A whole lot of Hempy and a whole lot of watts

looks interesting im not a fan on the style of grow either, but everyone has theyre own way to grow cant wait to see how it turns out GL

Actual vertical growing makes the best use of the energy coming off the bulb. If you own a light meter, you will quickly find that virtually no light energy comes of the tip and none comes from the base. Which is why huge long hoods make no sense at all. All the light comes from the arc tube.

Just stay tuned, you will see big dense buds on the whole plant, not just the tops.

legallyflying said:

Actual vertical growing makes the best use of the energy coming off the bulb. [....] Which is why huge long hoods make no sense at all.

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I'm sorry to see such a knowledgeable grower apply a forum gimmick to such a large room already, but if you are going to put it like that, for the noobs to parrot, I'm putting down my stick with sugar. You clearly 'decided' already, let's see if I can safe a few others from making the same mistake:

The statements in the quote above are false. ( I refute the central point inside joke for some...) You mentioned light meter, yet if you had and used one you'd be the one quickly finding out what a massive waste of light you got going on there. Besides that I have seen many tests of people trying to make the most out of their space, from manufacturers and others who go a little further than measuring a few random points in a grow room, everybody, well most people anyway, has two light meters in their head. It's not about light coming from the tip or base, it's about where the light from the tube is going to. The light coming from the tube is apart from the tip and base omnidirectional. Anyone looking at a horizontal HPS bulb from the tip or base side will still get blinded. I know... I'm looking right at it every time I open my flower closet.

Stripping a reflector hood from a bulb does not result in efficient energy unless you doing something crazy like Alaric's aero tunnel and try to shape the canopy around the lamps... Removing a hood merely kills the advantage of being able to bundle and direct the light into a uniform pattern. The difference between a good hood and cheap one (like you are using on some) is easily 10% in yield already. Only a proper hood can create a uniform light pattern, which is what it's all about, spread the lumen you got uniformly.

NL is the second(sometimes third because of them French) largest agricultural exporter next to the US. Our country is however only about 140x200 miles and a good part of that is water... So how the hell is that possible... well, an area sometimes called 'glass city' that uses a mind-boggling amount of power. I.o.w. a HUGE amount of $$$ industry in which several advanced agricultural lighting manufactures compete. Anyone in Europe can tell you the Dutch are the most frugal people on the planet. Guess how many vert grows there are here...

If you'd get 18 Gavita Pro sets (for example, the one with double ended tubes...) with dim and boost features and ask them for some advice you'd get some real solid pro info and no forum gimmicks and can save 20-30% electricity. The Gavita Pro 1k watt we refer to as kiloboomer for a reason (it's plug and play 1gpw). With the advantage of overlapping lamps (normally, horizontally, 'as designed' after decades of academic research...) and the space you have that's 20kilo in an 'ok' run. My numbers were conservative too.

Obviously your vert setup can be justified somewhat by being limited to 18 plants but still, and if for example someone would have a setup like in heath's flooded tubes setup it's arguably more efficient (using only a circle within a square surface logically never is though....), but in general it's a huge waste of light and energy.

I could simulate it in a $5k piece of software showing it 'photon by photon' but this little photoshop drawing should be obvious enough. You can't place a 1000watter close enough to even those huge plant to catch all the light.
Imagine what a little make-shift diy disc-shaped reflector hood would do

Surely you'll get dense buds all over, but at what cost?? Another post comes to mind: https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/702269-hydro-really-much-better-than-6.html#post9474915

Ok? Seems like your itching to start your own thread. Just because people in the NL grow horizontal doesn't mean it's THE BOMB. Same thing with the gavita...way overpriced and only one bulb option. So yeah, your growing shit loads of vegetables and what not. How many 7' lettuce plants your growing?

We need the most weight from the fewest plants. That way is vertical! Again, kind of annoying at this point. Go spread "the truth" on another thread.

In case you somehow missed the memo, this ain't my first rodeo

legallyflying said:

Just because people in the NL grow horizontal doesn't mean it's THE BOMB.

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Which clearly wasn't 'just' my only argument.

Disappointing... another "I don't need help I know it all already"...

legallyflying said:

Ok? Seems like your itching to start your own thread.

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Nope, was trying to return the favor by helping you, and whether you like it or not, you could clearly need some help. But don't worry, I get the message. Won't bother posting in 'your' thread again. Good luck.

Well, post up some pictures of your grows then... Let's see some of this magic in action. Not that I care all but it's posts like yours that make me not want to post any grow threads. Someone comes in with all this knowledge that they read here and there and then just starts preaching it like it's the gospel of growing. I however have learned quite a bit by doing in addition to reading. I'm sorry to break it to you but your wrong on a couple of counts... One being that aluminum foil or mylar is more reflective than other material (gleaned from the thread you posted a link to) and that growing with bare bulbs is enifficient.

Like I said, I've been around the block a couple times and I have helped with all manner of horizontal grows and a couple vertical ones. I've seen 2+ lbs coming off of indoor trees with vert bulbs. Yeah if I was doing a SOG with 400 plants I would probably use trays and reflectors..but we are not.

At any rate, thanks for your opinions. I honestly thought it would take a little longer for the " your doing it wrong" guy to rear his head. It's actually kind of comical, you started a thread in June of this year titled "roots from first hydroponic grow" and now your on your what, second hydro grow and you have it all dialed?

It took me several years of outdoor and more than a year of two Seperate indoor setups to really get things cranking out dispensery quality buds.

Its cool to point stuff out and offer suggestions but I never understood trying to convince someone to change their setup... let ppl try new shit. Even if he burns the shit out of his plants and yields .4gpw it won't effect anyone here. I'm not going to get into vert vs standard because I don't have the experience with vert to talk shit yet.... I try not to gibe out advice about things I have no actual real world experience with.

One thing i notice with my vert setup is the lamp isnt hitting the top of my tallest plant. I am interested to see how strong side lighting from my vert setup will work vs moderate horizontal lighting on top of the canopy (which mine are never perfectly flat).

Wow, nice setup, hope you dont mind if i pull up a chair

Not at all. I'll pop on over to your grow and see what is happening.

Tonight's grow room main event....CAGE MATCH

That is a truly impressive setup bro+++ to you for that.


I realllllllllllllly like the underground thing. With a garage over it even. Nice! exactly what I would like to do someday...... 18kw huh? How much ac are you running? What's your room temps so far? CO2?


subbed

Hey joe. Right now we are running fans simply because it is cool here at night. We will install about 7-8 tons of mini splits in the spring though.

With outside temps in the 50's we have two max can fans on the inlet side and two on the outlet. Keeping things at 78. The fans actually shut off a couple times during the night.

We were shuffling plants around and started staking and staking and staking and I said fuck it dude. I'm going to go to Home Depot, by 300 feet of fencing and we are building rectangle cages around the lamps at the preferred distance for final buds (about 16") and be done with it.

I have a couple really bad picturs of the "cage match" I'll post tomorrow. Also built some duct silencers and wow! Do they really silence things down. Pretty amazing and only cost us $60 each.

Anyways, it's late, I'm tired, my arms itch, and my eyes hurt.

Cooooooooool.... I've been watching some hempy grows lately and this one takes the cake... vert is neat too, i'll be following this one. +rep for your op

Just wondering what you're using to control your fans? thanks

legallyflying said:

I have a couple really bad picturs of the "cage match" I'll post tomorrow.

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Great idea on the cages, can't wait to see the pics

legallyflying said:

Hey joe. Right now we are running fans simply because it is cool here at night. We will install about 7-8 tons of mini splits in the spring though.

With outside temps in the 50's we have two max can fans on the inlet side and two on the outlet. Keeping things at 78. The fans actually shut off a couple times during the night.

We were shuffling plants around and started staking and staking and staking and I said fuck it dude. I'm going to go to Home Depot, by 300 feet of fencing and we are building rectangle cages around the lamps at the preferred distance for final buds (about 16") and be done with it.

I have a couple really bad picturs of the "cage match" I'll post tomorrow. Also built some duct silencers and wow! Do they really silence things down. Pretty amazing and only cost us $60 each.

Anyways, it's late, I'm tired, my arms itch, and my eyes hurt.

Click to expand...

It's funny how ambient temps can really affect your grow space, isn't it?!? Two weeks ago we were in a hot and humid spell where I am at and it was a bitch controlling the temps in my tent. Now that the temps have become more seasonal, it is much easier. Since my tent is in the cellar where it is naturally cooler anyway, I imagine in the winter I may have a problem with it being too cool!

^ running a dehu at night will help with night time temps

The fans are controlled by a cap xgc-1 extreme greenhouse controller. The dehu (santa Fe max 155 dual) is also controlled by the xgc-1. Right now it's plugged into the co2 port on the controller so it will only run when the fans are not running.

Also, the fans draw too much juice for the controller so I just rigged a small plug to serve as a relay trigger ($10 30 amp definite purpose relay on eBay). Like this one ...http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=390610152250

Those that don't what a relay is, you run full time power to one side and the thing you want to power in the other. Then you wire a simple plug that connects to those little tabs in the middle. When you energize that plug (timer) the switch closes and you have power. (That's also how you control 80 amps worth of lights with a $10 hydro farm timer).

I'll try and post pics... Just too much weed, work, and pussy.

Things could be worse

legallyflying said:

^ running a dehu at night will help with night time temps

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I actually have a dehumidifier, that is a good idea. I'm a bit concerned it may become TOO dry, but during flowering that is better than too humid.

Thanks for the tip!

Unless you have a massive commercial dehu, it will not get too dry. Off the shelve dehu units at like home depot and what not are rated at 80 degrees and 100% humidity. Meaning that when its 60% humiidty and 70 degress they are extracting about half of their rated amont.

Looking very good in there, cant wait to see some bud porn I love the thought of the underground "bunker" so to speak grow. Unless I missread, no ac? Thats pretty impressive for that amount of wattage.

Its surely a shame about only being allowed 18 plants, but I certainly understand keeping a grow fully legal. Where you live can you grow collectively with multiple cards?

Gonna sub up, pack a bowl, and watch the show, carry on

-papa

WTF. I posted pics about two weeks ago and now they are not here?

Sigh. Sorry. I will say that it's VERY hard to take a decent pic with all the very bulbs and cages.

I will also say that we are in week 3.5 right now and there are some ridiculous looking buds. Like no, seriously we were in there tonight and honestly there are going to be some one ounce buds on these guys. We both seem to think it was the paclobuytrozol and diaminizode (sp?). Phosphoload for those that don't know what's inside the bottles you buy.

Hit them with heavy 16 prime and fire.

But yeah..no AC. Just 4 12" max can fans. With the ducting and filters and what not, we are probably moving around 3000 CFM through the room. Reset the thermometer today and max recorded temp (canopy) was 81. I think the room was 78 or so.