A Pro Obama thread

[TheBrutalTruth]

I'm not blind, I realize that without some changes it cannot survive. The problem arrived with the longevity of seniors and the withering of the work force, yes I concede that. There should be a way to make it work. Here's one Idea: remove the cap on income deductions, that would cover the plan just fine for a hundred years. Now tell me, when it comes your turn, I suppose that being such an altruistic person and not really needing it because you've been soooo successful, you'll be sending your SS back.

Removing the cap isn't going to solve the problem, the math has been looked at there.

The entire system should just be done away with. People are intelligent enough to realize on their own that they need to save up for retirement, and while it can be argued that those at the lower levels of the economic ladder actually benefit from it, that is only true when one ignores the fact that it is entirely possible that they would use the extra money that they would receive to better themselves through knowledge, or through entrepreneurship.

As far as me being sooo successful and willing to send it back. If I reach the point where I don't need it, yeah, I'll be more than willing to tell the government to take the SS Check and shove it, because I don't need it, but odds are that it wont even be viable when I get to that point in 40+ years, assuming they don't jack up the retirement age to 75, and jack up the payroll tax rates even higher.

The entire plan was an epic failure from the get go. The first beneficiary contributed all of 5¢ and got 21¢ in a lumpsum payment.

Though I don't even care what they do with SS, I'd be perfectly content if they just allowed people to opt out, and accept personal responsibility for themselves. People should not be obligated to contribute to Social Security if they don't want to. Of course, it is likely that a lot of people would still contribute, merely to avoid having to accept personal responsibility for their retirement, or because they don't want to have to deal with the added stress, or because they believe that they are not knowledgeable enough to invest (which is a myth perpetuated by stockbrokers and Wall Street.)

Of course, it is quite possible that those that leave would be mostly concentrated in the middle and upper middle class, and thus the entire scheme would fall apart that much faster, but seeing as how it is untenable to begin with, that should not be that much of a surprise.


But assuming that the government wont allow an opt out, perhaps they could allow for exemptions for education from payroll taxes, like the do for income taxes, as having a better educated workforce would lead to better paying positions. Of course, they would likely have to put a limit to that option at some amount of earnings.

Or even privatize it gradually so that those that already contributed do not get screwed out of their contribution. Quickly privatizing it is not a viable option, or quickly converting it to private savings accounts is not a viable option. Any change would have to be gradual to ensure that those that have already contributed are not deprived of their benefits.

Failing a gradual change the next option, and least attractive of the three is floating bonds for the trillions that are needed to pay out the benefits in a lump sum and close Social Security at once. They don't even necessarily have to bother with the Disability and Medicare components of it so that people that need medical care in their old age can still get it, and people that are disabled can still be taken care of.

 

[ChChoda]

Who cares what Color Obama is?

White, Orange, Puke Green, He'd still be a dumb ass.

Although, we shouldn't overlook the fact that orange or puke green would be historic events, too. Mr. Potato Head as prez with Gumby as veep comes to mind...now that would be change I could laugh at, too.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Although, we shouldn't overlook the fact that orange or puke green would be historic events, too. Mr. Potato Head as prez with Gumby as veep comes to mind...now that would be change I could laugh at, too.

Lol, yeah.

 

[jgrows4u]

obama dosnt know what the hells hes doing he made all these promises and now what happened to them? idk either. And what the hell is he thinking about the whole bailout thing how can giving money away make money? idk either.

 

[medicineman]

Removing the cap isn't going to solve the problem, the math has been looked at there.

The entire system should just be done away with. People are intelligent enough to realize on their own that they need to save up for retirement, and while it can be argued that those at the lower levels of the economic ladder actually benefit from it, that is only true when one ignores the fact that it is entirely possible that they would use the extra money that they would receive to better themselves through knowledge, or through entrepreneurship.

As far as me being sooo successful and willing to send it back. If I reach the point where I don't need it, yeah, I'll be more than willing to tell the government to take the SS Check and shove it, because I don't need it, but odds are that it wont even be viable when I get to that point in 40+ years, assuming they don't jack up the retirement age to 75, and jack up the payroll tax rates even higher.

The entire plan was an epic failure from the get go. The first beneficiary contributed all of 5¢ and got 21¢ in a lumpsum payment.

Though I don't even care what they do with SS, I'd be perfectly content if they just allowed people to opt out, and accept personal responsibility for themselves. People should not be obligated to contribute to Social Security if they don't want to. Of course, it is likely that a lot of people would still contribute, merely to avoid having to accept personal responsibility for their retirement, or because they don't want to have to deal with the added stress, or because they believe that they are not knowledgeable enough to invest (which is a myth perpetuated by stockbrokers and Wall Street.)

Of course, it is quite possible that those that leave would be mostly concentrated in the middle and upper middle class, and thus the entire scheme would fall apart that much faster, but seeing as how it is untenable to begin with, that should not be that much of a surprise.


But assuming that the government wont allow an opt out, perhaps they could allow for exemptions for education from payroll taxes, like the do for income taxes, as having a better educated workforce would lead to better paying positions. Of course, they would likely have to put a limit to that option at some amount of earnings.

Or even privatize it gradually so that those that already contributed do not get screwed out of their contribution. Quickly privatizing it is not a viable option, or quickly converting it to private savings accounts is not a viable option. Any change would have to be gradual to ensure that those that have already contributed are not deprived of their benefits.

Failing a gradual change the next option, and least attractive of the three is floating bonds for the trillions that are needed to pay out the benefits in a lump sum and close Social Security at once. They don't even necessarily have to bother with the Disability and Medicare components of it so that people that need medical care in their old age can still get it, and people that are disabled can still be taken care of.

I'm not buying into the premis that everyone would plan for retirement. If you make less than shit wages, how can you ever plan for retirement. There has to be shit wage jobs to allow the chosen few to have all the great jobs that would not need a government subsidised retirement. There is not and never have been enough decent paying jobs so that everyone could plan for retirement, the capitalist system does not allow for that. The social programs that exist today have been implemented as safety nets to catch all the people that never got one of those few decent jobs. The Brutal Truth is: there are not enough decent jobs to go around.

 

[Microdizzey]

Hey peoples. Nothing but bad news about this long-legged mackdaddy. Let's have a laugh.

Don't tell Michelle.

 

[KaleoXxX]

wow tht gave me the chuckle i needed to make it through the night. not only is our president a family man but hes a playa who likes bootys. that first girl looked pretty nice, def worth a look back, idk about Hilary or that other bitch tho

 

[Microdizzey]

wow tht gave me the chuckle i needed to make it through the night. not only is our president a family man but hes a playa who likes bootys. that first girl looked pretty nice, def worth a look back, idk about Hilary or that other bitch tho

Yeah I don't think he's really checkin' out Hilary/Sotomayor. NASTY BITCHES!

But that chick in the red. Hell yeah he was checkin' that shit out! Sarkozy knows it.

 

[KaleoXxX]

i think he was checkin em out, just look hes lookin down, and he likes what he sees. his boy Sarkozy is checkin out the same shit

 

[Astaldoath]

Well i dunno spending more than our nations GDP since hes been in office isnt a good sign at all...

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

I'm not buying into the premis that everyone would plan for retirement. If you make less than shit wages, how can you ever plan for retirement. There has to be shit wage jobs to allow the chosen few to have all the great jobs that would not need a government subsidised retirement. There is not and never have been enough decent paying jobs so that everyone could plan for retirement, the capitalist system does not allow for that. The social programs that exist today have been implemented as safety nets to catch all the people that never got one of those few decent jobs. The Brutal Truth is: there are not enough decent jobs to go around.

There's plenty of decent jobs, of course, there may not be enough for everyone, but eventually people are going to retire.

If people act in an irresponsible manner then should they not bear the price of their irresponsibility?

About the most the government should do is perhaps ensure that it is possible for everyone that wants one to get a higher education, preferably with out letting the unions near the colleges. Beyond that, people need to take personal responsibility for their own failures instead of forcing everyone else to suffer for their stupidity.

 

[TheDemocrat]

This is the problem. Republicans like Zach Wamp(R-TN) believe healthcare is a privilege and not a right. He also believes that half of the uninsured choose to be uninsured.
http://www.youtube.com/[youtube]GZ6ssMRNvqA[/youtube]

 

[GanjaAL]

Though it does suck not having insurance... tell me where it is a right.

How about you go out and bust your ass all day and then give me half of what you make... then I can get some insurance.

I hate hand out and I sure the fuck hate socialized medicine.... that is why most countries that have it have people come to the USA for private medical care.

If we quit paying it for illegal's and illegal criminals we could afford subsidized medical care.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

This is the problem. Republicans like Zach Wamp(R-TN) believe healthcare is a privilege and not a right. He also believes that half of the uninsured choose to be uninsured.
http://www.youtube.com/[youtube]GZ6ssMRNvqA[/youtube]

It is a privilege, and not a right.

Your argument that it is a right fails, because the only way to guarantee to all is to violate the real rights of the people you are going to steal from to provide it to those that are stupid, lazy, or incompetent.

Arguments about healthcare are largely the dumbest arguments in politics, as the number of people that are not covered by insurance is not really that important, unless you're a thieving Democrat that is in bed with the Big Insurance Companies, and plan on allowing them to monopolize the market through threat of force, fraud and deceit.

But the usage of force, fraud and deceit are the hallmarks of Democrats and their totalitarian ideals.

 

[TheDemocrat]

Be c areful, I saw karma peeking around the corner.

 

[ChChoda]

Be c areful, I saw karma peeking around the corner.

Repent or yea shall die?

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Be c areful, I saw karma peeking around the corner.

Karma for telling people to accept responsibility for their own stupidity?

I'll welcome it, I have nothing to fear from Karma, unlike some I don't spit out mindless drivel and even more imbecilic rhetoric that demonstates a child like belief in the Democrats that rivals the belief of actual children in Santa Claus.

Oh, by the way, you are aware that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy aren't real, right?

Aside from the fact that wherever Socialism has been tried (regardless of how little was adopted) that it has failed?

2,000+ years of attempts to get it to work, and it has failed everytime it has been tried.

Athens, Rome, USSR, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, China, Cambodia. One would be tempted to add North Korea and Cuba onto the list of failures, but it's kind of hard for a dictatorship to actual achieve the reforms necessary to do away with the dead ideology of their tyrants.

Though, as we are on the topic of the Worship of Death, err, Socialism what about the 100 Million plus deaths it is responsible for?

More if you include the wars that the states that pursued Socialist Agendas undertook. How many millions died as a result of the greed of North Korea, China, and Imperial Rome?

Socialism's best description is a pseudo-religion centered upon the mass genocide of humanity.

 

[jrh72582]

Karma for telling people to accept responsibility for their own stupidity?

I'll welcome it, I have nothing to fear from Karma, unlike some I don't spit out mindless drivel and even more imbecilic rhetoric that demonstates a child like belief in the Democrats that rivals the belief of actual children in Santa Claus.

Oh, by the way, you are aware that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy aren't real, right?

Aside from the fact that wherever Socialism has been tried (regardless of how little was adopted) that it has failed?

2,000+ years of attempts to get it to work, and it has failed everytime it has been tried.

Athens, Rome, USSR, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, China, Cambodia. One would be tempted to add North Korea and Cuba onto the list of failures, but it's kind of hard for a dictatorship to actual achieve the reforms necessary to do away with the dead ideology of their tyrants.

Though, as we are on the topic of the Worship of Death, err, Socialism what about the 100 Million plus deaths it is responsible for?

More if you include the wars that the states that pursued Socialist Agendas undertook. How many millions died as a result of the greed of North Korea, China, and Imperial Rome?

Socialism's best description is a pseudo-religion centered upon the mass genocide of humanity.

Athens was a democracy centered around the idea of a polis, which is much different than anything resembling socialism.

Rome was never socialist in any manifestation of the word. Kings, Republic, then Empire.

And there are socialist governments that have succeeded (depending on your definition of the word). Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, France, etc.....

 

[medicineman]

There's plenty of decent jobs, of course, there may not be enough for everyone, but eventually people are going to retire.

If people act in an irresponsible manner then should they not bear the price of their irresponsibility?

About the most the government should do is perhaps ensure that it is possible for everyone that wants one to get a higher education, preferably with out letting the unions near the colleges. Beyond that, people need to take personal responsibility for their own failures instead of forcing everyone else to suffer for their stupidity.

You sure throw the stupidity term around loosely, and about personal responsibility, it boils down to this: It's hard to remember that you only came here to drain the swamps when you are surrounded by alligators. Try and take a minute or two and put yourself in someone elses shoes, I know, I Know, that is extremely hard for someone like you to do, But if you want to know answers to things you do not obviously understand, you have to start somewhere. Cliches and prejudices are hard to overcome, but if you are as intelligent as you purport to be, take a few minutes and just imagine the difficulties of some of the less endowed on this planet. Then you may imagine there has to be some leveling of the playing field, JMHO.

 

[Operation 420]

Athens was a democracy centered around the idea of a polis, which is much different than anything resembling socialism.

Rome was never socialist in any manifestation of the word. Kings, Republic, then Empire.

And there are socialist governments that have succeeded (depending on your definition of the word). Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, France, etc.....

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2008/gb2008109_947306.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis