2022 elections. The steady march for sanity continues.

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
I was just looking at the Wiki entry on RICO. In ‘85 and ‘86, a Rudy Giuliani used it to imprison the heads of 11 New York crime families.

Wonder if the boot will now be on the other foot.
Another indicator of how far Rudi’s fallen: he of ALL people has no business being such a loose cannon - such a witless, clumsy, Dunning-Kruger extravaganza of fail, that man.

HE SHOULD REMEMBER - he should be ABLE to remember, anyway
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Well…off of *that* hook, anyway: At least, here in the states, deals don’t often let cooperating witnesses skate free & clear on *everything*. Expect those ~8 to get indicted for lower-level stuff (mostly), but not appear on the marquee indictment
Forgery with a deal is better than Ricco without one!
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Well that seems like a helluva thing…
I dunno what the deal with the 8 electors are, but their lawyer never offered them the deal when they should have and was removed from the case over it. It might have something to do with cutting them slack for cooperation and they might not be indicted at all.
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Lawyer likely didn’t tell them about the deal because lawyer knew they’d take & wanted them to stonewall instead (?). Omertà, thin blue/blood line, ride or die, something.

Yes, the deal has to with cutting a deal in terms of slack in return for cooperation. Kinda the definition of cutting a deal (in context)
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Axelrod warns Cornel West bid could tip election to Trump
Democratic strategist David Axelrod said the Green Party bid by academic Cornel West could draw votes away from President Biden, leading to a victory for former President Trump.

“In 2016, the Green Party played an outsized role in tipping the election to Donald Trump. Now, with Cornel West as their likely nominee, they could easily do it again. Risky business,” he tweeted.

West is seeking the Green Party nomination as a progressive candidate, driven by a pursuit for social and economic justice, he said in a campaign announcement.

Axelrod compared West to 2016 Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who some blamed for splitting the vote for Hillary Clinton in key electoral states, potentially causing Clinton’s electoral loss to former President Trump.

Stein won more votes than Trump’s margin of victory in Wisconsin and Michigan, states which would have tipped the outcome of the election if Clinton had won them.

Democrats have raised concerns over attempts to float third party candidates in a Biden-Trump 2024 matchup, including by West and by the organization “No Labels,” who have pledged to put forth a “unity ticket,” which would exist outside the two-party system.

Republican strategists have shared similar concerns, with former Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway saying West poses a big threat to Biden’s campaign.

A poll last month found that nearly half of voters would at least consider a third party candidate in a second Biden-Trump matchup. The most popular potential candidates in that poll were Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.). Sanders has backed Biden, while Manchin and Cheney have not publicly announced their 2024 plans.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Axelrod warns Cornel West bid could tip election to Trump
Democratic strategist David Axelrod said the Green Party bid by academic Cornel West could draw votes away from President Biden, leading to a victory for former President Trump.

“In 2016, the Green Party played an outsized role in tipping the election to Donald Trump. Now, with Cornel West as their likely nominee, they could easily do it again. Risky business,” he tweeted.

West is seeking the Green Party nomination as a progressive candidate, driven by a pursuit for social and economic justice, he said in a campaign announcement.

Axelrod compared West to 2016 Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who some blamed for splitting the vote for Hillary Clinton in key electoral states, potentially causing Clinton’s electoral loss to former President Trump.

Stein won more votes than Trump’s margin of victory in Wisconsin and Michigan, states which would have tipped the outcome of the election if Clinton had won them.

Democrats have raised concerns over attempts to float third party candidates in a Biden-Trump 2024 matchup, including by West and by the organization “No Labels,” who have pledged to put forth a “unity ticket,” which would exist outside the two-party system.

Republican strategists have shared similar concerns, with former Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway saying West poses a big threat to Biden’s campaign.

A poll last month found that nearly half of voters would at least consider a third party candidate in a second Biden-Trump matchup. The most popular potential candidates in that poll were Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.). Sanders has backed Biden, while Manchin and Cheney have not publicly announced their 2024 plans.
a vote for Manchin is a vote for the GOP.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Nearly a quarter of Republicans say classified docs charges make them more likely to support Trump: poll
More than 20 percent of Republicans surveyed said certain criminal charges against former President Trump have made them more likely to support him in the 2024 election, according to a new Ipsos poll released Thursday.

About 24 percent of polled Republicans say the charges in the classified documents investigation make them more likely to support Trump, while 21 percent said the same with regard to the 34-count indictment related to falsified business records in a Manhattan court case.

Trump was charged with 37 felonies related to alleged mishandling of classified documents at his Florida home. He also faces 34 criminal counts related to falsifying business records in a case in which he allegedly made hush money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels.
The largest proportion of Americans identifying with any party said the cases hurt their opinion of Trump or don’t change their likelihood of supporting him, 41 and 37 percent respectively.

If Trump is found guilty on the charges, about 10 percent of Republicans said they would be more likely to support him.
The findings support polling from last month that found that a majority of Americans, and approximately 80 percent of Republicans, believe that the criminal charges are politically motivated.

The survey also found that most Democrats believe Trump is guilty, while Republicans are split. Most Americans also want Trump’s trial to take place before the 2024 election.

The Ipsos poll has a margin of error of 3.8 points. It was conducted in late June after Trump had been indicted in both cases. Some 1,005 American adults were surveyed, including 374 Republicans, 441 Democrats and 122 independents.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Nearly a quarter of Republicans say classified docs charges make them more likely to support Trump: poll
More than 20 percent of Republicans surveyed said certain criminal charges against former President Trump have made them more likely to support him in the 2024 election, according to a new Ipsos poll released Thursday.

About 24 percent of polled Republicans say the charges in the classified documents investigation make them more likely to support Trump, while 21 percent said the same with regard to the 34-count indictment related to falsified business records in a Manhattan court case.

Trump was charged with 37 felonies related to alleged mishandling of classified documents at his Florida home. He also faces 34 criminal counts related to falsifying business records in a case in which he allegedly made hush money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels.
The largest proportion of Americans identifying with any party said the cases hurt their opinion of Trump or don’t change their likelihood of supporting him, 41 and 37 percent respectively.

If Trump is found guilty on the charges, about 10 percent of Republicans said they would be more likely to support him.
The findings support polling from last month that found that a majority of Americans, and approximately 80 percent of Republicans, believe that the criminal charges are politically motivated.

The survey also found that most Democrats believe Trump is guilty, while Republicans are split. Most Americans also want Trump’s trial to take place before the 2024 election.

The Ipsos poll has a margin of error of 3.8 points. It was conducted in late June after Trump had been indicted in both cases. Some 1,005 American adults were surveyed, including 374 Republicans, 441 Democrats and 122 independents.
that-makes-perfect-sense-stan-marsh.gif
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Axelrod warns Cornel West bid could tip election to Trump
Democratic strategist David Axelrod said the Green Party bid by academic Cornel West could draw votes away from President Biden, leading to a victory for former President Trump.

“In 2016, the Green Party played an outsized role in tipping the election to Donald Trump. Now, with Cornel West as their likely nominee, they could easily do it again. Risky business,” he tweeted.

West is seeking the Green Party nomination as a progressive candidate, driven by a pursuit for social and economic justice, he said in a campaign announcement.

Axelrod compared West to 2016 Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who some blamed for splitting the vote for Hillary Clinton in key electoral states, potentially causing Clinton’s electoral loss to former President Trump.

Stein won more votes than Trump’s margin of victory in Wisconsin and Michigan, states which would have tipped the outcome of the election if Clinton had won them.

Democrats have raised concerns over attempts to float third party candidates in a Biden-Trump 2024 matchup, including by West and by the organization “No Labels,” who have pledged to put forth a “unity ticket,” which would exist outside the two-party system.

Republican strategists have shared similar concerns, with former Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway saying West poses a big threat to Biden’s campaign.

A poll last month found that nearly half of voters would at least consider a third party candidate in a second Biden-Trump matchup. The most popular potential candidates in that poll were Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.). Sanders has backed Biden, while Manchin and Cheney have not publicly announced their 2024 plans.
I always thought well of Dr West, but this seems like a sketchy move, which kinda bruises my impression of him
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Nearly a quarter of Republicans say classified docs charges make them more likely to support Trump: poll
More than 20 percent of Republicans surveyed said certain criminal charges against former President Trump have made them more likely to support him in the 2024 election, according to a new Ipsos poll released Thursday.

About 24 percent of polled Republicans say the charges in the classified documents investigation make them more likely to support Trump, while 21 percent said the same with regard to the 34-count indictment related to falsified business records in a Manhattan court case.

Trump was charged with 37 felonies related to alleged mishandling of classified documents at his Florida home. He also faces 34 criminal counts related to falsifying business records in a case in which he allegedly made hush money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels.
The largest proportion of Americans identifying with any party said the cases hurt their opinion of Trump or don’t change their likelihood of supporting him, 41 and 37 percent respectively.

If Trump is found guilty on the charges, about 10 percent of Republicans said they would be more likely to support him.
The findings support polling from last month that found that a majority of Americans, and approximately 80 percent of Republicans, believe that the criminal charges are politically motivated.

The survey also found that most Democrats believe Trump is guilty, while Republicans are split. Most Americans also want Trump’s trial to take place before the 2024 election.

The Ipsos poll has a margin of error of 3.8 points. It was conducted in late June after Trump had been indicted in both cases. Some 1,005 American adults were surveyed, including 374 Republicans, 441 Democrats and 122 independents.
This says so much - and all the wrong things

“Most democrats believe trump is guilty” because we told the same lies as kids, and our kids have told them to us; because we learned that we couldn’t get through life just making stuff up, and because ‘taking things on faith’ has cost so many of us so dearly. Most of us believe Trump is guilty because we’ve been watching him put on this aggressive spoiled-brat asshole in full view & essentially dared EVERYBODY ago *make* him act like a grown-up; in contrast, the preferred “news sources” for the MAGA faithful hide all that: they are in the business of pushing “conservatism” to the forefront and attacking the Democratic Party, liberals, “liberals” (the imaginary ones that live in their heads (& *nowhere* else), and possible servants classes. Instead of looking at only comfortable opinions, we take in a wide variety of news sources & can navigate the differences between bias and bullshit, as opposed to the constant conflation & liestorm they use to keep their voters drowsy & off-balance & misinformed.

That 10% say they’d like him even better as a convicted felon exposes a really ugly question: how will ANY of this ever be “over” as long as ~10% are gleefully prepared to keep throwing sand in the gears in perpetuity? What kind of havoc could be created by so many heavily-armed people catching the stochastic vibe & doing a little slap’n’tickle terrorizing? It’s not like it never happens now, or never happened before, but that implies a helluvan endorsement
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I’m relocating this here from the Canadian matters thread.

No Labels does look like a Judas goat for the fascists. Advancing cryptocon Manchin as their lead candidate is not a good look.

Interesting and somewhat creepy read:

This rather supports the idea that No Labels is a conservative spoiler. Who has tax policy like this? Certainly not centrists. From Wiki.

Efforts to block tax increases on the wealthiest Americans and corporations, especially in 2021 and 2022, have been attributed to No Labels by The Intercept[10] and Jacobin.[11]

And this! Centrist my maiden aunt Fanny. Emphasis mine.

Along with nearly two dozen new donors, The New Republic reported in 2023 that No Labels has received major funding that included Harlan Crow, a leading donor to Republican and conservative causes who became embroiled in controversy related to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.[39]

Critics of the organization have suggested that, in practice, No Labels works to advance the financial interests of the wealthy.[38][40][41] This has been echoed in critiques that the group caters to the special interests that drive partisanship (instead of promoting bipartisanship)[7] with Frank Rich opining, "what America needs is not another political organization with a toothless agenda and less-than-transparent finances".[42]
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It is shocking that 44% of Americans would vote for Trump, that is insane and pathological considering recent history. Obviously, facts don't matter much to most of them, but it is also a threat to the GOP that could wipe them out, if Trump turns on them. If he wins the nomination, he will be imprisoned before the election, perhaps before the convention in 24. If he loses the nomination, he will turn on the republicans and attack their nominee who "cheated" him then accuse them of being RINOs and selling out. He will run from a prison cell and nominate his own loyalist candidates. They are stuck with Donald all the way to the end, and he will toss in a hand grenade on the way out anyway. What Donald does could be the key to a democratic landslide in 24, if he divides the rightwing vote and attacks the establishment republicans on the way down it could go very badly for the GOP in 24.

Even if Donald was to win the nomination and runs for POTUS from a cell, many states would disqualify him from the ballot using the 14th amendment. No criminal conviction is required to evoke it and I can see a dozen or more states using it in 24 if Trump is the GOP nominee or even runs as an independent.

 
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topcat

Well-Known Member
The Green Party cannot get a substantive candidate anymore. I used to belong, but Stein was enough to make me leave. Sad, really. Now unaffiliated, but will never vote Repuslicken.
Axelrod warns Cornel West bid could tip election to Trump
Democratic strategist David Axelrod said the Green Party bid by academic Cornel West could draw votes away from President Biden, leading to a victory for former President Trump.

“In 2016, the Green Party played an outsized role in tipping the election to Donald Trump. Now, with Cornel West as their likely nominee, they could easily do it again. Risky business,” he tweeted.

West is seeking the Green Party nomination as a progressive candidate, driven by a pursuit for social and economic justice, he said in a campaign announcement.

Axelrod compared West to 2016 Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who some blamed for splitting the vote for Hillary Clinton in key electoral states, potentially causing Clinton’s electoral loss to former President Trump.

Stein won more votes than Trump’s margin of victory in Wisconsin and Michigan, states which would have tipped the outcome of the election if Clinton had won them.

Democrats have raised concerns over attempts to float third party candidates in a Biden-Trump 2024 matchup, including by West and by the organization “No Labels,” who have pledged to put forth a “unity ticket,” which would exist outside the two-party system.

Republican strategists have shared similar concerns, with former Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway saying West poses a big threat to Biden’s campaign.

A poll last month found that nearly half of voters would at least consider a third party candidate in a second Biden-Trump matchup. The most popular potential candidates in that poll were Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and former Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.). Sanders has backed Biden, while Manchin and Cheney have not publicly announced their 2024 plans.
 
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