"he died for your freedoms"

FreedomWorks

Well-Known Member
Studies have shown, and it should not be surprising that increasing the number of civilians with guns would reduce crime rates.
The possibility of armed victims reduces the expected benefits and increases the expected costs of criminal activity. And, at the margin at least, people respond to changes in costs, even for crime
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
And that's the end result of gun control laws. Disarming the honest citizen and giving the dishonest citizen/criminal the advantage.

It's overused, but "Take guns from law-abiding citizens and only criminals will have guns.

i choose "criminal" i guess.
It sad really. I can't own my uncle's M14 in Cali, unless I modify the hell out of it. This is after we removed the fun switch.
 

feff f

Active Member
I have to question which freedoms I have are currently being defended by our military - so call me any name you wish, but answer the question. Which freedom is being defended by our military - right to assembly? worship? vote? There are plenty of people who are giving their lives, not in death but one day at a time in order to defend my liberty but no one in Afghanistan is doing any such thing, the wars are currently being fought in courtrooms.

And thanks for the invitation but I love this country - and I find most all of the people in it valuable in one way or another. I would never demand that any citizen "get out".

the freedom NOT to be blown to smitherines by some stupid, knuckle dragging, cave dweller while you are sitting at your desk in new york city, on a plane on your way through scotland, a subway in london, a train in spain, and an embassy in benghazi.

the freedom NOT to be beheaded in a public square because you are catholic, jewish, or any other religion that isnt muslim.

the freedom to drive a car and go to school if you are a young woman.

the freedom to be gay and not be stoned to death........to name a few

you lefties are dumb.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
How about the freedom to get a free prostate exam before boarding a plane?Freedom to give your house to the government when they find flowers in your house?The freedom for crazy homeless to get freed so they steal your shit to smoke crack.Righties dumb,ugh
 

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman

Well-Known Member
the freedom NOT to be blown to smitherines by some stupid, knuckle dragging, cave dweller while you are sitting at your desk in new york city, on a plane on your way through scotland, a subway in london, a train in spain, and an embassy in benghazi.

the freedom NOT to be beheaded in a public square because you are catholic, jewish, or any other religion that isnt muslim.

the freedom to drive a car and go to school if you are a young woman.

the freedom to be gay and not be stoned to death........to name a few

you lefties are dumb.
the men that drove the plains into buildings were intelligent, not knuckle dragging imbeciles. most of those suicide bombers are revered or respected individuals within the muslim communities. politics has alot to do with what happens, religions and politics in the muslim world are the same entity. kinda like the republican tea party.
 

feff f

Active Member
the men that drove the plains into buildings were intelligent, not knuckle dragging imbeciles. most of those suicide bombers are revered or respected individuals within the muslim communities. politics has alot to do with what happens, religions and politics in the muslim world are the same entity. kinda like the republican tea party.
exactly.......aaaahhhhh.......yes, those lousy tea partiers are always blowing shit up.....

pathetic analogy
 

feff f

Active Member
knuckle dragger: 1. one who plants bombs on children and sends them into shopping malls. 2. a man who believes he will meet virgins if he succesfully kills himself while killing others. 3 a person that will broadcast on live tv, the sawing off of someones head. knuckle dragger

any questions?
 

FreedomWorks

Well-Known Member
knuckle dragger: 1. one who plants bombs on children and sends them into shopping malls. 2. a man who believes he will meet virgins if he succesfully kills himself while killing others. 3 a person that will broadcast on live tv, the sawing off of someones head. knuckle dragger

any questions?
There really is a feff f? I thought somebody just made that name up. You are my sub account, whatever that means. So how do I use you?
 

Fungus Gnat

Well-Known Member
Studies have shown, and it should not be surprising that increasing the number of civilians with guns would reduce crime rates.
The possibility of armed victims reduces the expected benefits and increases the expected costs of criminal activity. And, at the margin at least, people respond to changes in costs, even for crime
Actually criminals escalate and adapt and has been shown to be true throughout history. You're more likely to be killed if a criminal believes you to be armed...why take the chance?
It's a false security blanky, to believe if everyone was armed we'd all be safer. Like with cops there's a high probability that your weapon will be used against you.

I'm not against everyone having guns(it is every Americans right) I just don't buy into the bullshit that it will make you safer.
 

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman

Well-Known Member
exactly.......aaaahhhhh.......yes, those lousy tea partiers are always blowing shit up.....

pathetic analogy
oh right! damn abortion clinics HAD IT COMING har har har (go fuck yourself)

knuckle dragger: 1. one who plants bombs on children and sends them into shopping malls. 2. a man who believes he will meet virgins if he succesfully kills himself while killing others. 3 a person that will broadcast on live tv, the sawing off of someones head. knuckle dragger

any questions?
knuckle dragger is a term meant to demean the intelligence of others, as in having similar traits to our ancestors. ie- being less intelligent.
you aren't doing yourself any favor digging a deeper hole.
 

budlover13

King Tut
Actually criminals escalate and adapt and has been shown to be true throughout history. You're more likely to be killed if a criminal believes you to be armed...why take the chance?
It's a false security blanky, to believe if everyone was armed we'd all be safer. Like with cops there's a high probability that your weapon will be used against you.

I'm not against everyone having guns(it is every Americans right) I just don't buy into the bullshit that it will make you safer.
It will make you more capable of defending you and yours.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Actually criminals escalate and adapt and has been shown to be true throughout history. You're more likely to be killed if a criminal believes you to be armed...why take the chance?
It's a false security blanky, to believe if everyone was armed we'd all be safer. Like with cops there's a high probability that your weapon will be used against you.

I'm not against everyone having guns(it is every Americans right) I just don't buy into the bullshit that it will make you safer.
Good point. The major groups that support firearm ownership do paint it like you go to a gun shop, buy a gun, and you are instantly immune to the criminal element. The problem is, you have to learn how to use that weapon. If the first time you pull it on a bad guy is the third time you've held it, you're asking for trouble. When that gun jams, you probably aren't at all qualified to perform immediate action, you've now got an expensive club.

On the other side of that same coin, a person who has taken the time to become proficient with his weapons and tactics is going to have one up on an assailant in most situations. In general, police are not terribly well trained in weapon retention and basic marksmanship. That's why they lose their weapons, not to mention the open carry method and holsters that don't inhibit someone snaking your gun while you're distracted.

So no, the gun will not make you safer. However, having a gun and learning how to use it effectively so you'll be confident and competent with it will make you safer.
 

an11dy9

Well-Known Member
I remember when Chris Hayes simply asked the question: Does calling all of our soldiers heroes contribute to the war machine. < Paraphrased. He got chewed out for that. Fox news started it, the rest followed (like usual). Hayes eventually came out and apologized. What do you all think? Also, does video games like Medal Of Honor drive our "war machine"?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I remember when Chris Hayes simply asked the question: Does calling all of our soldiers heroes contribute to the war machine. < Paraphrased. He got chewed out for that. Fox news started it, the rest followed (like usual). Hayes eventually came out and apologized. What do you all think? Also, does video games like Medal Of Honor drive our "war machine"?
Interesting questions. I would say yes, it does contribute to the war machine to call all of our soldiers heroes, because all of our soldiers are not heroes and putting them into that category automatically denotes that what they did was right and good, when what they really do may be right for the individual in the moment, but in many past wars, it's neither right nor good for the country as a whole.

Video games definitely contribute to the war machine. Video games especially, but also movies and many books, any media really. I remember as a kid being asked the question "are you a contentious objector?" and without even looking up from the paper saying "nope!", as a young kid, you don't understand what that truly means, and playing video games instills in you that killing people is OK in certain circumstances, like war. I'd agree, killing people is acceptable under the right circumstances, self defense, protecting a loved one, that type of thing, but games like MOH, COD, etc. tell a kid whose not old enough to realize the implications or politics of war that we're always on the good team and they're always on the bad team. It enforces our political foreign policy without ever asking why. Those kids don't ask why sometimes until after they're out of the military having racked up a body count they can't truly justify.

More soldiers die due to suicide than in battle, and this is one reason why.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Interesting questions. I would say yes, it does contribute to the war machine to call all of our soldiers heroes, because all of our soldiers are not heroes and putting them into that category automatically denotes that what they did was right and good, when what they really do may be right for the individual in the moment, but in many past wars, it's neither right nor good for the country as a whole.

Video games definitely contribute to the war machine. Video games especially, but also movies and many books, any media really. I remember as a kid being asked the question "are you a contentious objector?" and without even looking up from the paper saying "nope!", as a young kid, you don't understand what that truly means, and playing video games instills in you that killing people is OK in certain circumstances, like war. I'd agree, killing people is acceptable under the right circumstances, self defense, protecting a loved one, that type of thing, but games like MOH, COD, etc. tell a kid whose not old enough to realize the implications or politics of war that we're always on the good team and they're always on the bad team. It enforces our political foreign policy without ever asking why. Those kids don't ask why sometimes until after they're out of the military having racked up a body count they can't truly justify.

More soldiers die due to suicide than in battle, and this is one reason why.
When I was in, the suicide rate crept to an all-time high. These people genuinely believe they are trying to make a difference somewhere. They realize we have no moral imperative and that is alot of why these suicides happen. It's easy to shoot someone when an entire nation says it's okay. When you start having to justify your actions, you start to realize you may have been duped. That's a harsh reality to face. Those folks who demonize our troops should remember that. These aren't hardened killers, they're confused 18 year-olds. These folks, for the most part, genuinely beleive they are doing something good. In some respects, they are. Overall though, people should do less of the "baby killer" bit and more of the "tell me why what you did is right" bit. The Socratic method is great, and it reduces conflict when properly applied.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
When I was in, the suicide rate crept to an all-time high. These people genuinely believe they are trying to make a difference somewhere. They realize we have no moral imperative and that is alot of why these suicides happen. It's easy to shoot someone when an entire nation says it's okay. When you start having to justify your actions, you start to realize you may have been duped. That's a harsh reality to face. Those folks who demonize our troops should remember that. These aren't hardened killers, they're confused 18 year-olds. These folks, for the most part, genuinely beleive they are doing something good. In some respects, they are. Overall though, people should do less of the "baby killer" bit and more of the "tell me why what you did is right" bit. The Socratic method is great, and it reduces conflict when properly applied.
That's the hardest part about it, coming home and finding out you didn't.. Discovering you were lied to.. When you realize these things, the suicide rate becomes apparent.. I hate the war and the people that perpetuate it, but you have to have empathy for those people, even if they did it under misguided information. Maybe even especially because of that.

Mind if I ask what you did in the military? Which branch? Were you deployed?
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
That's the hardest part about it, coming home and finding out you didn't.. Discovering you were lied to.. When you realize these things, the suicide rate becomes apparent.. I hate the war and the people that perpetuate it, but you have to have empathy for those people, even if they did it under misguided information. Maybe even especially because of that.

Mind if I ask what you did in the military? Which branch? Were you deployed?
I was in the Marines from 2006-2010. I was a tank mechanic with 1st Tank Battalion, stationed in 29 Palms. In a twist I desperately sought to avoid, I never got deployed at the height of our troop increase. These days, I ask myself "Would I really feel like I did what is right by killing someone over there?". Honestly, that is a question that haunts me after I've been out for two years.

When I first joined, I was an impressionable 18 year old. I was told what I was doing was a great service to my fellow countryman. I didn't do it for god or country, I genuinely thought I was keeping the boogeyman at bay, if you will. That's the perspective that most of these people who give our troops so much shit, lack; the same people who shot an afghani woman in the face due to a fucked up EOF preocedure, were the same men who I watched cry themselves to sleep at night. They have wives and children too, it isn't like most of these folks are mowing down a playground and laughing in a sinister way. These are just scared high-schoolers who think they are protecting our asses. We all took an oath to "Defend the constitution against all enemies, both foreign an domestic", when we signed up. When I was in, that was taken to mean "fighting over in the middles east".

There's alot to it, and I'd be happy to talk about more specific points. That is the gist of what I saw though.
 
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