$2 f-series strips

vitalsine said:

I ordered an assload of these strips when they were on blowout sale lol. I've got some 2' double row F-Series strips and some 2' single row H-Series strips. These lights would be built with the single row H-Series. They will be 4' x 4', one of them will probably go into a 5' x 5' tent and the others are going to be for my buddies 10' x 10' room, so we'd hang 4 in the 10' x 10' space. I will probably get the B drivers so that we can put a dimmer.

Does it matter how many single row strips I use on the 24B driver, so long as I have enough power? I was going to put 2 320's on there so I could put 16 strips. They're 22.5v each and the driver looks like it can handle 431v, if I am reading it correctly?

I guess another question I have, is that if I built the 4' x 4' light, it would only be about 640w with this current setup... Could I cram another 8 strips and another driver on there, or is that too much for a 4' x 4' light? I don't see too many designs calling for more than 16 strips on a light of this size, but 640w isn't really enough wattage for a 5' x 5', right? I only have that much in there now and it seems to have worked really well, buds are super tight and got some fat colas, but based on most peoples recommendations of at least 30w / sq. ft, 640w just isn't enough for a 5' x 5'. I think this also applies to the 10' x 10' spot, it'd only be 2560w.

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The C1400B driver you linked is only good for 234V. For a 5x5 you want around 750w so I would use a HLG-480H-24 paired with an HLG-320H-24. You might as well make the fixtures 4’x5’ if you intend to cover 5x5 areas.

NukaKola said:

The C1400B driver you linked is only good for 234V. For a 5x5 you want around 750w so I would use a HLG-480H-24 paired with an HLG-320H-24. You might as well make the fixtures 4’x5’ if you intend to cover 5x5 areas.

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Good point haha. So basically each driver can handle up to 10 strips? Also, would I run more strips through the 480, or are the drivers wired together and then the lights get wired in? I was under the impression that each driver ran a bunch of strips, like in my previous example, 8 strips are run off each driver. With the 480 would I run 12 strips off it, and then run the 8 strips off the 320? And just for clarification, I can pretty much run as many strips as I want per driver, so long as I don't go over the output voltage? What is it that causes the lights to heat up more? I want to run these as efficiently as possible so that I don't burn them out or generate too much heat on the boards themselves. Drivers would be set up outside of the tent. Sorry for the barrage of questions. I'm confident I'll be able to figure this out when the time comes, but you're really helping me save some confusion and possibly buying the wrong shit. I am beyond grateful for you helping my dumb ass haha.

raratt said:

The A drivers have a built in adjuster.
View attachment 4731290

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Good to know!

vitalsine said:

Good point haha. So basically each driver can handle up to 10 strips? Also, would I run more strips through the 480, or are the drivers wired together and then the lights get wired in? I was under the impression that each driver ran a bunch of strips, like in my previous example, 8 strips are run off each driver. With the 480 would I run 12 strips off it, and then run the 8 strips off the 320? And just for clarification, I can pretty much run as many strips as I want per driver, so long as I don't go over the output voltage? What is it that causes the lights to heat up more? I want to run these as efficiently as possible so that I don't burn them out or generate too much heat on the boards themselves. Drivers would be set up outside of the tent. Sorry for the barrage of questions. I'm confident I'll be able to figure this out when the time comes, but you're really helping me save some confusion and possibly buying the wrong shit. I am beyond grateful for you helping my dumb ass haha.

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The 2’ H series can only handle a max of 1200ma (1.2A) at 22.5v. That means a max of 27w, and running them that hard will require heatsinks. If you run them around 600ma you don’t need heatsinks and would be putting out ~13.5w per strip.

With the HLG-320H/480H-24 drivers you don’t need to worry about voltage. Since you are wiring the strips in parallel they will split the current. Each driver needs to be wired to its own bank of strips, you don’t wire the drivers together.

So if you ran the 2’ H series strips at max (1.2A) with heatsinks, you would want at least 12 strips per 320h driver and 18 strips per 480h driver.

If you ran the strips at ~50% so you don’t need to run heatsinks you would need to double the amount of strips. 24 per 320h driver and 36 per 480h driver.

These are the minimum. You can always run more strips, it will just run them softer.

The A series style drivers have an internal pot built in to dim the lights but can only be dimmed up to 50% and you would have to use a screwdriver on each driver when you want to dim.

The B series you have to wire on an external dimmer but you can wire it to an area that is easy to access and can even wire multiple drivers to one dimmer.

I was thinking of adding a small mA meter inline of the drivers to measure the adjusted outputs also.

NukaKola said:

The 2’ H series can only handle a max of 1200ma (1.2A) at 22.5v. That means a max of 27w, and running them that hard will require heatsinks. If you run them around 600ma you don’t need heatsinks and would be putting out ~13.5w per strip.

With the HLG-320H/480H-24 drivers you don’t need to worry about voltage. Since you are wiring the strips in parallel they will split the current. Each driver needs to be wired to its own bank of strips, you don’t wire the drivers together.

So if you ran the 2’ H series strips at max (1.2A) with heatsinks, you would want at least 12 strips per 320h driver and 18 strips per 480h driver.

If you ran the strips at ~50% so you don’t need to run heatsinks you would need to double the amount of strips. 24 per 320h driver and 36 per 480h driver.

These are the minimum. You can always run more strips, it will just run them softer.

The A series style drivers have an internal pot built in to dim the lights but can only be dimmed up to 50% and you would have to use a screwdriver on each driver when you want to dim.

The B series you have to wire on an external dimmer but you can wire it to an area that is easy to access and can even wire multiple drivers to one dimmer.

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You've been beyond helpful brother. Answered all my questions haha. I have some heatsinks but they aren't the greatest, some cheap aluminum I got on a deal, someone actually shared them on here haha.


I was going to play with those and use them for the time being. I will probably start by running them pretty soft and see how it goes. Will definitely get the B series as well so that I can run an external dimmer. Thanks again!

vitalsine said:

external driver.

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I believe the potentiometer needs to be 50 ohm...

raratt said:

I believe the potentiometer needs to be 50 ohm...

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I was incorrect according to the LED grower site, 100k.

raratt said:

I believe the potentiometer needs to be 50 ohm...

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raratt said:

I was incorrect according to the LED grower site, 100k.

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You are technically right for both lol 100k pot for one driver, 50k pot for 2 drivers.

NukaKola said:

You are technically right for both lol 100k pot for one driver, 50k pot for 2 drivers.

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Wouldn't they require a pot for each?

NukaKola said:

Instead of a CC driver wired in series I would get a CV driver and wire it in parallel, it is a safer voltage to work with.

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Hey I have a question about this statement? not saying you are wrong at all, I just don't fully understand. I have heard this argument both ways (series vs parallel), and from what I can tell any of the builds we are working on can be deadly once they are over 30-40W? I feel like I am missing a piece of the puzzle and not too ashamed to ask. Hoping this also helps someone else.

So i get that lower than 54v is technically 'safer', but isn't that only true when running at way lower current than we are? Won't 1a of current kill you pretty quick too?

Take a 240W light as an example. Lets use 10 EB2 24V strips running 1a per strip to make the math super simple.

Parallel CV - 24v/10A driver - or - Series CC - 1a/240v driver. How is either of those 'safer' that the other?

From how I have been looking at it, series would be safer especially for new DIY users bc if your circuit fails at some point in the chain, everything just stops working. With parallel, if running strips at max wattage, and one of your strips or wiring points fails, you could run into an issue with thermal runaway and potentially cause a fire. So you have to add resistors and/or fuses or run the strips at 1/2 max wattage to account for that in your design. Parallel also seems like with more wires there is more possible failure points? I get that people like to use parallel bc u can squeeze a few more volts out of them and maybe get another strip or 2 onto a build especially if using A or A/B drivers. Seems to me like overall Series would be the safer choice for new builders, but that either one of them is potentially dangerous so people shouldn't get a false sense of security either way.

edit- I should clarify this is also partially out of being lazy and cheap. Series is less wiring, less wires, and smaller wagos. im building some fixtures for friends atm tho and if parallel is safer ill spend the extra $2 on parts and wire the better way.

ps - there's gotta be someone else out there willing to raise their hand and say they are confused too so I don't have to feel like a total electronics n00b all alone.

ilovereggae said:

Hey I have a question about this statement? not saying you are wrong at all, I just don't fully understand. I have heard this argument both ways (series vs parallel), and from what I can tell any of the builds we are working on can be deadly once they are over 30-40W? I feel like I am missing a piece of the puzzle and not too ashamed to ask. Hoping this also helps someone else.

So i get that lower than 54v is technically 'safer', but isn't that only true when running at way lower current than we are? Won't 1a of current kill you pretty quick too?

Take a 240W light as an example. Lets use EB2 24V strips running 1a per strip to make the math super simple.

Parallel CV - 24v/10A driver with 10 strips - or - Series CC - 1a/240v driver. How is either of those 'safer' that the other?

From how I have been looking at it, series would be safer especially for new DIY users bc if your circuit fails at some point in the chain, everything just stops working. With parallel, if running strips at max wattage, and one of your strips or wiring points fails, you could run into an issue with thermal runaway and potentially cause a fire. So you have to add resistors and/or fuses or run the strips at 1/2 max wattage to account for that in your design. Parallel also seems like with more wires there is more possible failure points? I get that people like to use parallel bc u can squeeze a few more volts out of them and maybe get another strip or 2 onto a build especially if using A or A/B drivers. Seems to me like overall Series would be the safer choice for new builders, but that either one of them is potentially dangerous so people shouldn't get a false sense of security either way.

ps - there's gotta be someone else out there willing to raise their hand and say they are confused too so I don't have to feel like a total electronics n00b all alone.

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raratt said:

Current and Voltage Effects on Human Body - An Electrical Engineer

Human skin resistance varied from 400 ohms for wet skin to 500000 ohm for dry skin and the calculate equation is V=0.1×400=40 Volt.

www.anelectricalengineer.com

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i understand that. I was going off of this statement I found somewhere online and saved:

"Currents above 10 mA cause severe contraction of the muscles, and a person may not be able to release the source of the current. Death from paralysis of the respiratory system can occur. If a current above 80 to 100 mA passes across the torso, so that a portion passes through the heart for more than a second or two, the heart muscles will begin to contract irregularly and blood will not be pumped. This condition is called ventricular fibrillation."

Your link makes it even simpler for me.

"The fatal voltage for a human body is 40 Volts and above. Considering 100mA as fatal current and 400 ohms as body resistance, the voltage may be calculated by this equation.."

so wouldn't that mean that 20V 200mA would be fatal too? Or 10V 400mA?

I still don't see why in my example fixture parallel would be safer than series?

ilovereggae said:

i understand that. I was going off of this statement I found somewhere online and saved:

"Currents above 10 mA cause severe contraction of the muscles, and a person may not be able to release the source of the current. Death from paralysis of the respiratory system can occur. If a current above 80 to 100 mA passes across the torso, so that a portion passes through the heart for more than a second or two, the heart muscles will begin to contract irregularly and blood will not be pumped. This condition is called ventricular fibrillation."

Your link makes it even simpler for me.

"The fatal voltage for a human body is 40 Volts and above. Considering 100mA as fatal current and 400 ohms as body resistance, the voltage may be calculated by this equation.."

so wouldn't that mean that 20V 200mA would be fatal too? Or 10V 400mA?

I still don't see why how in my example fixture parallel would be safer than series?

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Dry skin has a resistance of 1K-100K ohms, so that needs to be part of the equation also. By not working on energized circuits you would be fine. Being aware of the possibilities is a good safety measure. A good rule of thumb is above 50V, current is the flow, voltage is the pressure.

ilovereggae said:

Hey I have a question about this statement? not saying you are wrong at all, I just don't fully understand. I have heard this argument both ways (series vs parallel), and from what I can tell any of the builds we are working on can be deadly once they are over 30-40W? I feel like I am missing a piece of the puzzle and not too ashamed to ask. Hoping this also helps someone else.

So i get that lower than 54v is technically 'safer', but isn't that only true when running at way lower current than we are? Won't 1a of current kill you pretty quick too?

Take a 240W light as an example. Lets use 10 EB2 24V strips running 1a per strip to make the math super simple.

Parallel CV - 24v/10A driver - or - Series CC - 1a/240v driver. How is either of those 'safer' that the other?

From how I have been looking at it, series would be safer especially for new DIY users bc if your circuit fails at some point in the chain, everything just stops working. With parallel, if running strips at max wattage, and one of your strips or wiring points fails, you could run into an issue with thermal runaway and potentially cause a fire. So you have to add resistors and/or fuses or run the strips at 1/2 max wattage to account for that in your design. Parallel also seems like with more wires there is more possible failure points? I get that people like to use parallel bc u can squeeze a few more volts out of them and maybe get another strip or 2 onto a build especially if using A or A/B drivers. Seems to me like overall Series would be the safer choice for new builders, but that either one of them is potentially dangerous so people shouldn't get a false sense of security either way.

ps - there's gotta be someone else out there willing to raise their hand and say they are confused too so I don't have to feel like a total electronics n00b all alone.

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In DC world, voltage is the danger. I have hybrid training that deals with high amp 500 volt systems, we were taught back in the day that voltage is the electrical push, I will take a hit from 54 volts and 6 amps before I would try 500 volts and 1 amp. If that makes any sense.

J232 said:

In DC world, voltage is the danger. I have hybrid training that deals with high amp 500 volt systems, we were taught back in the day that voltage is the electrical push, I will take a hit from 54 volts and 6 amps before I would try 500 volts and 1 amp. If that makes any sense.

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I've welded by accident with 24V, it was 300A though.

raratt said:

I've welded by accident with 24V, it was 300A though.

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You can weld a wrench across a battery too and hold it, it won’t shock you, wet your arm and set it on a fender, touch the positive, feels like a 9 volt sensation. DC don’t use earth ground, unless your playing with high voltage, most stuff has a lot of resistance, need more push. A car generator, rectifier converts ac to dc at about 190 amps and 14 volts, your can grab your battery post with no effect. Hybrid voltage is a different story, that’s instant death at 490 volts and high amps, when you can discharge high potential voltage quickly, DC is dangerous. High voltage drivers are closer to this imo.

raratt said:

I've welded by accident with 24V, it was 300A though.

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Low voltage high amps though, I bump a wrench on a battery while working under a hood on a diesel, blows a chunk of my wrench off lol. 1000amps but 12 volts.

J232 said:

You can weld a wrench across a battery too and hold it, it won’t shock you, wet your arm and set it on a fender, touch the positive, feels like a 9 volt sensation. DC don’t use earth ground, unless your playing with high voltage, most stuff has a lot of resistance, need more push. A car generator, rectifier converts ac to dc at about 190 amps and 14 volts, your can grab your battery post with no effect. Hybrid voltage is a different story, that’s instant death at 490 volts and high amps, when you can discharge high potential voltage quickly, DC is dangerous. High voltage drivers are closer to this imo.

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An electronic ignition can go to 60KV, but with a very low current, it hurts but doesn't kill, lol.

J232 said:

Low voltage high amps though, I bump a wrench on a battery while working under a hood on a diesel, blows a chunk of my wrench off lol. 1000amps but 12 volts.

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Most diesels I have seen run a pair of 12V batteries.