400w Querkle Grow

Ok so I recently got some Querkle seeds from The Attitude started my first "official" grow. I have a couple months experience working with some bagseed and Blue Cheese clones, but I'm mostly just fucking things up and learning.
Hopefully I've learned enough that I'll be able to keep the fucking up to a minimum this time around, haha.

Some specs for this grow:
-Growing in soil (3:1 FFOF/Perlite with 1tbsp lime/gal)
-Vegging under 4' x4 T5-HO fixture (216w total) in LED Wholesalers tent
-Flowering: 400w HPS Plantmax bulb, Lumatek ballast, 20"x22" air cooled reflector, LED Wholesalers tent

I started this grow about two weeks ago... stand by for notes and pics of what I have so far.

Ok so here’s my notes/pics so far:


9/12/11
Ordered seeds from The Attitude


9/22/11
Received Seeds.
I decided to skip the paper towel method. I feel like it overly complicates and adds unnecessary steps, especially after doing research and seeing that many people just go straight to soil with no problems.
I only planted 4 of 10 seeds this run due to MMJ plant limitations being way too low in my state and already having 6 other plants going right now.

Planted in 16oz cups that evening as follows:
1. Fill bottom 2” of cup with 4:1 FFOF/Perlite; mist soil w/ tap water
2. Fill almost to top of cup w/ 3:2 FFOF/Perlite; mist soil w/ tap
3. Drop seed in; Covered #1 & #2 with ½” 3:2. Covered #3 & #4 with ¼” 3:2. (testing which depth produces better results)
4. Mist w/ tap until 10% runoff.

(In retrospect, I ended up overcomplicating this also. Next time I plan on putting seeds straight into 3:1 FFOF/Perlite in 1 gal containers. More about that later.)

Placed cups in veg tent, uncovered, about 2 feet below the flouros. Temp/Humidity in there stays fairly consistent at around 81F, 50%RH.




9/23/11
I noticed the soil washed away and left a layer of perlite on top that is very dense, so I scraped away a bit of the perlite from the top (you’ll be able to see this in the next pic coming up).


9/25/11
#2 sprouted around noon (2.5 days)




9/26/11
#3 and 4 sprouted by noon, #1 sprouted in the evening. That’s all four within 4 days.
Moved to about 1 foot from lights.


9/27/11
First watering since planting seeds (substrate retained moisture much longer than I thought it would considering I skipped all the keeping it covered in a dark place stuff).


9/29/11
3-4 days since sprouting, seedlings are looking good:



The tap root is already coming out of the bottom of the cup on #2:



10/2/11
All seedlings are showing roots now. This is the point where I realized it would have been much easier to have just planted in 1gal containers right off the bat. So I went ahead and transplanted into 3:1 FFOF/Perlite in 1 gal containers. Used 1tbsp lime per gallon of soil. Watered with tap.
While repotting, it was very clear that #1 & 2, which were planted ½” deep are developing roots much more quickly than 3 & 4 which were planted at ¼”. Obviously further experiments would be needed to confirm these results, but in this case at this stage of development it looks like the conventional 1/4” lost to the less common ½”.
Watered new containers with plain tap until 10% runoff. Seedlings are now about 8" from lights.



Here’s #2 at 7 days since breaking soil:

clean journal! sub'd!

Thanks bro.

right on looking nice so far i got a grow going right now pick up a clone from the dispensary using that as my mother plant have 8 in flower right now.

Thank you. Yeah I prefer starting from clone but the only place with clones around here is infested with spider mites so I decided to go seed this run. Hopefully I'll get a good female for cloning.

Here are some of my plans for different aspects of this grow. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Feeding:
*Once there are 3 SETS OF TRUE LEAVES start the following nutes*
~1tbsp/gal molasses and 1 tbsp/gal 5-1-1 fish emulsion for first feeding
~Next watering, start on full strength Jack's Classic 30-10-10
~Keep on 30-10-10 until a week before flower; alternate molasses and 5-1-1 weekly
~A week before flower, Repot from 1gal to 3gal; do not feed for 1 week and then feed 1tbsp/gal molasses + 1tbsp/gal 5-1-1.
~Next watering, start on full strength Jack's Classic 20-20-20; Continue until first month of flowering is complete
~When second month starts, feed w/ 1tbsp molasses and full strength Jack's Classic 10-30-20
~Continue with 10-30-20 up to 2 weeks before harvest and then only molasses from there on out. No flushing.
*Note: Full strength of any Jack's fert is 1/4tsp per gal each watering

Topping:
~Top above 2nd node, leaving 4 sets of two branches. Using UB's method (top after 5-6 nodes have grown)
~Tops will be cloned.
~Take one clone from each bottom branch a week or so before going to flower if the original clone did not take for some reason. Considering removing bottom 2 branches completely in any event and going for 2 colas. Depends how space is looking at the time.

Repotting/Flower:
~Replant from 1gal to 3gal a week before flowering; 3gal will be final container
~If not big enough, keep vegging, but hopefully will be able to sex by then.
~Put original plants to flower as soon as possible after current Blue Cheese is done flowering (currently on day 30, so I have at least a month from now) and keep clones in veg.
~Dump males and their clones if necessary; keep best clone of each female.

Cloning:
~See topping & repotting above for how first clones will be taken from seedlings
~If I get a keeper female, I intend to keep a cycle of growing and flowering clones so that I am able to harvest two plants a month. My space limits the final height of four topped plants to about 2-3 feet tall (depending on how bushy this strain gets). I have some plans for this, but I will be better prepared to plan this out in detail once I see how well the first round of clones root and veg.

check out my thread they are about 2 ft tall that will give you an idea on the growth i have topped them and the have come out really bushy

Ok those look managable... I may be able to go almost that big as long as they don't stretch to more than twice as big in flower. I have a 3x3x6.5 flower tent so width is more a concern than height. I may only top for 2 colas to keep from bushing too much.

How long did you veg after the clone rooted?
What node did you top at?

i topped at about the 6th node and since they have been in flower they have grown about 6 inches from the time that i put them in on the 24th and started seeing hairs on the 28th

I'm in.

Glad to see you got your clear cups covered up by some black ones. Smart move.

I assume you will adapt your plan if you see something that the plants need that they aren't getting.

spankdizz said:

i topped at about the 6th node and since they have been in flower they have grown about 6 inches from the time that i put them in on the 24th and started seeing hairs on the 28th

Click to expand...

That's not too bad on the stretch for a week and a half.

bigjesse1922 said:

I'm in.

Glad to see you got your clear cups covered up by some black ones. Smart move.

I assume you will adapt your plan if you see something that the plants need that they aren't getting.

Click to expand...

Jesse, what's up man, thanks for stopping by. Yep I like to see the roots grow but the roots don't like to see the light, so we worked something out.
Definitely gonna change the plan. In fact was reading some old threads and I may be using significantly more nutes. I thought my plan was on the high end already but I had no idea the levels of Jack's Classic some people were using. We're talking 4 times the amount recommended on the container. We're also talking about the type of people who want to see a plant stay green to the end. So you know I'm on board with that.

Some updates...


10/6/11

Third node is just starting to grow. Watered with 1tbsp/gal molasses + 1tbsp/gal 5-1-1 fish emulsion.
First pic all 4 seedlings. Second pic is closeup of #2.




10/10/11

Seedlings are two weeks old today (#2 is 15 days) and looking great. All are at some stage of growing out their 4th node. Watered with 1tbsp/gal molasses + 1 tbsp/gal 5-1-1 fish emulsion again.
First pic all 4 seedlings. My wife predicts all are indica phenotypes except #3 (lower right in first pic). She called it on sexing 4 of 4 bag seed plants when I was practicing growing some seeds so we'll see if she's as good with phenotypes.
Second and third pics are closeups of #2.

I was just wondering what happened to you. Things are looking great.

subscribing to this thread for your good attention to detail and the fact that it seems like you like to do things the RIGHT way. im starting my first HPS and it looks like I can learn a lot from you, being that you're almost a month ahead of me. looking forward to seeing you girls grow

bigjesse1922 said:

I was just wondering what happened to you. Things are looking great.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Hopefully I'll have time to update my other thread soon.

400aZip said:

subscribing to this thread for your good attention to detail and the fact that it seems like you like to do things the RIGHT way. im starting my first HPS and it looks like I can learn a lot from you, being that you're almost a month ahead of me. looking forward to seeing you girls grow

Click to expand...

Thank you for kind comments. I've still got a lot to learn myself, but hopefully I've picked up enough to avoid any major problems.

Forgot to mention in the first post that my photoperiod for veg is 20/4.

Also I've been struggling with temps the last week or so and I'm around 85F during lights on. We got a new cat who likes to crawl through vent holes in tents so I have to keep the door closed all the time, which raised ambient temps in the room. I'm ordering parts so I can add an intake to pump cool (60-65F) air from the basement into the room.

One problem with keeping a detailed journal is mustering up the motivation to compile these posts.
Time to get this thing up to date.


10/14/11

Very slight signs of nute burn on 2nd node fan leaves, but otherwise looking great. Watered with plain tap water just in case.



#2 is starting to grow out it's 6th node. It's just to the point where I don't want to wait any longer to top but any earlier and it would be too small for cloning. Topped and took the cutting as a clone using the following procedure (pictures to follow):

1. Mix 3:1 and 1:3 FFOF to Perlite
2. Fill 16oz cup with 3:1, using a shot glass to leave a small space in top middle; wet the soil
3. Remove shot glass and fill hole w/ 1:3, using a pencil to leave a small hole for the cutting; wet the soil
4. Top seedling above 2nd node, making a cutting with 3 nodes and a growth tip
5. Trim off bottom node completely (will be planted in medium)
6. Trim fan leaves off 2nd node, leave growth tips
7. Trim back fan leaves on 3rd node
8. Cut stem at as sharp an angle as possible below the bottom node
9. Scrape up the stem around the bottom node
10. Dip in separate cup of clonex gel, insert in hole in medium, push medium down to close hole
11. Place clone under humidity dome

I've never cloned a seedling so the structure of the clone looks very strange to me. I've read that you can't clone this early and that you can, so we'll see. In retrospect the procedure was horribly complicated. I've been messing with different mixes of perlite and FFOF for cloning and I'm obviously getting out of hand. Next round of clones when these plants are older will just be in RRs.




10/15/11

Clone actually grew since yesterday. At first I thought it was drooping badly but then I realized the new fan leaves that are trimmed back had just grown outward. New growth tip also grew upward, adding a half inch to the height (a lot considering it was 1.5" yesterday). I've never had a clone do this, but I've only cloned from a mature blue cheese plant in the past, so I suppose it does happen with either different strains or ages of plants.



All other seedlings now have their 6th node growth coming out, so I topped and took clones from the other 3 plants. Used same procedure as above.




10/16/11

Topped plants day after (2 days for #2). Leaves now righted towards the light.



Some pics showing how the fan leaves and nodes grew out on the rest of the clones within one day, just like they did with the first clone. Compare to yesterday's pics. Clones remain under dome all day, misting regularly and not letting RH below 80-85%.




10/17/11

2nd node fan leaves (on all but #1) are continuing in their burning although the rest of the foliage on all of the plants appears to be fine. Watered with plain tap again.

Clones remain under dome all day, misting regularly and not letting RH below 80-85%.


10/19/11

Started misting clone dome less regularly (letting RH drop to 65-70%) and taking dome off completely a couple times for 30 min. Clone #3 isn't looking so great but the others look okay.


10/20/11

Burn on 2nd node's first fan leaves is pretty bad on #3. All spaces between veins have turned necrotic. All other growth looks great still (some slightly burned tips). #2 & 4 also have this to a lesser extent on the same leaves. #1 seems to handle nutes better as it is a darker color than the others and has virtually no burning.

Clearly the 5-1-1 was not as mild as I thought and was a mistake. I'm going to remove this from future grows as that was the only reason I used it. Also won't be bothering with molasses anymore. After some research I think it's more an old wives tale than proven effective supplement. Another case of overcomplicating things. It's amazing to me how often I do that. Oh well.

#1 has very tight internode spacing and is very short and compact compared to the others. #2 spacing is tight, #3 and 4 have spacing quite noticeably further apart. Second two photos below have plants in the following order: 2-3-4-1

Temps in tent have gone down about 6-7 degrees since starting this grow.
All plants are now either the same size or a bit bigger (up to 1") than when topped.

Left Clone #2 (the one taken a day earlier) outside of dome for 4 hrs at which point fan leaves began to droop a bit so I put it back in the dome. No change in procedure for other clones.




10/21/11

Watered today; plain tap for #2, 3, and 4.
#1 received .25tsp/gal Jack's 30-10-10. Others will get this as soon as there is no sign of burn on new growth.

Left Clone #2 outside the dome for 4 hrs again today. No change in procedure for the rest of the clones. Clones are looking so-so in general.

Question for anyone out there who may be reading this....

After watering yesterday, the plants wilted significantly for a few hours then perked right back up.
The time before that, they did wilt a bit, but nothing that concerned me. This time was much more noticeable.
My last grow I definitely underwatered and this grow I've been going by container weight and so have been watering much more frequently.
Is wilt after watering a sign of overwatering? I haven't had much luck finding info on why this is happening.

Yes it is. I'm sure you'll be ok! I use a little perlite beneath soil for better drainage, so think about it before you transplant!

Sub'd and in for this one!