CAUTION: Not All LE Tubes are Wiredd The Same

PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Oops title should read: Not All LED Tubes are Wired The Same

I learned this after purchasing 23w iBright Tubes and attempting to rewire a T8 fixture to accommodate


http://www.atgelectronics.com/tube/E58i-LED-Tube-(HO-Version).html

It's a vg tube, but...

My friend purchased similar bulbs BUT on his the +/- wires connect at the same end of the tube- the opposite end acts as a mere hanger for the tube

http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=827


This is ideal, as all that needs to be done to convert a conventional shop light is to snip the wires to the non powered end and connect +/= on one end

With the iBrights I have to rewire the tombstones or clip the wires long enough to interface with the driver wires. BUT, only one side of each tombstone needs juice. This simple DIY gets unnecessarily complicated fast

The tombstones are not designed to be taken apart to remove the existing wires, and a pack of 2 tombstones is ~ $5 or $20/8 that I now need. The fixture was only $15!

The disparate wiring for these 2 LED tube products means fixtures are NOT universal

I see big problems down the road

Anyway, I will have the wiring sorted soon. Come by my thread to see what 23w LED tubes can do for flowering
 
So would the ones from led wholesalers be better. I saw they have nw and ww tubes. 20 watts
 
I purchased my tent from LEDWholesalers, and my friend bought LED tubes from them for his dental lab.

If better is easier to rewire then yes. Apparently, they have internal drivers, which may or may not be good in the long run. Should a driver go bad, the whole light is bad. Easier to assemble, yes; but better?

LEDW bulb @ $36 http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=940

LEDW did not specify whose diodes, how many, or show the back side of the tube. The iBright has a clear picture of the diodes, specs Samsung 5050s, the back side is ribbed

They may both be comparable to our beloveds.

I imagine wattage/lumens... will increase soon (price drop?), though not sure how important that is. I mean my last led grow was under ~ 100-120w, 70 of which was from a 3 yo R:B ufo 90 as canopy light during flower. After vegg, the household LED globes were used under canopy. The whole light set up concentrated in < 2ft^2 area. Obviously 4ft tubes provide ~ 2xs the canopy coverage:clap:, meaning one more plant can be grown under them.

Question: At the end of the day how well will the tubes stack up to a quality led lamp such as A 51, which has a smaller footprint, but better everything else?

8 @ 23w tubes = ~ $250 + fixtures (4 bulb fixture is ~ $50-70; 2 @ 2 bulb $30); wattage ~ 160w, maybe more like 150, I do not have a tester

I can use 2 bulbs at a time, so vegging is covered by the same fixture, although a small investment in NWs might be a good idea. That said, I THINK one 4200W + one 2800 will veg just fine (my clones vegged really well under a 22w WW). Anyway, you might want 1/4, the other 3 being ~2800s; that's what I bought.

My plan is to straddle the vanity fixture with the 4 ft shop lamps and lower the vanity fixture below canopy

Pics taken with my DIY globe leds + one 2 tube. Will post additional pic after getting 4 tubes in the tent. They are sending replacement for bad tube. If this had internal driver, would the whole tube be affected?

IMG_1584.jpgIMG_1585.jpgIMG_1586.jpgIMG_1587.jpg
 
Diodes are 3528 Epistar.

Chronikool, what say ye?

I emailed LED Magazine about the need for a standard for wiring led tubes
 
If better is easier to rewire then yes. Apparently, they have internal drivers, which may or may not be good in the long run.
Click to expand...

From an engineering perspective I wanted to share this information. It may not affect every part of the country as I've not come across it being addressed in national electrical codes or NFPA standards but I think it's worth being aware of since it could effect those of you that might one day be considering a large scale retrofit to internal driver T8 LED strips for a garden application.

The internal driver T8 strips require that the original fixture ballast be removed and line voltage brought to the socket terminals. In a nutshell this voids the OEM UL rating of the trouffer or strip light. If there is ever an electrical fire that is near the retrofit, the underwriter for the general liability and property insurance will likely use this modification as a hold harmless escape to not be held liable for damages. I can tell you this as there a number of very large commercial property management companies that will not retrofit to these because of exactly these reasons. There are installations that are allowed in that the fluorescent ballast is removed and power goes to a LED power supply that mounts under the ballast cover and low voltage runs to the new diode strip. This is an external power supply application that the property management and insurance companies have accepted.

So unless you have a compelling reason, ie better plant response than any other option you've ever seen, to do so I'd stay with UL listed external power supply SSL options.
 
In the last 2 days I have had several emails with the Editor of LED Magazine, who gave the same caution

In my case, I completely removed the ballast, so as not to be confused by the additional wiring

Fixture manufacturers should be getting into the LED tube game soon. How soon, and how big they jump in, and which tube wiring design they support will go a long way toward making led tubes viable in commercial applications

One can easily DIY a wooden frame using non-shunt tombstones http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1012
 
Well... $38 (a piece) is for 20 pieces...so im guessing...Single price would probably be $41-45. Dunno...would have to ask..
 
hyroot said:
Its sunlight supply not hydrofarm.

Led tube fixture.

https://sunlightsupply.com/p-14184-agroled-led-fixtures.aspx

https://sunlightsupply.com/p-14182-agroled-t8-led-tubes.aspx

The tubes are weak and overpriced. But the red tubes are 660.
Click to expand...

Ah, you mentioned 660. IMHO it's a throw back to the RB diode days when 500-630nms was overlooked. When you have quality WW diodesthat have a strong 500-630 band (as we have now) then 660 is virtually overkill. My guru says

" > As one can see, the CREE Neutral White (I call it 'Goldilocks', because it's almost 'just right' ) has a RSPD that still allows nearly ~25% of its total power in the blue range (and plants only really 'need' ~8-10%), and more that 1/3 of which (i.e. the area under the curve) is over ~580nm or so (which has a Photosynthetic RS of over 90%!)
>

Thanks, I sent them the following email

what design type is this?

I am aware of at least two different tube wiring designs

1 where +/- on one end of the tube
2 where each pole goes to the opposite end of the tube

I suggest you highlight whichever your is on the various product pages
 
Chronikool said:
Well... $38 (a piece) is for 20 pieces...so im guessing...Single price would probably be $41-45. Dunno...would have to ask..
Click to expand...

You gonna give them a whirl? Pretty please!

Within 3 hours of the second fixture in place both plants look happier. Even though I had pretty decent results last grow under the combination of R:B ufo + globes (total ~100-120w) it appears this combination will way outperform that grow. Between ~ 59w of globes + ~ 80w of tubes = ~140 total watts
 
my local shop said they will give me the 4 bulb fixture for $50. But Im going to wait for the apache tubes to be released. Im going to get 4 4 bulb fixtures for side lighting. Cmh on top.
 
hyroot said:
my local shop said they will give me the 4 bulb fixture for $50. But Im going to wait for the apache tubes to be released. Im going to get 4 4 bulb fixtures for side lighting. Cmh on top.
Click to expand...

They actually just did that as a quick test and noticed an huge increase in the side that had it. They added a 6 tube setup for only the last 3 weeks though. Nothing official but it is promising.
I see the potential of the tubes. Specially for veg IMO. But blue and red could make great supplemental light to other systems and to enhance flowering. I'll keep bugging apache about their tubes. They said they were going on the site sooner than anything else, we will see.

This was an email I sent to apache about tubes on the market only in the 18w-20w range. They said 24w versions are available. It was just a quick search to see how theirs stacked up. Unlike their normal units, their tubes will be evenly priced with the rest of the world.

1800-2000 lumens with UL and 3yr warranty Factory Price for 18W 4FT T8 LED Tube [T8-4FT-18W]
1650lm...instructions on rewiring installation 20W T8 1200mm 4 Foot LED Fluorescent Tube Light
1900lm w/ UL and 5yr warranty T8 4 Foot LED Tube, LED Tube Light, LED Tube Lighting - ELEDLights.com
1530lm w/ 3yr warranty 18W T8 LED Tube Light, SMD3020 T8 LED Tube, LED Tube - JLEDs
Cheap chinaNew High Power Super Bright Outdoor 18w Led Tube Light T8,Price Led Tube Light T8,Led Grow Lights T8 - Buy Led Tube Light,Price Led Tube Light T8,Led Grow Lights T8 Product on Alibaba.com
4 bulb fiture $78 and 8bulb fitxure $140 fixtures
Sun light supply only 1yr warranty. red, blue, white. Sun System AgroLED T8 Blue/White LED Grow Light Tubes | 901418 Sun System AgroLED T8 Blue/White LED Grow Light Tubes | 901418 | Tropic lighting.com
The whole sun systems line Sunlight AgroLED T8 LED Fixtures - Plantlighting Hydroponics & Grow Lights
It's not a floro replacement but you can compete for sure. LumiGrow: LumiGrow Lumibar LED Light
similar to the lumigrow but you also kill these for the price. All Purpose White Growth Spectrum - Build My LED, LLC
these guys target office buildings iBright&#8482; E58i LED Tube (HO Version) - LED Lighting Systems

Funny how all the grow specific tubes are so low in output, even in white.

Examples of uses
This is a cool thing and opportunity...must watch Aquaponic Farm with Fish & Vegetables at a Former Meat Packing Factory at Plant Chicago - YouTube
It is cool to look at Illumitex Horticulture LEDs in World's largest Indoor Vertical Farm! - YouTube
Tomatoes Need Blue Light
 
Is apache just making them with red / blue or will there be ww and nw leds? I would like to run ww and maybe a combo of 630/660/ww.
 
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