states whose National Guard units simply won't fight for the Feds. Do you think those people are just going to kick back and relinquish their weapons?

 

[Dr Kynes]

yet there still probably be many thatd stay an try enforce marshall law if came down to that

Double Lawyered.

 

[snowboarder396]

Voter ID, I am refering to the fact that states are demanding voters present specific ID in order for those voters to cast a ballot - how do you feel about that?

hmm... Well I dont think its nec. a bad thing esp. if it helps stop illegals from voting/ esp the bullshit Obama just pulled with illegals just so he can get more votes or popularity with the hispanic community.. Then again many states give illegals id or licenses anyway so doesnt really do any good.

IMHO... The government is pretty corrupt now adays.. doesnt matter who you vote for if they want a specific person in office theyll get them in anyway.. Look at last few elections and how many dead people etc. that voted... or how many times one person voted which isnt suppose be possible right?

So it could be a good thing maybe but i dont see it nec. helping to be honest... how do you feel about it?

 

[Dr Kynes]

What is your hog gun? Tell me about the loads, too. cn

Enfeild SMLE No 1 Mk 3, with an L (long)stock, standard wood furniture, made in Ishapore in 1909, all standard infantry issue, non-sporterized with stock volley sights.

Favorite load:
fire formed, and neck sized federal brass trimmed to max SAAMI spec length
CCI large rifle primers
43.5 grains IMR 4064
.311 dia Sierra Match King 174 gr HPBT
set to OAL 3.08 (which places the bullet shoulder .003 before the throat when chambered)

this load far exceeds SAAMI pressure specs, and exceeds max OAL so it is definitely unsafe for any rifle except mine. do not use this data unless you are certain your rifle can accommodate the pressures, and your chamber length can accommodate it.

in my rifle i consistently get one ragged hole measuring about .75" at 100 yards from a standing position with this load, and 1.5" groups at 200 yards. muzzle velocities hover around 2700 fps, and the recoil is significant. cases ;last for 3 firings even with neck sizing. in the 4th firing the case head always detaches and some combustion gasses escape the blow-out vent.

seriously dont use this data in your rifle unless you want to risk a bolt snap, personal injury and possible death, or worse, damage to the rifle.

also it comes with the 30' sword bayonet (made in Sheffield 1911) for those times when a piggy is just too rambunctious.

 

[canndo]

It doesnt matter what you do... why make it stricter to vote thats stupid and pointless.... ...Why punish the many for the few stupid.. there hundreds of thousands people don't have ID, you dont see them all abusing the vote.. .. no need to punish everyone else and take away there right to vote for the few fuck it up for everyone else. to many states are already taking away this right.. to many constitutional rights are being stripped away that were given to us. its not only a constitutional right but a god given right to vote...So it doesnt matter if you make it illegal to vote without ID or not those who still wish do harm will find a way get one.. dont punish those that havent done anything wrong

Note the few changes I made in your original post.​

 

[cannabineer]

For some reason, when i thought "hog gun" I pictured a heavy handgun, esp. with the bit about your fellow shooter dropping it. I have a few such, notably a .454 and a .500 Linebaugh.
I must say that a thirty-foot bayonet sound unwieldy. cn

 

[snowboarder396]

Civilian weapons are as good or better than military weapons. Why? For the same reason that Capitalism results in better products than Communism. The military buys a million guns of one type and once they buy them it is pretty much over - they won't switch up for a while. The people have access to whatever is currently the best.

The armor that the US military uses might stop a pistol round at range, but a rifle shot is going through the armor. They don't even have enough armor for the troops in Iraq, they had a big problem getting enough. They definitely don't have enough to arm a force big enough to suppress the people in the US.

I would say there is a military doctrine that says you don't send troops to their local area to enforce Marshall Law. It would be insane to believe they don't have a computer system or orders to ensure people won't be at home if the problem is a rebellion.

The issue with having an army keeping down the populace is this:4 rednecks vs 40 soldiers. The soldiers are standing out in the open, they aren't hiding, they are protecting. The rednecks can go wherever they want, and no one knows they are doing so with intent to cause attacks. Most people who have any experience with guns can hit a pie plate at 100 yards. Head shots from 100 yards with any rifle will likely kill you. .22 included with decent ammo. Most people who would be fighting back would have hunting rifles that are not registered, some ammo, and have been hunting. If you can sneak up on a deer or lie in wait for a deer, then you can do so with a human.

The soldiers won't know the land like the people who live there. The soldiers would likely take the major cities, but they would have no control over rest of the country unless they are traveling in force. A lot like Afghanistan or Iraq, except America has 10 times the population and area. Good luck keeping 10x's the area and people controlled.

Add to this that whichever side pulled the trigger and was in charge federally (dem or rep) would have to fight against half the states in the country too. I don't see the Dems or Reps being on the same side in a rebellion. So add to that dozens of states whose National Guard units simply won't fight for the Feds. Do you think those people are just going to kick back and relinquish their weapons?

I get what your saying but you realize most people these days dont even have fucking common sense? common sense isnt even common anymore.. and while there are many with guns a majority of population doesnt own weapons or dont know how use them very well... what about all people in cities? they dont know shit they wouldnt know how shoot or survive... people in most major cities are ignorant now adays.. And yes at the beginning of iraq war they didnt have enough armor. it was low qaulity.. but since weve first invaded iraq afghan... we now have better armor and yes it can stop more then pistol round it can stop 7.62.. and they have enough for everyone now.. theyve also learned that it wasnt like other wars and adapted to urban warfare..

You honestly think that bunch military guys are gonna stand around like targets for you shoot at them? no.. this isnt the revolutionary or civil war where u lined up took shots at one another.. just like civilian isnt just gonna stand there like target get shot. niether would the military. theyd use cover and concealment just like they do over in afghan or iraq.

But yes i do agree there are alot of people that would just go home protect there families if there was a government or economic collapse.. they wouldnt just stick around while shit fell apart get shot at for nothing... like said a few might.. just becuase there that stupid, they want that, or they dont know anything else just gonna shut up listen anyway.. I know majority would go home there families not enforcing marshall law as told to.

 

[wannabe grower]

I would like to see a rifle with a 30' bayonette wielded successfully by anyone. >

 

[Dr Kynes]

For some reason, when i thought "hog gun" I pictured a heavy handgun, esp. with the bit about your fellow shooter dropping it. I have a few such, notably a .454 and a .500 Linebaugh.
I must say that a thirty-foot bayonet sound unwieldy. cn

nahh, im 80 feet tall.


seriously though i dont hunt with handguns, i carry my .40 just in case, or my .357 wheelgun for fun, but killin is for my enfeild at short-medium ranges, and grampy's old remington model 8 in .300 savage for longer ranges (300+ yards). i just cant see good enough out past 300 yards to rely on my iron sights no more unless i compress my retina, and thats not somethin i likes to do often.

 

[canndo]

I get what your saying but you realize most people these days dont even have fucking common sense? common sense isnt even common anymore.. QUOTE]


Do I really want to go into my "common sense is actually lazy thinking" diatribe? Nahhh - I'll just say that common sense is highly over rated.

 

[snowboarder396]

my bro is considered a great shot... in the army. he just fails the test of my grandpappy. he is well aware that he cant hit a running buck at 200 yards even with his holo-sighted pop-gun much less serious business rifles from the 1800's or 1900's. very few who received army training could do so. he is also not a fast draw, nor particullarly quick on the follow up. at a target range he smoked several of the local po-pos in target shooting with his red ryder with a compass in the stock tactical supercool AR 15 at 200 yards, but with my gramps' deer rifle (made in 1949) i dotted all their I's and crossed their T's without even goin to any of the hillbilly tricks i have to resort to at really long ranges. when i popped up my enfeild (made in 1909) the earth shook and the steel silhouettes were knocked off their bases with every shot from plain iron volley sights (not even the peep sights found on some models).

several of these "lawer infercemint offisers" couldnt even handle my hog gun with my handloads, one dingbat even dropped it on the ground after the first shot. niether cops nor army "marksmen" could qualify to get anything bigger than a bb gun from my gramps, but my brother shot better than all of them, he just wasnt up to hillbilly spec. he's workin on it.

Lol like said wasnt trying put your brother down sorry if sounded that way.. And i do love them older guns. And yeah it depended on your mos and how you were instructed. i worked with army while was in military and didnt find some them all be very bright. And most cops cant shoot for shit.. they qual once or twice a year and thats only time they shoot unless required more by there station or they take the time themselves go range and practice..

Only way get batter is practice and shoot... We were taught repetition just on simple things from drawing, reloading etc. until everyone got it down good and fast enough. if you dont practice or do it def. be rusty.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I would like to see a rifle with a 30' bayonette wielded successfully by anyone. >

alright alright, lay off already or im gonna have to sit in the shower and hug my knees while i cry. its a 30" bayonet already. your all meanies.

 

[cannabineer]

alright alright, lay off already or im gonna have to sit in the shower and hug my knees while i cry. its a 30" bayonet already. your all meanies.

I cannot find the thirty-incher via Google. If you could lead me toward an image or entry, I'd be obliged ... cn

 

[Dr Kynes]

Lol like said wasnt trying put your brother down sorry if sounded that way.. And i do love them older guns. And yeah it depended on your mos and how you were instructed. i worked with army while was in military and didnt find some them all be very bright. And most cops cant shoot for shit.. they qual once or twice a year and thats only time they shoot unless required more by there station or they take the time themselves go range and practice..

Only way get batter is practice and shoot... We were taught repetition just on simple things from drawing, reloading etc. until everyone got it down good and fast enough. if you dont practice or do it def. be rusty.

im not butthurt, my bro is actually a shit shot in my family, even my aging mother shoots better out to the limits of her vision (100 yards or so) and she is 75 years old. we all give him the business all the time.

in the army he was considered a "Marksman" so it's a source of great amusement, since most of my family was marine corps or navy. since my mom and one uncle were both navy (but they learned to shoot from my gramps like i did) they have a great deal of fun at his expense as well as the army's.

 

[wannabe grower]

To the original intent of this thread, I don't think there is a way to predict who is going to go nuts and start shooting people enmass. I would not be opposed to a psych eval as a part of the licensing process, but I believe this would be abused by LEO's to deniy weapons for little to know reason.

I could easily get in my car and run down dozens of people at many functions that occur any given weekend if I go off the deep end too.

We need a magical dolphin that can see people committing future crimes to truly be successful.

 

[snowboarder396]

Yeah. and like said it doesnt matter what you do if they want someone in office bad enough sure theyll find a way to do it. But your right Its not gonna help or make a difference by making people show ID to vote.. My personal oppinion on that was towards illegals.. i dont believe they should have the right to vote.. I dont care what country your from or whatever but if you wanna come here then do it legally.. otherwise you shouldnt have the right to vote or same rights as us..why should tax payers have to pay for illegal immigrants health care/hospital bills, schooling etc.

Shit im a veteran and I dont get treated as good some them do... Where some places they get go school for free get all these nice grants and scholarships and reduced fees... Why are we taking better care of illegals then are own?

 

[cannabineer]

To the original intent of this thread, I don't think there is a way to predict who is going to go nuts and start shooting people enmass. I would not be opposed to a psych eval as a part of the licensing process, but I believe this would be abused by LEO's to deniy weapons for little to know reason.

I could easily get in my car and run down dozens of people at many functions that occur any given weekend if I go off the deep end too.

We need a magical dolphin that can see people committing future crimes to truly be successful.

The necessity of using Keanu Reeves as its interpreter would lead to disaster. cn