The horror of global warming!

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
It brings up an obvious question. Why are we wasting so many valuable resources trying to prove we're causing climate change, rather than spending those resources on developing the technology that would make the argument moot?
Because idiots like yourself spends so much time denying it

I'm all for solar powered everything, cars, planes, factories, residences...everything. Until the technology is developed to the point it can replace fossil fuels, we aren't going to stop or even slow down our use of them. Even if we restrict them, worldwide population growth is going to increase our use of them as a species. You can argue, bitch, moan, demonize and tax the use of them all you want, the widespread use of them will continue unabated. You can argue the point, but you're living in a liberal pipe-dream if you actually think otherwise.
We already have the technology to most replace fossil fuel use but a different group of idiots block It.

Nuclear has been about for more than 50 years and could happily replace fossil fuel and last us tens of thousands of years

I personally think the drive to solar and wind is a folly unless you have solid nuclear producing the base load

If we really believe mankind is facilitating its own destruction and we really want to avoid that scenario, not just use it as an opportunity to have something to protest and argue about, then let's direct ALL of those public and private resources to developing the technology that everyone agrees will save us.
What your suggesting adds up to a totalitarian state (which if it only addressed the transition from fossil to nuclear I wouldn't bemoan)
Think about how much could be diverted to speeding up the advances. The vast amount of money spent on both sides of the argument, rallies, protest placards, banners, website development, t-shirts, conferences, TV time, fuel and transportation costs to said events, legal expenses, MMGW research funding and most importantly, the time that humans are spending. Including every second anyone (myself included) spends on the computer interacting on the subject to every second spent by both sides trying to further their selected position. They could be out doing something with that time that generates money that could be donated, along with all the money not being spent on the above, to entities developing solar technology. Another big one, the vast amount of electricity needed to power the movement and the debate. From the IPad I'm on right now, to the lights in the basement of the science building where Professor Dickcheese posts his inflated predictions (sorry, couldn't resist).

All combined, it has to be tens of billions of dollars annually, probably more. But, I guess it's more important to "win" the argument than to solve the puzzle.
The money that would be saved?

As a denier your bringing that up? The data points towards AGW deal with it then we can start moving on can't we?
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member

ricky1lung

Well-Known Member
Nuclear power is only a nice looking alternative until there is an accident.

Solar power needs more development to make it a viable solution.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
Nuclear power is only a nice looking alternative until there is an accident.

Solar power needs more development to make it a viable solution.
Takes one of the biggest earthquakes ever recorded and tsunami to get any sort of serious accidents from nuclear (and still no one died)

And that was with one of oldest nuke plants in world.....

We can more than easily now build nuclear reactors that would never melt down like fukishima
 

ricky1lung

Well-Known Member
Takes one of the biggest earthquakes ever recorded and tsunami to get any sort of serious accidents from nuclear (and still no one died)

And that was with one of oldest nuke plants in world.....

We can more than easily now build nuclear reactors that would never melt down like fukishima


Chernobyl?

Nuclear power is dangerous, there are far too many ways that power plants could fail
no matter how fail safe the system may have been said to be.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
Chernobyl?

Nuclear power is dangerous, there are far too many ways that power plants could fail
no matter how fail safe the system may have been said to be.
Chernobyl was a really bad design run by engineers doing something they shouldn't

There are no reactors like Chernobyl operating atm


We can build "walk away" reactors where input is needed to keep reaction going and without input everything shuts down

The "runaway" style of reactor like fukishima are a throwback to the cold war days and no longer needed for fissionable material for bombs
 

echelon1k1

New Member
Once would be enough dickhead..... still waiting ;)

cook was very clear on where he searched

For you to show that makes a difference you'd have to show a disproportionate number of "anti" papers from the data set in site cook didn't use
Like I said all the LSD has fried you bro, that is blatantly obvious. Replicating cooks search on webofknowledge provides a different set of results. How hard is that for you to understand?

63 papers imply a >50% chance humans are to blame, cannot say what percentage of blame lies on us, just it's our fault. 63 out of nearly 20,000. Yes I did the search on web of knowledge, which is why I posted the link and search criteria. He hasn't used all the available data.

If you think basing a "consensus" on such a small cross section of scientists that support your theories, is good science, good luck. Don't forget cook is not a neutral in this, he benefits financially from this, part of his dissertation and he had half the people do his work for him in analysing the abstract of 11,000 odd papers. Let's not forget the nice little picture you pulled in post #264 was from his webpage and you did so without reviewing the data.

Keep on failing bro...
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
Because idiots like yourself spends so much time denying it


We already have the technology to most replace fossil fuel use but a different group of idiots block It.

Nuclear has been about for more than 50 years and could happily replace fossil fuel and last us tens of thousands of years

I personally think the drive to solar and wind is a folly unless you have solid nuclear producing the base load


What your suggesting adds up to a totalitarian state (which if it only addressed the transition from fossil to nuclear I wouldn't bemoan)

The money that would be saved?

As a denier your bringing that up? The data points towards AGW deal with it then we can start moving on can't we?
If we're working on the solution, why does it matter if I agree with you? Wasting money, time and energy to convince me doesn't do anything to further the transition.

As a matter of fact, I'm with you 100% on the nuclear. But, I think advances in solar will make it the inevitable source of energy in the future. It's just a matter of time and I don't see how increased funding and research can be dismissed as "speculative bullshit". Are you actually asserting that increased research and funding DOESN'T facilitate accelerated advances and breakthroughs?

How is it totalitarian if we voluntarily funnel resources to research and development of the solution instead of spending it on the debate?

To the last, why do you need a surrender from me, if I'm willing to work with you on the solution even though I disagree with you on why we're doing it?
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
Like I said all the LSD has fried you bro, that is blatantly obvious. Replicating cooks search on webofknowledge provides a different set of results. How hard is that for you to understand?
show your work?you know cite?

You've Been thru 20000 studies and emailed emailed the authors to check

Really?

No I thought you hadn't.......
63 papers imply a >50% chance humans are to blame, cannot say what percentage of blame lies on us, just it's our fault. 63 out of nearly 20,000. Yes I did the search on web of knowledge, which is why I posted the link and search criteria. He hasn't used all the available data.
63 papers from what 20000?

Show your work?

If you think basing a "consensus" on such a small cross section of scientists that support your theories, is good science, good luck. Don't forget cook is not a neutral in this, he benefits financially from this, part of his dissertation and he had half the people do his work for him in analysing the abstract of 11,000 odd papers. Let's not forget the nice little picture you pulled in post #264 was from his webpage and you did so without reviewing the data.
Small cross section? 10000 is a big enough data set to get answers from

Why don't you show us how the other 20000 shows a different result?

Keep on failing bro...
Lol keep on making me smile fuckwit
 

echelon1k1

New Member
show your work?you know cite?

You've Been thru 20000 studies and emailed emailed the authors to check

Really?

No I thought you hadn't.......
63 papers from what 20000?

Show your work?


Small cross section? 10000 is a big enough data set to get answers from

Why don't you show us how the other 20000 shows a different result?


Lol keep on making me smile fuckwit
You still don't understand what he say he did cannot be replicated. He cherry picked all the data. I've already linked you through to 2 sites that have shown the study to be incomplete and misleading. If you're to stupid to realise that, I can't help you, but maybe more LSD, crack and smack can...

Meanwhile I stand by what I said, but taking screen grabs and posting pic after pic of search results is something I can't be fucked doing, especially after I've shown you're argument to be based on a bullshit jpeg that cites 3 papers/surveys.

I've provided evidence, you've done nothing but handwaive right from the start...

Go to http://www.webofknowledge.com/ run a search to include the terms 'global climate change' or 'global warming' between 1991 - 2011 and tell us what you come up with.
Same methodology as cooks, I didn't try to mislead you.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
You still don't understand what he say he did cannot be replicated. He cherry picked all the data. I've already linked you through to 2 sites that have shown the study to be incomplete and misleading. If you're to stupid to realise that, I can't help you, but maybe more LSD, crack and smack can...
his study replicated previous studies to pretend otherwise is fucking dumb

You have not shown his data to be misleading and studies can be run perfectly well as long as data set is big enough
Meanwhile I stand by what I said, but taking screen grabs and posting pic after pic of search results is something I can't be fucked doing, especially after I've shown you're argument to be based on a bullshit jpeg that cites 3 papers/surveys.
"I could so my data and it would totally bAck me up.... but it's too hard so I won't.... but it's totally legit honest......if you just do what I did (but won't tell you) you'll totally see....it's just it's impossible for me to show you....it's legit honest....."
I've provided evidence, you've done nothing but handwaive right from the start...



Same methodology as cooks, I didn't try to mislead you.
You haven't provided evidence the problem is you don't seem capable of understanding that
 

echelon1k1

New Member
his study replicated previous studies to pretend otherwise is fucking dumb

You have not shown his data to be misleading and studies can be run perfectly well as long as data set is big enough
"I could so my data and it would totally bAck me up.... but it's too hard so I won't.... but it's totally legit honest......if you just do what I did (but won't tell you) you'll totally see....it's just it's impossible for me to show you....it's legit honest....."

You haven't provided evidence the problem is you don't seem capable of understanding that
Trying to talk reality to a tab head, is like trying to teach a fish to drive; ain't gonna happen... Thankyou for proving this, once again :sleep:
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
If we're working on the solution, why does it matter if I agree with you? Wasting money, time and energy to convince me doesn't do anything to further the transition.
In many places the solutions are being blocked in the denial of the problem

I have no doubt that people like yourself will never change your mind but that doesn't mean we sit here silently while you all proclaim loudly that "everything is fine"
As a matter of fact, I'm with you 100% on the nuclear. But, I think advances in solar will make it the inevitable source of energy in the future. It's just a matter of time and I don't see how increased funding and research can be dismissed as "speculative bullshit". Are you actually asserting that increased research and funding DOESN'T facilitate accelerated advances and breakthroughs?
there's physical limits to how much power you can get from the sun
1.how much sunlight per square meter
2.how efficiently you can convert that to power (there's set limits that we're not far off)
With that in mind your looking at an area similar to Arizona needed to power the USA from solar...

I'd like to see where I asserted anything of the sort...
How is it totalitarian if we voluntarily funnel resources to research and development of the solution instead of spending it on the debate?
it's not happening voluntarily there's a race to the bottom with regard to fossil fuels

the money done on the debate is small change in comparison to the money in fossil fuels
To the last, why do you need a surrender from me, if I'm willing to work with you on the solution even though I disagree with you on why we're doing it?
When all your doing is making unsupported claims denying the problem you are working against any work towards a solution

Stop making it harder and people might want to work with you
 

echelon1k1

New Member
Good thing we didn't listen to the people denying that CFCs destroyed ozone or we would be fucked right now.
Regarding Anderegg et al. and climate change credibility

The study by Anderegg et al. employed suspect methodology that treated publication metrics as a surrogate for expertise. Credentialed scientists, having devoted much of their careers to a certain area, with multiple relevant peer-reviewed publications, should be deemed core experts, notwithstanding that others are more or less prolific in print or that their views stand in the minority.

In the climate change (CC) controversy, a priori, one expects that the much larger and more “politically correct” side would excel in certain publication metrics. They continue to cite each other's work in an upward spiral of self-affirmation. The authors' treatment of these deficiencies in Materials and Methods was unconvincing in the skewed and politically charged environment of the CC hubbub and where one group is in the vast majority.

The data hoarding and publication blockade imbroglio was not addressed at all. The authors' framing of expertise was especially problematic. In a casting pregnant with self-fulfillment, the authors defined number of publications as expertise (italics). The italics were then dropped. Morphing the data of metrics into the conclusion of expertise (not italicized) was best supported by explicit argument in the Discussion section rather than by subtle wordplay. The same applied to prominence, although here the authors’ construct was more aligned with common usage, and of course, prominence does not connote knowledge and correctness in the same way as expertise.

Scientific merit does not derive from the number, productivity, or prominence of those holding a certain view—truth by majority rule or oligarchical fiat. The history of science is replete with views (e.g., a geocentric universe or the immutability of species) that were widely held, held by the most prominent of men, and wrong. Here, we do not have homogeneous consensus absent a few crackpot dissenters. There is variation among the majority, and a minority, with core competency, who question some underlying premises.

It would seem more profitable to critique the scientific evidence than count up scientists, publications, and the like. Policy needs may require action before scientific certainty, but one should not confuse taking a stand with obliteration of the factual and interpretive uncertainties underlying that stand. The majority of climate scientists favor some form of anthropogenic CC (and that view is not disputed here). That they overshadow the small minority of dissenters in certain publication metrics is to be expected as almost tautological.

In the logical fallacy of an ad hominem argument, the characteristics, qualities, or failings of adversaries rather than the merits of their case are argued. Here, the authors addressed the worth of CC critics (and agnostics) as scientists rather than the validity of their science.

Regarding purely scientific questions, it may be justified to discount nonexperts. However, here, dissenters included established climate researchers. The article undermined their expert standing and then, extrapolated expertise to the more personal credibility. Using these methods to portray certain researchers as not credible and, by implication, to be ignored is highly questionable. Tarring them as individuals by group metrics is unwarranted.

Publication of this article as an objective scientific study does a true disservice to scientific discourse. Prominent scientific journals must focus on scientific merit without sway from extracurricular forces. They must remain cautious about lending their imprimatur to works that seem more about agenda and less about science, more about promoting a certain dogma and less about using all of the evidence to better our understanding of the natural world.
 
Top