4/12 Court Support for Steven Sanderson Bay County Sec 8 Trial

TheMan13 said:

What you cannot man up an answer to my simple and direct question, but you can insinuate I'm a racist in a reply to another's post? Your willingness to baseless slander others, first Sanderson and now me, says something about your character ...

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Lol. I didn't say you were racist at all. I just said that you took a quote that was talking about REAL evil and used it to blow what you see as unfairness out of proportion. Unfairness and evil are 2 different things.

The answer to your simple question, is if Leo kicks in your door and you'res within your dry numbers etc., and all the other stuff then 99% they're going to have no problem with you.

I personally have a close friend who had his door kicked in a few years ago. Yeah, they were dicks and they treated him like a criminal at that moment because they believed he was. When it was all said and done, they found out he was doing nothing wrong. He produced documentation for the cash in his pocket, received all property they seized, and no charges were filed. Crazy right? No crime to charge him with so he wasn't charged, amazing.

On the other hand, if against all odds they kick in your door and set you up and make up crimes against you just to try to put you in jail for no reason, I'll have anybody's back over that. I just don't believe that's happening in most of these cases, including this one.

TheMan13 said:

When they show up harvest day at your place and your district attorney and LEO lay you out like a criminal (aka living outside the "law") to the media, who are you going to call? Or are you a gardener/patient pulling exactly 2.5 ounces on demand from your garden of always less than 12 "plants"? What happens to someone like you or I when they come for us? Will you hide like a cockroach and just take what's coming to you That tough on "crime" stance doesn't shake out in reality brother ...

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Oh, this was the question you're referring to.

First, Identifying you and I as "us", like we're in the same group as growers is nonsensical. I don't associate myself with anyone else but me. The reason is because I don't know what you're doing in your grow room and you don't know what's in mine, therefore I can't speak for you and your routine like you're trying to speak for me.

So I'm answering the question as to what I would do if Leo kicked in my door and I was breaking the law and they charged me with a crime. I'm not really sure. If I were breaking the law I suppose I'd take responsibility for my actions like a man and deal with it from there.

I can tell you what I wouldn't be doing though, whining and the Internet about how I was wronged by "them" and how I'm innocent and life's not fair.

Then again I'm not really worried about that since I'm in compliance with the guidelines laid out in the law. Piece of cake.

TheMan13 said:

Comrades you never cease to amaze and disappoint me. So with your understanding of crime and punishment (lawyer despotism) and the "law", exactly which criminal felony counts and how much time should the men and women providing caregiver services to one of the numerous epileptic children or other patients with legitimate medicinal needs for cannabis oil face? Does it matter if their doctor had the balls to spell it out (cannabis oil) on a script, with their DEA number and all? What about those synthetic THC results from the crime lab? How would the "warehouse grows" and "synthetic THC labs" required to provide cannabis oil be portrayed to the media via LEO and the courts?

While your doing your lawyer math, what if that epileptic child is an out of state patient as provided for under our law? Charge them both federally for interstate schedule I felonies as well? How does your lawyer math (aka exploiting LARA licensing requirements to nullify section 4 mmj protections) work out in that out of state instance ever? Or do you just simply ignore those facts of the matter as you (they) do the uninterrupted supply right of the section 8. At least try to understand the fallacy and cannabigotry (lawyer math) you aim to perpetuate ...

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Save your memes, and your hollier than thou rants for someone else. I'm confident that I've done more to help people out than you ever will.

st0wandgrow said:

Save your memes, and your hollier than thou rants for someone else. I'm confident that I've done more to help people out than you ever will.

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Really? I'm just some piece of shit and you are the real deal because you say so? As usual you are more confident than correct, but this time you've lost my respect.

Talking about this criminal legal process brings about understanding/education, that is my goal/intent here. What is your goal/intent here?

For every Sanderson who is willing to come forward and be criticized by the likes of you there are thousands who will not. Why?

I'm attempting to talk about the only cases publicly available. Granted they may not be the best case scenarios, but there is literally nothing else for me to work with. The question is was this family's home raided lawfully given the LARA licenced patient and caregiver within and MMMA in general? Over a year later and on his court date he's given a misdemeanor plea. Something doesn't add up to either "justice" or the rule of law here and as always my question will never be answered (or be reviewable under the law) ...

TheMan13 said:

but this time you've lost my respect.
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So?

TheMan13 said:

What is your goal/intent here?

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To point out that not everyone growing pot is doing so for the reasons you like to insinuate. Do you honestly believe that there aren't cash croppers hiding behind the MMMP? You're living under a rock if you think otherwise.

If someone is growing beyond their plant count to supply a cancer patient or something of the like, and they get popped, then I support that person 100% and will help out where I can. If someone gets popped with 300 plants and is cash cropping under the guise of "medical marijuana", then I don't feel badly for them. I don't wish ill will on anyone growing weed, but I certainly can distinguish between the two scenarios.

It sucks to see anyone go to jail over a plant, but people know the risks involved. Pushing the boundaries of the law to help an ill patient is noble. Pushing the boundaries of the law to line your own pockets... not so much. Those lines appear to be blurred in your eyes, and anyone that disagrees with you is on the receiving end of your hollier-than-thou rants.

So again, save it for someone that cares about your opinion.

Motorbuds said:

I personally have a close friend who had his door kicked in a few years ago. Yeah, they were dicks and they treated him like a criminal at that moment because they believed he was. When it was all said and done, they found out he was doing nothing wrong. He produced documentation for the cash in his pocket, received all property they seized, and no charges were filed. Crazy right? No crime to charge him with so he wasn't charged, amazing.

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What was the probable cause used to justify the raid of your friend's home?

Is your point that you lack empathy for any raid victim regardless if they are a "friend" or stranger

Honestly I fail to understand why you've chosen to post within this thread at all. Are you trying to troll Sanderson, me or both of us?

st0wandgrow said:

Save your memes, and your hollier than thou rants for someone else. I'm confident that I've done more to help people out than you ever will.

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Maybe I missed something here. I thought you were an uneducted wanna be pro hockey player from Canada. What are your life's accomplishments again?

As for me, I grew up a poor kid on the streets of Detroit in the 70s/80s. I believe the facts of the matter are "I've done more to help people out than you ever will" before I had turned 20 and have a pile of metal to prove it!



You are a fucking punk!

TheMan13 said:

Maybe I missed something here. I thought you were an uneducted wanna be pro hockey player from Canada. What are your life's accomplishments again?

As for me, I grew up a poor kid on the streets of Detroit in the 70s/80s. I believe the facts of the matter are "I've done more to help people out than you ever will" before I had turned 20 and have a pile of metal to prove it!

You are a fucking punk!

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lol

And now you sit on your ass all day pontificating on a weed forum.

As you clearly know nothing about the law, Sanderson or myself; have no intent on learning nor have the mental capacity to do so. Why not do us all a favor and just get lost and take your buddies Uncle Buck and Motorbuds with you. Not one of your comments have been either relative or constructive. Can't you find somewhere else to stroke your blissful ignorance and egos? Try Facebook ...

Damn, some real holier than thou people here. To collect SSD you must go through a long process of bureaucratic bullshit and have multiple doctors state that you are unable to work. Getting approved is not easy and many qualified people get denied. Calling SSD (welfare) is a slap to those relying on it.

How can anyone bitch about this dude spending $13k on a vehicle? Does anyone know the facts? Ooo, according to "COURT RECORDS" (unbiased, I'm sure) the $13k was in evil cash. When one buys a vehicle and doesn't finance it, most people call it a cash transaction. The "cash" could have been a cashiers check, wire transfer, money order, etc. Even if it was $13k in greenbacks, I don't see a problem with it.

Does anyone know this dudes background. Could he have been disabled in an accident and received a large settlement? Could he have won the lottery in the past? Could a wealthy relative have left him some money? For all we know, he could have 5 million sitting in the bank. Having assets doesn't preclude one from collecting SSD. I know a few middle class people, not involved with cannabis, who've taken over $20k cash to private party sales (snowmobiles, cars, boas etc.), estate sales, and auctions. Anyone that has ever bought a used car knows that cash talks and usually ensures you the best possible deal. I've seen people swear that a price on an item is FIRM, and that they won't budge. When the stack of 100's come out, most sellers change their tune.

I hate to see anyone busted for cannabis and hopefully those of you who are basically saying "he deserved it" don't ever run into legal issues. From grower to patient, EVERYONE involved in cannabis is still breaking federal law. Many people think they are doing things 100% by the book but sadly find out that many leos and judges in Michigan don't own a copy of YOUR book. They don't give a damn about your book. To them, regardless of how careful you are following our fucked up law, YOU ARE A FUCKING CRIMINAL.


treetop

They drug this investigation/case on for over a year, literally sat a jury for trial and actually "held court" under the guise of two 7 year felony counts of delivering or manufacturing between 5 and 45 kilograms of marijuana against Sanderson, just to sign an undisclosed misdemeanor plea agreement with him? That's not right on so many levels ...

So now no true facts of this case on either the defendant's or state's part will ever publicly be known and there will be no public record/case law/appeals resulting by design. The "approximately 36 grams of suspected marijuana, a half-rolled joint and related paraphernalia" claimed to be found in Sanderson's garbage and used as probable cause to justify the Feb 2015 raid on this medicinal marijuana licensed family's home and resulting charges will neither be questioned or justified under the law. It's been nearly a decade now and this game is getting pretty brazenly corrupt and really old ...

#StopTheRaids

TheMan13 said:

As you clearly know nothing about the law, Sanderson or myself; have no intent on learning nor have the mental capacity to do so. Why not do us all a favor and just get lost and take your buddies Uncle Buck and Motorbuds with you. Not one of your comments have been either relative or constructive. Can't you find somewhere else to stroke your blissful ignorance and egos? Try Facebook ...

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I know you're pretty impressed with yourself ("the man" lol)but that's not how public forums work. You don't get to decide who stays and who goes. There will be people that don't share every opinion of yours.

Put on your big boy pants and deal with it.

st0wandgrow said:

I know you're pretty impressed with yourself ("the man" lol)but that's not how public forums work. You don't get to decide who stays and who goes. There will be people that don't share every opinion of yours.

Put on your big boy pants and deal with it.

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Aren't you embarrassed? Have you no shame?

People go to forums to learn about things like growing, current events and medicinal marijuana laws. If they wanted to hear whatever it is you believe you are doing here, I assume they'd look you up on Facebook to learn more about you and your world views.

I'm just suggesting that you stfu and stop disrupting us in respect to other readers/posters here.

TheMan13 said:

Aren't you embarrassed? Have you no shame?

People go to forums to learn about things like growing, current events and medicinal marijuana laws. If they wanted to hear whatever it is you believe you are doing here, I assume they'd look you up on Facebook to learn more about you and your world views.

I'm just suggesting that you stfu and stop disrupting us in respect to other readers/posters here.

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What should I feel embarrassed about. Disagreeing with "the man"?

Feel free to put me on ignore, but I will share my opinion when I feel like it.

Broke down old man talking all sorts of smack from behind his keyboard. Smh

st0wandgrow said:

What should I feel embarrassed about. Disagreeing with "the man"?

Feel free to put me on ignore, but I will share my opinion when I feel like it.

Broke down old man talking all sorts of smack from behind his keyboard. Smh

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What is it exactly you believe you are disagreeing with me about here with these rants

That Sanderson is guilty of criminally moving 200 pounds, that his home was lawfully raided and that he should serve 14 years in prison for it? No one claimed this was a warehouse grow (20 plants) and how do you know they were not donating oil to needy patients?

Why all the hate

TheMan13 said:

Maybe I missed something here. I thought you were an uneducted wanna be pro hockey player from Canada. What are your life's accomplishments again?

As for me, I grew up a poor kid on the streets of Detroit in the 70s/80s. I believe the facts of the matter are "I've done more to help people out than you ever will" before I had turned 20 and have a pile of metal to prove it!

You are a fucking punk!

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if that pic is of you, you are even more of a douchebag than i imagined. and i imagined you as a massive douche.

mistertreetop said:

How can anyone bitch about this dude spending $13k on a vehicle?

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because he claims to be so bad off that he needs welfare.

UncleBuck said:

because he claims to be so bad off that he needs welfare

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I just read the article again and see nothing about welfare. Disabled people aren't allowed to buy automobiles? How do you know that his girlfriend doesn't have a good job? How do you know that he or she didn't take out a $13k private loan to buy the Jeep? Lots of things to consider before condemning someone.


treetop

TheMan13 said:

What was the probable cause used to justify the raid of your friend's home?

Is your point that you lack empathy for any raid victim regardless if they are a "friend" or stranger

Honestly I fail to understand why you've chosen to post within this thread at all. Are you trying to troll Sanderson, me or both of us?

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Actually, I believe you may have mistakenly said "empathy" when you meant "sympathy". Empathy is to understand someone's feelings and identify with that and I do certainly have empathy. Sympathy is to feel bad for someone, and that I have very little of when they're doing something stupid. I learned to stop feeling bad for stupid people a long time ago because it doesn't do them any good.

I know we see thing in opposite ways and I'm ok with that, it takes all kinds. You're ready to lay down on your own sword for a stranger that all evidence points toward was using MMMP as cover for illegal activity. Just because he has a medical marijuana card, everything he does should be legal in your eyes. That's your perogative.

I, on the other hand, am ok with prosecuting people involved in illegal criminal activity and I don't feel bad for them. Especially when it makes ALL of the rest of us look bad for being connected through our medical right to cultivate.

So if your statement was that like sympathy for people doing stupid shit then yes I do.

UncleBuck said:

if that pic is of you, you are even more of a douchebag than i imagined. and i imagined you as a massive douche.

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LMAO wow

TheMan13 said:

What is it exactly you believe you are disagreeing with me about here with these rants

That Sanderson is guilty of criminally moving 200 pounds, that his home was lawfully raided and that he should serve 14 years in prison for it? No one claimed this was a warehouse grow (20 plants) and how do you know they were not donating oil to needy patients?

Why all the hate

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Read my very first post in this thread. I made no commentary on Mr Sanderson, and haven't once in any of my posts. I said that I agreed with your stance for the most part, but I don't view everything so black and white. Just because someone has a MMMP card, it does not automatically mean they are following the spirit of the law. If someone is growing hundreds of plants strictly for profit, and is using the card as nothing more than cover, then I don't feel sorry for that person if they get popped. You on the other hand seem to look at every case as an injustice served by crooked cops.

I find it very funny that you like to remind us all of your military service and your integrity, fighting for our freedoms, etc.... and then you proceed to attempt to silence my free speech, telling me several times to leave, and "stfu". lol

Not everyone is going to agree with you. Acting like a little child throwing a temper tantrum does nothing to change those peoples minds.