45's tax returns

hanimmal · Oct 1, 2020

22elar said:
They weren't transparent with rates back then at the time of the great depression, that's what I was conveying. So they didn't let the market melt, they raised rates in the dark and the market responded with a depression. The mega rich of course were well aware of what was coming, the insiders anyhow; some general distrust existed as the charter for the fed would expire in a few short years. The rest, rich and poor alike were riding a wave of easy credit until the rug was pulled out so to speak.

What do you consider a small amount of inflation? For example a worker in 1950 was paid a minimum of one silver dollar per hour or $23.85. Today the min is $7.25. Is that minimal or acceptable inflation?

I consider a small amount of inflation being that a apple cost about the same percent of someone in the middle class's hourly wages as it does today. The actual value of a hour of wages for a person's labor is about the same, because as the money inflates, it changes the prices on everything.

The problem is in deflation people start to have a reason to save money more and that slows the economy. Inflation gives a reason to spend money and earn more to replace it. Overtime it is about 2-4% inflation range in the United States, which is why so many nations use us as a reserve currency.

22elar said:
Can China not impact our "elastic currency" by dumping Treasury bonds? Are those not what we sell to put currency in circulation? In fact many countries can do the same.

What do you mean by 'elastic' that is a economic term, but I am not sure if it is mangled in some Von Miss econ scam definition when combined with 'currency'.

Who would China sell them to? If they sold them to a American company for example, that company would be withdrawing the same amount of money as it took to buy it right? And the Treasury pays those bonds over a time period set years prior, up to 30 (maybe longer) for the huge dollar amount treasuries, so it is not like they can walk up to a bank window and demand cash for the treasury.

And even if we pretend that they could dump it all at once all they would be doing is weakening their return on value. They make more money holding onto that and having a strong trading partner.

Goes for all the other nations as well.

22elar said:
No worries though, theres more than one currency on our books, and like I said; the feds charter was up almost 100 years ago.

"To have succession for a period of twenty years from its organization unless it is sooner dissolved by an Act of Congress, or unless its franchise becomes forfeited by some violation of law."

Changed to:

"To have succession after the approval of this Act until dissolved by Act of Congress or until forfeiture of franchise for violation of law."

In 1927.

We have tons of different currencies in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States

Screen Shot 2020-10-01 at 8.05.17 PM.png

The Fed has been a big part of the greatest economic expansion with the fewest recessions in our nations history.

22elar · Oct 2, 2020

hanimmal said:
I consider a small amount of inflation being that a apple cost about the same percent of someone in the middle class's hourly wages as it does today. The actual value of a hour of wages for a person's labor is about the same, because as the money inflates, it changes the prices on everything.

The problem is in deflation people start to have a reason to save money more and that slows the economy. Inflation gives a reason to spend money and earn more to replace it. Overtime it is about 2-4% inflation range in the United States, which is why so many nations use us as a reserve currency.

What do you mean by 'elastic' that is a economic term, but I am not sure if it is mangled in some Von Miss econ scam definition when combined with 'currency'.

Who would China sell them to? If they sold them to a American company for example, that company would be withdrawing the same amount of money as it took to buy it right? And the Treasury pays those bonds over a time period set years prior, up to 30 (maybe longer) for the huge dollar amount treasuries, so it is not like they can walk up to a bank window and demand cash for the treasury.

And even if we pretend that they could dump it all at once all they would be doing is weakening their return on value. They make more money holding onto that and having a strong trading partner.

Goes for all the other nations as well.

We have tons of different currencies in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States
View attachment 4701220

The Fed has been a big part of the greatest economic expansion with the fewest recessions in our nations history.

None of those currencies are able to pay taxes though and therefore do not enjoy legal tender status and would not be comparable to Title 31 Notes, which are legal tender and lawful money.

Elastic Currency can be found here:
Public Law 63-43, 63d Congress, H.R. 7837

Currency that can be expanded or contracted based on "needs". What other conclusion is there to draw weather you be Austrian or Keynesian? Have you ever read the Federal Reserve Act?

And what of Ludwig Mises (assuming that's who you meant by "von Miss")? I've read a few of his books and wouldnt say they had any "scam" terms as you put it, perhaps praxeology but that was a term I enjoyed. They were well thought out and factual imo, so much so that no one can really deny that Monetary Theory, Buisness Cycle Theory and Political Economy arent actual mainstream contributions of his in modern economics.

I mean you know since you brought him up and all.

hanimmal · Oct 2, 2020

22elar said:
Currency that can be expanded or contracted based on "needs". What other conclusion is there to draw weather you be Austrian or Keynesian? Have you ever read the Federal Reserve Act?

I admit I have not read the Federal Reserve Act.

I would point out that as soon as people toss out Austrian/Keynesian it really is just nonsensical political rhetoric outside of showing how outdated the classical econ models are that ignore the long run, and especially the economic dogma of the people who pretend math doesn't matter.

PhatNuggz · Oct 3, 2020

injinji said:
So yesterday we found out the Prez paid $750 in federal taxes in both of the last two years. We also found out that he paid nothing in 10 of the 15 years before that. And he is in a fight with the IRS over a $75M refund that they are trying to get back (with interest and fines, $150M) But as so often happens, the lead was buried. The biggest news is not that he cheats on his taxes, but that he is broke and has big debts coming due real soon. He's not as rich as he pretends.

So you swallowed the hook that the lieing media put out. First it is illegal to report on taxes when not authorized, and second, the $750 was an Extension filing fee.

Unclebaldrick · Oct 3, 2020

PhatNuggz said:
So you swallowed the hook that the lieing media put out. First it is illegal to report on taxes when not authorized, and second, the $750 was an Extension filing fee.

Uh huh.

injinji · Oct 3, 2020

PhatNuggz said:
So you swallowed the hook that the lieing media put out. First it is illegal to report on taxes when not authorized, and second, the $750 was an Extension filing fee.

You know, I've never noticed a lot of retractions from the NYT.

BTW, since you seem to be privy to 45's taxes, how much did he pay over the last 18 years?

hanimmal · Oct 3, 2020

PhatNuggz said:
So you swallowed the hook that the lieing media put out. First it is illegal to report on taxes when not authorized, and second, the $750 was an Extension filing fee.

Are you a tax attorney or something? Do you have some inside information that the public is not aware of?

22elar said:
And what of Ludwig Mises (assuming that's who you meant by "von Miss")? I've read a few of his books and wouldnt say they had any "scam" terms as you put it, perhaps praxeology but that was a term I enjoyed. They were well thought out and factual imo, so much so that no one can really deny that Monetary Theory, Buisness Cycle Theory and Political Economy arent actual mainstream contributions of his in modern economics.

I mean you know since you brought him up and all.

Sorry I missed this, it got added after I posted my reply.

Before I went back to school I had a lot of my time in my job to read everything about the subject I was planning on getting an education in. My math was a joke, but I knew enough about management/sales and how new data was being used to target potential customers & identifying problems using databases (like employee theft, sales goals, customer demographics, etc), and was online a lot (forums aimed at the industry I worked in).

After I decided on going for a degree in economics, I started to read everything I could about it. It was originally how I fell into thinking the Green movement was a good idea. I read all the von miss (because it is free (which is the key to hooking people) stuff too. But once I actually got the opportunity to jump back in school full time (combination of the 7 years it took to put my wife through school and it being 2009) I wanted to knock out the math req right away (Outside of 9th grade the only other math class I had prior was as a senior in high school that had 7th graders in it, so I could graduate) and knew I needed to get calc 1 for a econ degree and calc 2 for any chance at acceptance to grad school/phd in it (later found out this was no where near enough). And by the time I made it through the summer classes I needed to get to take calc 2 in the fall, I realized math was so much more than I ever knew. Everything I had done in the decades of labor/service/sales/management I could see how to apply math throughout what I did that could have made everything so much more productive.

When I started my econ classes we learned first about the history of economics and I realized how much computers had changed economics from what the free economic scams like Von Miss was from the reality of economics. Sure it has some good definitions here and there. But it is based on outdated information and doesn't hold up in the age of information. The fact that it dismisses math means that they are missing so much with how the regression analysis has changed everything. Any macroeconomic theory WW2 to late 1970's is really just good places to find definitions and historical context of the math models used to explain the data/regression analysis, and everything pre-ww2 is mostly just micro-economic theory from my experience.

So I am not saying that these brand names didn't contribute, but the basically cults that teach the 'free' online bullshit is just a data/brainwashing scam. No real economist is talking about 'keynesian' vs 'classical' that is not trying to explain to someone brainwashed into thinking it matters anymore. The only reason to bring up Keynes is to explain that by showing the long run in his math models he improved upon the economic theory in a profound way.

Looking back knowing what I know now, I would be willing to guess the reason the right wing trolls keyed on Keynes, was it was 101-201 level college econ classes. So people who got a B in the class and never took another quantitative class again (those silly business school reqs) can pretend they know something about economics because they know the word "Keynes", but not enough to understand the flaws in reality that the Von Miss con is selling them.

22elar · Oct 3, 2020

hanimmal said:
I admit I have not read the Federal Reserve Act.

I would point out that as soon as people toss out Austrian/Keynesian it really is just nonsensical political rhetoric outside of showing how outdated the classical econ models are that ignore the long run, and especially the economic dogma of the people who pretend math doesn't matter.

So are you saying that Peter Schiff was misguided or somehow lucky in predicting the 2008 collapse using an "outdated" model?

hanimmal · Oct 3, 2020

22elar said:
So are you saying that Peter Schiff was misguided or somehow lucky in predicting the 2008 collapse using an "outdated" model?

You going to sell us gold next?

Broken clocks are right twice every day. It doesn't make them special. How many individual days do you think he bad predictions that didn't come to fruition vs the days they did? I would be willing to guess a lot.

Also it is easy to look smart when you are informed of the scam. Housing prices were way too high for years and people were being preyed upon nonstop for years leading up to his prediction (2 years before) that there would be a housing bubble that would wreck the economy (not a stretch knowing how important the housing industry is, and that predatory lending impacting ever 10% of the loans would be devastating) is not magic.

Also I would not just think that one example of someone making a prediction that came true is evidence that many other actual economists were not also very concerned. I seem to remember something about Greenspan increasing the interest rates and it almost crashing the economy at that point and he quickly dropped it back to the lower rate again. That kind of earthquake in the economy wasn't un-noticed.

Screen Shot 2020-10-03 at 10.17.51 AM.png

Him losing all his clients money vs what they would have gotten with the market shows he really is just throwing everything at the wall.

Screen Shot 2020-10-03 at 10.17.28 AM.png

Of Course he is in bed with the scam the Paul's are in on.

22elar · Oct 3, 2020

hanimmal said:
You going to sell us gold next?

Broken clocks are right twice every day. It doesn't make them special. How many individual days do you think he bad predictions that didn't come to fruition vs the days they did? I would be willing to guess a lot.

Also it is easy to look smart when you are informed of the scam. Housing prices were way too high for years and people were being preyed upon nonstop for years leading up to his prediction (2 years before) that there would be a housing bubble that would wreck the economy (not a stretch knowing how important the housing industry is, and that predatory lending impacting ever 10% of the loans would be devastating) is not magic.

Also I would not just think that one example of someone making a prediction that came true is evidence that many other actual economists were not also very concerned. I seem to remember something about Greenspan increasing the interest rates and it almost crashing the economy at that point and he quickly dropped it back to the lower rate again. That kind of earthquake in the economy wasn't un-noticed.

Hell no, I bought a metric fuck ton of gold at $30-500/oz to hedge against artificial interest rates, not for sale lol.

Right, that kind of earthquake tends to prick the bubble.

injinji · Oct 3, 2020

hanimmal said:
. . . . . . . . . . . .Before I went back to school I had a lot of my time in my job to read everything about the subject I was planning on getting an education in. My math was a joke. . . . . . . .

I've always been 180 degrees from you. Math always does what it's supposed to. You can't say that about much else in the world.

hanimmal · Oct 3, 2020

22elar said:
Hell no, I bought a metric fuck ton of gold at $30-500/oz to hedge against artificial interest rates, not for sale lol.

Right, that kind of earthquake tends to prick the bubble.

Right, it doesn't make that guy a genius because he was saying a recession was going to happen. It was inevitable after at the time, what, 30? years of banking deregulation? It lines up with what the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda has been con'ing American males who descended from land owners into thinking.

At least since they had to relinquish total control over every aspect of our society and has slowly gotten to the point that one party is trying to legislate to the needs of 100% of our population (which we need to be as successful as possible) and started their 50+ year troll with their southern strategy. The Democrats need to get about 3 wins in a row I figure for our country to force the Republican politicians to abandon their con fully and shake loose of the evangelical/racist elements and start to try to make our country better for everyone.

injinji said:
I've always been 180 degrees from you. Math always does what it's supposed to. You can't say that about much else in the world.

It was so humbling lol. I was used to bullshit my way out of anything, it took math for me to realize how full of shit I was. You can't fake the answer, you have to put in the work to understand how to actually do the steps necessary to get to the correct answer. And that it was more like a sport (which is also very humbling) that you have to practice over and over again to learn the steps necessary to drill in the basics before everything starts to feel natural enough that you no longer think of the mechanics and then you can open up your mind to how it applies in the world.

By the time I got to Calc 3 in the end of my 2nd year I realized I wanted to know more about the statistics and computer aspects and ended up with a BS in Actuarial math and a Masters in Applied Econ in 4 years, and got into a PhD in Statistics and Probability, but left to grow weed after 2 years into the program. That was 2014. Little did I know.

22elar · Oct 3, 2020

hanimmal said:
Right, it doesn't make that guy a genius because he was saying a recession was going to happen. It was inevitable after at the time, what, 30? years of banking deregulation? It lines up with what the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda has been con'ing American males who descended from land owners into thinking.

At least since they had to relinquish total control over every aspect of our society and has slowly gotten to the point that one party is trying to legislate to the needs of 100% of our population (which we need to be as successful as possible) and started their 50+ year troll with their southern strategy. The Democrats need to get about 3 wins in a row I figure for our country to force the Republican politicians to abandon their con fully and shake loose of the evangelical/racist elements and start to try to make our country better for everyone.

It was so humbling lol. I was used to bullshit my way out of anything, it took math for me to realize how full of shit I was. You can't fake the answer, you have to put in the work to understand how to actually do the steps necessary to get to the correct answer. And that it was more like a sport (which is also very humbling) that you have to practice over and over again to learn the steps necessary to drill in the basics before everything starts to feel natural enough that you no longer think of the mechanics and then you can open up your mind to how it applies in the world.

By the time I got to Calc 3 in the end of my 2nd year I realized I wanted to know more about the statistics and computer aspects and ended up with a BS in Actuarial math and a Masters in Applied Econ in 4 years, and got into a PhD in Statistics and Probability, but left to grow weed after 2 years into the program. That was 2014. Little did I know.

Exactly. But I would add that it wasnt that he simply predicted the crash, he predicted why it would crash. I'm happy to leave it there if you wish.

22elar · Oct 3, 2020

hanimmal said:
Are you a tax attorney or something? Do you have some inside information that the public is not aware of?

Sorry I missed this, it got added after I posted my reply.

Before I went back to school I had a lot of my time in my job to read everything about the subject I was planning on getting an education in. My math was a joke, but I knew enough about management/sales and how new data was being used to target potential customers & identifying problems using databases (like employee theft, sales goals, customer demographics, etc), and was online a lot (forums aimed at the industry I worked in).

After I decided on going for a degree in economics, I started to read everything I could about it. It was originally how I fell into thinking the Green movement was a good idea. I read all the von miss (because it is free (which is the key to hooking people) stuff too. But once I actually got the opportunity to jump back in school full time (combination of the 7 years it took to put my wife through school and it being 2009) I wanted to knock out the math req right away (Outside of 9th grade the only other math class I had prior was as a senior in high school that had 7th graders in it, so I could graduate) and knew I needed to get calc 1 for a econ degree and calc 2 for any chance at acceptance to grad school/phd in it (later found out this was no where near enough). And by the time I made it through the summer classes I needed to get to take calc 2 in the fall, I realized math was so much more than I ever knew. Everything I had done in the decades of labor/service/sales/management I could see how to apply math throughout what I did that could have made everything so much more productive.

When I started my econ classes we learned first about the history of economics and I realized how much computers had changed economics from what the free economic scams like Von Miss was from the reality of economics. Sure it has some good definitions here and there. But it is based on outdated information and doesn't hold up in the age of information. The fact that it dismisses math means that they are missing so much with how the regression analysis has changed everything. Any macroeconomic theory WW2 to late 1970's is really just good places to find definitions and historical context of the math models used to explain the data/regression analysis, and everything pre-ww2 is mostly just micro-economic theory from my experience.

So I am not saying that these brand names didn't contribute, but the basically cults that teach the 'free' online bullshit is just a data/brainwashing scam. No real economist is talking about 'keynesian' vs 'classical' that is not trying to explain to someone brainwashed into thinking it matters anymore. The only reason to bring up Keynes is to explain that by showing the long run in his math models he improved upon the economic theory in a profound way.

Looking back knowing what I know now, I would be willing to guess the reason the right wing trolls keyed on Keynes, was it was 101-201 level college econ classes. So people who got a B in the class and never took another quantitative class again (those silly business school reqs) can pretend they know something about economics because they know the word "Keynes", but not enough to understand the flaws in reality that the Von Miss con is selling them.

True or false: the federal reserve note became the world reserve currency because the dollar was as good as gold.

hanimmal · Oct 3, 2020

22elar said:
Exactly. But I would add that it wasnt that he simply predicted the crash, he predicted why it would crash. I'm happy to leave it there if you wish.

I don't mind talking about this stuff.

The problem with con artists (like Trump has shown over and over again) is that they throw everything at the wall. I updated the above post which shows how he lost about 40% of return that people earned vs if they just stuck with the banks that were holding their money when the crash occurred. I am sure he made out like a bandit from the pushing of his infamy online.

Just because someone used the online world to make themselves famous for their con, doesn't mean they actually deserve to be trusted as credible.

22elar said:
True or false: the federal reserve note became the world reserve currency because the dollar was as good as gold.

True.

And they stuck with it because they realized that by having a stable target (2-4% inflation a year) that it was still worthy of being their reserve currency. The federal reserve banking system is the only reason our economy (and the worlds) is still upright. The Republicans need to do their part, and the word will have future inflation to deal with as they absorb the impact of the money America is going to spend to restart this economy.

The Republicans are going to try to do exactly what they did with Obama, dump a shit economy on the incoming Democratic POTUS and cry deficit to try to win back either the house or the senate and state seats in 2022. It's their MO since the 70's. Biden needs to win the senate and house again in 2022 (assuming he does it in 2020) and then in 2024 the Democrats need to drop the hammer one more term before I would be comfortable seeing Republicans with any kind of power outside of their vote in DC.

That is why it is nice that it is Biden, people can trust him to not be anything other than a responsible, caring American politician with a long time record of not being a criminal nor a Russian puppet.

PhatNuggz · Oct 4, 2020

injinji said:
You know, I've never noticed a lot of retractions from the NYT.

BTW, since you seem to be privy to 45's taxes, how much did he pay over the last 18 years?

I am not privy to anyone's taxes except my own, and neither would anyone besides the person who filed be, and/or their tax filers, who have NDAs, FYI: anyone who acquired them and released them will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (AND WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BY NOW, SO...) I have filed extensions in the past, and the amount is in keeping with the $750, which BTW, DJT did clarify live at one of his conferences. But let's not let the facts get in the way of the liberal medias hatred and willingness to spread lies. See the FISA Report and the FBIs (Comey, Muller, Wrays...) willingness to cover up the truth, which fortunately for ALL americans is being exposed

I recommend watching Lou Dobbs, and following John Sullivan and Sydney Powell (Gen Flynns lawyer), to learn how bad the coverups and hatred really is

hanimmal · Oct 4, 2020

PhatNuggz said:
I am not privy to anyone's taxes except my own, and neither would anyone besides the person who filed be, and/or their tax filers, who have NDAs, FYI: anyone who acquired them and released them will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (AND WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED BY NOW, SO...) I have filed extensions in the past, and the amount is in keeping with the $750, which BTW, DJT did clarify live at one of his conferences. But let's not let the facts get in the way of the liberal medias hatred and willingness to spread lies. See the FISA Report and the FBIs (Comey, Muller, Wrays...) willingness to cover up the truth, which fortunately for ALL americans is being exposed

I recommend watching Lou Dobbs, and following John Sullivan and Sydney Powell (Gen Flynns lawyer), to learn how bad the coverups and hatred really is

What do you mean by 'media' in 'liberal media'?

And Trump's whole FISA bullshit is a scam. The mistakes mysteriously started piling up after Comey was fired by Trump because of the whole 'Russia thing'.

MickFoster · Oct 4, 2020

Another deplorable chimes in.

PhatNuggz · Oct 4, 2020

hanimmal said:
What do you mean by 'media' in 'liberal media'?

And Trump's whole FISA bullshit is a scam. The mistakes mysteriously started piling up after Comey was fired by Trump because of the whole 'Russia thing'.

NEWSPAPERS, MAGAZINES, AND 99% OF THE MEDIA DRIVEN TELEVISION CHANNELS, WHICH IS THEN REGURGITATED BY LOCAL NEWS CHANNELS

MickFoster · Oct 4, 2020

Magat.

45's tax returns

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