AGRONOMY: Flip now OR This SCROG needs time to stretch more vertically for optimal harvest weight? Canopy bud density considerations?

Questions:

1. Flip now? Or this SCROG needs time to stretch more vertically for optimal harvest weight? I would like the sides of the plants to stretch up really tall now -- stadium shape
2. How is my canopy bud density? (I have trained them all to have about 5-10 main colas.)

My proposed plan of action:

I think one way to help cause extra vertical stretch, is to initiate flower gradually by going from 6 hours darkness now (veg) to 10 hours for a week (start tomorrow), followed by 12 hours of darkness for the rest of flower? I am using indica dominant strains so they might even be happy with 10 hours of darkness for the rest of flower.

Also I can create a stadium shape by pruning leaves on the center very occasionally to retard that area, until the stadium shape forms. I think I would prefer to have 20 medium sized or big buds than just 7 per plant. No??

I know you didn't ask, but looks like you are having some issues. Don't flip before it's under control.

Horselover fat said:

I know you didn't ask, but looks like you are having some issues. Don't flip before it's under control.

Click to expand...

Please specify what kinds of issues mate? I dont seem em. Maybe it is the harsh white light of the photography method (I didnt turn off the LED QBs)? They seem pretty healthy to me!!

Overgrowtho said:

Please specify what kinds of issues mate? I dont seem em. Maybe it is the harsh white light of the photography method (I didnt turn off the LED QBs)? They seem pretty healthy to me!!

Click to expand...

Yeah, photos come out weird sometimes. You are the one who actually sees the plants. However this growth doesn't seem quite right to me. New leaves coming out thin and wrinkly makes me think of ph/root problems. If they look fine IRL you can forget about my comment.

the wrinkles are from a heavy water , back off the water a lil,
are they in organics? or what they in?

you are in the SAME position as me, i am 6x6ft scrog and i am 15cm off my net,

let it grow UP no training 1 week, when it touchest the net go 12/12 and train it under and tie down as needed for aprox 2 weeks,
BUT u need to get some broom handles down the sides that net is bollox, ebay has scrog nets 5 quid, u need that net TIIIGHTTTT like u can sit on it tight, they WILL force it up, i even put a bar across the middle sometimes and put a 10kg weight on it,
also u need 2inch 50mm holes they look like 100mm


they look healthy just over watered

They are in soiless, peat based 75% with 13% rice hulls and 12% vermiculite. So I'm not convinced they are over watered? since its kinda hard to overwater with this media? But anyways here is a better picture (hopefully).

Now you mentioned to let them go vertical for 2 weeks then tie under. But isnt that a bit counter productive since I already have a full canopy? Or its just to make the density of buds accross the canopy thicker? you mean? I thought now that I have a pretty full canopy I should let them go vertical and maybe add a higher net as well (I have more hooks setup)

Overgrowtho said:

They are in soiless, peat based 75% with 13% rice hulls and 12% vermiculite. So I'm not convinced they are over watered? since its kinda hard to overwater with this media? But anyways here is a better picture (hopefully).

Now you mentioned to let them go vertical for 2 weeks then tie under. But isnt that a bit counter productive since I already have a full canopy? Or its just to make the density of buds accross the canopy thicker? you mean? I thought now that I have a pretty full canopy I should let them go vertical and maybe add a higher net as well (I have more hooks setup)

Click to expand...

nah man very easy to over water in that media
ur basicly organic, same as me, im peat/wormpoo/rice hulls lava and pearlite. i do the seaweed/neem/crab etc too, trust me over ewatering is VERY VERY easy bro, u need little and often, them wrinkles are form toomuch water and low oxygen saturation in that area, it will level out,

grow em up 1 week and train for 2 weeks, backwards and forwards, nah man u want branches not weak arms, u wana fill that top, getting a tight net with more holes will explain it, i end up with like 200 identicle arms,

i felt liek u im liek im full canopy,, but if that canopy is short u aint gona water confortably too, u got bluemats on .. they help dial watering in,
when u bend them over as they come through the screen, u will introduce more arms they wil wana grow up for like 12 inch and u wana control them at 6 via tiedowns and tucks, weaving till tere all level,

u have ALOT of room still to fill believe it or not, if ya took all them leaves off ud see theres not asmuch as ya think they will fill u want tight ass bushes exploding,
there perfect they just need to gro wup into a tight net and be trained

I have a soil mosture meter on Wifi and I was always trying to keep it around 60 to 80% moisture, hitting the high point and low point daily or twice daily. I had good results with that approach. Does that sound like a good target?

However in these plants, there was some nitrogen toxicity earlier (I hadn't flushed enough) so I flushed and may have saturated too much, so it's been really wet recently.

Anyways, I will keep working on dialing that in. I've got the automatic irrigations programmed to be skipped when the media moisture is already above 75%.

Growth hasnt been super fast this round. I think I had better luck with 50/50 peat vermiculite instead of this 75% peat.

Thanks for advise about the smaller and tighter nets.

Do you recommend I defoliate strong during this process of bending over and training, so I can see whats going on, and open more growth shoots?

Also you really do the weaving up and down above and below the nets? (It makes such a tangle and mess to unwind upon harvest! But I'll do if it works!).

what are you feeding~>? your almost in pure organics and your flushing? thats not good really, there shoudlnt be a runoff or a burn less u use nutes?
if you are ? why ? i never yielded somuch since trustign pure organics, and its easy, all u are missing is crab kelp and neem . i swapped to organics getting lucky at 1gram per wat and now im gettin 2.2gpw lol and ive done less each grow same soil just added in my amendments each time to the top .



the soil shouldnt be that wet it should feel moist but stil crumble grab a hand ful squeeze tight and get a small trickle down ya hand with 1 or 2 drips at tight squeeze is good, any more or water runnin down and its way over watered, . put it thisway id squeeze my soil over my knee i know i wont get drenched, a drip maybe max wil run down my arm,

i defoilate periodicaly, so like if a leaf is massive like in yours covering sites i would take them off leavign asmany as i coudl for the sugar content, brix is important, but getting light through also will help increase that,

strip off lower arms that are ground level shitty cutting looking things cause there wasted energy,
them top arms will train out as they stretch in flower,

my plan now in ur room i woudl read the plants, they want less moisture, less wet = more air there is a balance your only slightly over the microorganisums need oxygen they feed the plant, if they cant breathe they cant feed, regulate or control,
so
1 less water at once, little n often (bluemats help)
2 strip lower arms
3 defoilate the big fan leaves off and mulch them,
4 tight net with 50mm holes, using copper pipes/broom handles either weave the net, or using tthem hooks on the wall fix them to it and tiewrap the net to them, u can pul it tighter and tighter as ya go, £5 for real scrog net on ebeey
5 wait and watch 5days they will FLY up and hit the net,

then and only then 7 days from now
6 flip and get redy for 2 weeks intense tucking and weaving down under the net every day checking,
(this step can change by strain my gelato 41 has no stretch at all that i DONT train i do that in veg its different130% full and throguh , where as my pink lemonaid i train 1 week and let her then grow through, as she has around 12 days stretching so i stop just before the end to let her get 6inch through, but my squirt has 5 weeks where i have to train or she grows out the tent, she needs to be flipped early when the net is only 30% full, but general rule is 2 week training, i STOP when i see pistils cathering thats means bud productions startign and stretch will stop any more and ull be undoing some weaving then )
to flip when the net is full like i am now can be good its better when u have wall like u, if ur outgrowing a tent that squashes in tht gets rough,
your leaves show sativa i know there indica but phenos more mom more dad uve got some sat there long thin leaves jagged not fat leaves liek an indica so ur gona have a good 2 week training,


il shoot u some pics later of mine if you like, im literatly going along with u now and im multi strained haha all breeds hehe

as for weaving i do this pull net up i move a pole over the canopy as i release to squash it down then i adjust as needed by hand ALL UNDER

if i need to liek in final time there is 1 arm stickign up still i cant tuck, ill tiewrap her down to the net ontop yes but only if i have to,
harvest i chop all as whole if poss and weave it out, hand it with leaves, if not, i cut each arm off which have no popcorn and hang them that is fun tho snipping quarter oz buds only no small scuff.

I am feeding salts not organics. Partly because I have a few ops and handling that much organic material over a few locations seems like a lot of effort. Plus the whole biochemistry and dosing of it is still pretty intense for me. Im happy with 1 gram per watt if I can get that for now but I'll consider organics in the future if it's less work overall.... 2.2 gram per watt would be amazing and hard to beleive lol

But please show me what your talking about with pictures? Or link to any tutorial that you recommend?

I am seeing that you cant just veg for 1 month with this technique.

You need to veg like almost 1.5 to 2 months? Because a lot of tucking and stuff....

It seems this method you suggest will work fine, but will take an additional considerable amount of time @2cent

Overgrowtho said:

It seems this method you suggest will work fine, but will take an additional considerable amount of time @2cent

Click to expand...

i veg like 3-4 weeks, then flip, from cutting, 6 with seed ofc,
nah not long veg , the growth would increase MASSIVELY if u open up and remove the fan leaves and remove the bottom arms trying to grow, most ur energy is in the little arms below trying to gro up and blocked by the fans ontop,

organics is less work than salts i went here form salt, i spend nothing too haha cut costs, my soil is in is no till it NEVER changes never tills, i only add water and feed a handful of kelp and coconut water, i mulch with straw and sometimes add compost,

each end of cycle i reamend, 6 things, kelp/neem/rockdust/gypsum/crabshell/barley powder and thats 1/4 cup of each in a 500litre bed, lol

the worms do all the work,

i got 2 big ones on the go atm, got a MG def in 1 im trying to locate thats my only stress, but its easy once i figure that out ive not changed anytign in 5 grows hah, leave roots in cut the stem and let t compost witha new cut next to it lol cant be easier,

u can also drop the mesh lower u have the room to drop it onto the canopy and flip but id stil remove alot of up top and below,

I have kept removing more leaves into flower so that there is a canopy of tall buds with few leaves and a canopy below that with plenty of leaves and tops too. Below that is just a bit of jungle.

looking good man, next time get the tighty tight mesh and grow again ul be even more buzzing,
lookin damn finee

Thanks bro I got a fishing net for next time that has half the size squares