A question for Electricians or people in the know

sippinslurpies

Active Member
Hey.. hopefully there's someone in the know here... Ive just bought a new house and my new shed only has one dual outlet power socket and I am wanting to know how I can add another one or two so I can run more lights/pumps in the future. I ideally wanna get things sorted before I get all my new gear in a few weeks. Is it just a matter of adding another socket in the same line or do I need to run addition wires from my meter box?
 

Hemlock

Well-Known Member
so the outlet you have the wires will go back to your fuse/breaker box. should be like a 15-20 amp circuit. So yes you can add outlets but you can't go over 15/20 amps.
Now if you add another breaker you can add more outlets.

example if you have a 20 amp breaker
1 600 HPS light 9 amps
1 inline fane 5 amps
1 floor fans 5
thats 19 total amps you cannot but anything else on it or you will overload the breaker and it will flip off.
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
yah thats what i am worried about... ive always had about 4 outlets in a shed so ones not gonna cut it
An old man's guess here. Your outlet is for lights, added by the previous owner, who had zero intention of growing or working in the shed. You are going to have to add breakers in your main panel would be a good guess. Additionally what gauge wire is in the run to the shed? Made of copper or aluminum? If the wire was sized just with lights in mind it might be an overload situation even using 2 devices max.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Is here any way of telling how many amps the wire's going to the shed are rated at or even the fuse in the meter box?
First,you need to find out which breaker or fuse controls the shed outlet and what else is on that circuit along with what size breaker/fuse it is. The wire in the shed is stamped with a size on the outside cover,12/2 is 20 amp and 14/2 is 15 amp. You need to know if there is anything else on that circuit and how much power it needs and the size of the wire and breaker/fuse, then know how much power you need for your equipment.
 

ScoobyDoobyDoo

Well-Known Member
#12, 12 aug, or 12/2 are all rated for 30 amps. #14 is rated for 25. usually these are the 2 most common wires used in houses. chances are that the power in the shed is for the overhead light and the outlet. plug something into the outlet and turn on the light. then switch breakers until you find the one that shuts off the shed. then, with the breaker in the off position check other outlets and lights in the area. might be that the shed is tied into the circuit as some outdoor lights or a pond pump or outlets in the garage.

sounds like you plan on growing there for a while. best bet is to get an electrician out to the house and have him install a 40amp subpanel. it would actually only cost you around $300 and you'd be setup for anything you would need in the future. a subpanel is rated for 240v. so if you have 40amps at 240v you have 80amps at 120v available to you. that's more than enough to run a 4 1000w in flower, 1500w in veg, and everything else you'll need. it is always recommended that you never use more than 75-80% of the rated amps for a breaker. so, in a 80amp shed you could hook up 64amps worth of equipment.

lights will most likely be the largest electrical item in your room. then you have any a/c units and dehumidifiers. inline fans don't draw much; it's really more like 2amps for a high output 8" fan and 1amp for a high output 6" fan. 1000w lights use about 9.5amps, 600w lights about 5.5amps, and 400w lights about 3.5amps. a/c units can pull up to 10amps for bigger units. will all depends on your environment, how many lights you are using and if you air cool your lights. the rest of the stuff will be minor; wall mount fans, pumps (for hydro), meters and controllers, etc...

since you already have power in the shed it will be easy for the electrician to use that existing wire to pull in some heavier cable for your subpanel. then he'll just swap out the breaker on the panel for a 240v and setup the panel in the shed. from the panel in the shed you just tell him how many outlets you want and where. use 30amp 120v breakers and 12 gauge wire for your outlets. figure out where your ballasts are going to be and how many you will have. you can put 2 ballasts on one outlet as long as they are less than 80% of that breakers rating. meaning, don't put 2 1000w ballasts on a 20amp breaker. if you are going to be running more than 2 lights then get yourself a light controller if you want. it works just like an outlet or subpanel just for your lights. you hook it up to a 240v breaker on your subpanel and plug all of your ballasts into it. then you only have to blug that 1 box into a timer. if you have lights in veg and lights in flower and you want them on the same box you just get a controller that has dual trigger cords. then you have 1 outlet for your ac and/or dehumidifier. if you have a minisplit ac then that will go on a circuit by itself. then you have a 30amp 120v breaker for the rest of the outlets in the shed. you won't need more then that. and it leaves you plenty of room incase you have to plug some other equipment in lke a vacuum or something. you can even split the rest of the outlets between 2 30amp breakers.

good luck bro. let me know if you need anything.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
#12, 12 aug, or 12/2 are all rated for 30 amps. #14 is rated for 25. usually these are the 2 most common wires used in houses. chances are that the power in the shed is for the overhead light and the outlet. plug something into the outlet and turn on the light. then switch breakers until you find the one that shuts off the shed. then, with the breaker in the off position check other outlets and lights in the area. might be that the shed is tied into the circuit as some outdoor lights or a pond pump or outlets in the garage.

sounds like you plan on growing there for a while. best bet is to get an electrician out to the house and have him install a 40amp subpanel. it would actually only cost you around $300 and you'd be setup for anything you would need in the future. a subpanel is rated for 240v. so if you have 40amps at 240v you have 80amps at 120v available to you. that's more than enough to run a 4 1000w in flower, 1500w in veg, and everything else you'll need. it is always recommended that you never use more than 75-80% of the rated amps for a breaker. so, in a 80amp shed you could hook up 64amps worth of equipment.

lights will most likely be the largest electrical item in your room. then you have any a/c units and dehumidifiers. inline fans don't draw much; it's really more like 2amps for a high output 8" fan and 1amp for a high output 6" fan. 1000w lights use about 9.5amps, 600w lights about 5.5amps, and 400w lights about 3.5amps. a/c units can pull up to 10amps for bigger units. will all depends on your environment, how many lights you are using and if you air cool your lights. the rest of the stuff will be minor; wall mount fans, pumps (for hydro), meters and controllers, etc...

since you already have power in the shed it will be easy for the electrician to use that existing wire to pull in some heavier cable for your subpanel. then he'll just swap out the breaker on the panel for a 240v and setup the panel in the shed. from the panel in the shed you just tell him how many outlets you want and where. use 30amp 120v breakers and 12 gauge wire for your outlets. figure out where your ballasts are going to be and how many you will have. you can put 2 ballasts on one outlet as long as they are less than 80% of that breakers rating. meaning, don't put 2 1000w ballasts on a 20amp breaker. if you are going to be running more than 2 lights then get yourself a light controller if you want. it works just like an outlet or subpanel just for your lights. you hook it up to a 240v breaker on your subpanel and plug all of your ballasts into it. then you only have to blug that 1 box into a timer. if you have lights in veg and lights in flower and you want them on the same box you just get a controller that has dual trigger cords. then you have 1 outlet for your ac and/or dehumidifier. if you have a minisplit ac then that will go on a circuit by itself. then you have a 30amp 120v breaker for the rest of the outlets in the shed. you won't need more then that. and it leaves you plenty of room incase you have to plug some other equipment in lke a vacuum or something. you can even split the rest of the outlets between 2 30amp breakers.

good luck bro. let me know if you need anything.
Not sure about your info,I've been in residential building trades for over 30 years. In my state and a couple others that I've worked in, the residential building code is 14g is 15 amp, 12g is 20 amp and 10g is 30amp.
 

ScoobyDoobyDoo

Well-Known Member
Not sure about your info,I've been in residential building trades for over 30 years. In my state and a couple others that I've worked in, the residential building code is 14g is 15 amp, 12g is 20 amp and 10g is 30amp.
google "wire ampacity chart" and you will see. what you are looking for is 90 degree copper THHN. that is what is used in building wire. i deal with residential and commercial electrical supplies. the code may be that in your state but i can't comment cause i don't know. in every state i've ever owned property or done a spec house in it's rated 25, 30, 40 for those gauges. even in all of central america. most of the major manufacturers of cable even put their rated ampacity on the wire/cable jacket now.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
google "wire ampacity chart" and you will see. what you are looking for is 90 degree copper THHN. that is what is used in building wire. i deal with residential and commercial electrical supplies. the code may be that in your state but i can't comment cause i don't know. in every state i've ever owned property or done a spec house in it's rated 25, 30, 40 for those gauges. even in all of central america. most of the major manufacturers of cable even put their rated ampacity on the wire/cable jacket now.
I've seen the charts before,what it's industry rating and what the building code is can be 2 different things. All I'm trying to say is he should check his local code.
 

ScoobyDoobyDoo

Well-Known Member
I've seen the charts before,what it's industry rating and what the building code is can be 2 different things. All I'm trying to say is he should check his local code.
i hear ya, that's why i said i can't comment on local codes. i'm just guessing that he's not applying for a permit on this shed "remodel" so i assume he really doesn't care about "code." i recommended he stay under 80% of the rated load and used the tested rating on the wires i recommended. no real need to spend xtra money when you don't need to. if the wire is test rated at 30amp and has been for the last 20 years i think that's good enough for a circuit that at max load will only have 20amps on it.

i understand what you are saying bro. i'm just giving him an opinion i think is intelligent and reasonable.

keep em' frosty!
 

OLD DUDE

Active Member
I vote for putting in the 40 amp sup panel and new wiring to the main breaker box in the house! You never know who put in the current line and outlets or the quality of the workmanship! It would suck if you got things all set up and had a problem!!
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
i hear ya, that's why i said i can't comment on local codes. i'm just guessing that he's not applying for a permit on this shed "remodel" so i assume he really doesn't care about "code." i recommended he stay under 80% of the rated load and used the tested rating on the wires i recommended. no real need to spend xtra money when you don't need to. if the wire is test rated at 30amp and has been for the last 20 years i think that's good enough for a circuit that at max load will only have 20amps on it.

i understand what you are saying bro. i'm just giving him an opinion i think is intelligent and reasonable.

keep em' frosty!
Sound advice,I've always followed one rule when doing work even when no permit or inspection is being done.Build it to code and your covered if you ever need a inspection,you usually don't save much by cutting corners. I think a lot of building codes can depend on the income level in the area,the more money the stricter the codes.
 

ScoobyDoobyDoo

Well-Known Member
i've honestly never seen a place that 15amps was code for 12g. even in manhattan. maybe they are taking into account the 80% rule. who knows.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Got quoted $400 for 40amp wire, circuit breaker an installation... does this sound about right?
Doesn't sound that bad but it depends on how far from the main panel to the new panel is in the shed and how the service cable is run (overhead,underground,in conduit)? Remember that electricians are skilled trades and don't work for cheap.
 
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