Another Republican President, Another Recession.

doug58 said:

I sold my house in Arizona during the recession of 2009, in October at over $60,000 more than what I bought it for.

Click to expand...

Putting aside that this could just mean you had bought that house for a very low price or lived there for a long time and accrued a lot of increase in your property value over that time.

I bet the people that bought it from you if the above is not the case got screwed when the value collapsed leaving them with the bag.

doug58 said:

I sold my house in Arizona during the recession of 2009, in October at over $60,000 more than what I bought it for. My current house is apparently worth much more than I paid for it. Tiny cabin down the road on a tiny 60 foot lake lot sold in October for $200,000 in three days. They had listed it for $180,000.

I live on the same lake but on an island. I have 175 foot of frontage, a larger yard, a pole barn. I over paid at $168,000. I have had two different individuals approach me to convince me to sell even though I don't have my place for sale. Neighbors tell me I can get $250,000 for my current house.

Real estate is just like the stock market. You buy low and don't sell until the market is right. You don't overpay if you what to profit. You hold until the market is right.

I purchased my current place by putting $87,000 cash down, financing the remainder on a 15 year loan and paying it off in 10 years. Never take out a second mortgage or refinancing to get cash to buy things that aren't necessary. Live within your means.

Sounds like your neighbors failed in all of that. I currently have my mortgage paid ahead to June of 2021.

People I worked with told me it was stupid to pay my mortgage ahead. Come lockdown, I was paid ahead 1 year in advance. I didn't need to make mortgage payments for one year. I spent six months making principal only payments paying down the actual principal.

The one individual that was most vocal in condemning me at work for paying my mortgage a year ahead has filed bankruptcy twice that I know of.

Click to expand...

doug58 said:

My current house is apparently worth much more than I paid for it. Tiny cabin down the road on a tiny 60 foot lake lot sold in October for $200,000 in three days. They had listed it for $180,000.

I live on the same lake but on an island. I have 175 foot of frontage, a larger yard, a pole barn. I over paid at $168,000. I have had two different individuals approach me to convince me to sell even though I don't have my place for sale. Neighbors tell me I can get $250,000 for my current house.

Click to expand...

I remember all the house flipping tv shows just prior to the last recession.

Ive heard a lot of people are trying to buy homes right now. If the economy doesn't completely collapse it is great, if it does we could be looking at the same thing as in 2009-2011. When houses would sit for a year or so before the people would have to leave after they stopped paying their mortgages.

I bet your place is beautiful man, congrats!

doug58 said:

Real estate is just like the stock market. You buy low and don't sell until the market is right. You don't overpay if you what to profit. You hold until the market is right.

I purchased my current place by putting $87,000 cash down, financing the remainder on a 15 year loan and paying it off in 10 years. Never take out a second mortgage or refinancing to get cash to buy things that aren't necessary.

Click to expand...

I would consider thinking about real estate like a game of musical chairs. But the person who is left with the chair when the music stops is the one that loses the ability to sell the house again.

Nice job on the rest. Did you rent prior to that? That is a big nut to lay down that a lot of people won't be able to save up for years/decades if they are starting from scratch.

doug58 said:

Live within your means. Sounds like your neighbors failed in all of that.

Click to expand...

Kind of shitty assumption. They actually lived well within their means. But unfortunately the company that they both worked for collapsed in 2009 and they were unable to recover and had to make a tough choice.

doug58 said:

I currently have my mortgage paid ahead to June of 2021.

Click to expand...

Nice work.

doug58 said:

People I worked with told me it was stupid to pay my mortgage ahead. Come lockdown, I was paid ahead 1 year in advance. I didn't need to make mortgage payments for one year. I spent six months making principal only payments paying down the actual principal.

The one individual that was most vocal in condemning me at work for paying my mortgage a year ahead has filed bankruptcy twice that I know of.

Click to expand...

Working hard and getting ahead and saving money is never a bad idea man.

But it really depends on the interest rates you are paying on your mortgage and if you could have earned more in say a tax free government bond that would have given you more money in return when it matures than you lose in interest rates (for example). You might have made a bit more return on your hard work.

But I wouldn't call you stupid for just making sure it was in your mortgage at all. It is a good way to make sure your land is always going to be what you work first to keep.

doug58 said:

In response to Biden saying he would not tax people making less than $400,000. How does that align with his promises to repeal all Trump passed tax reductions that were giving $2,000 in tax reduction to all taxpayers and the increase tax credits for the child tax credit? All those poor people who don't pay any federal income taxes due to the child tax credit will start paying higher taxes.

Click to expand...

Unlike the stupidity of the Trump and the Republicans trying to 'repeal and replace' Obamacare then pretend like they would pass something far better, they could amend the legislation to repeal the tax breaks for people making over $400k.

doug58 said:

I worked with a guy in Arizona, he was in a different department and different job. Made more than I did but had five or six children. He paid no federal income taxes as all his children qualified for as deductions in his income taxes plus the child tax credit.

Click to expand...

I am just going to take your word for this. I would say is he not really making that much money and had a wife/bunch of kids to support so their federal taxes were pushing them below the poverty line?

I know it might seem unfair, but the thing I would try to understand is those kids will end up paying far more in taxes on average than their family used while they were growing up.

doug58 said:

I received nothing other than the standard deduction being single with no children. Why should I be taxed to death for not having children, while someone that pushes out another child every year or two gets off with getting more back in a tax refund than they paid in?

Basically, taking money out of every single childess person's pocket because they don't practice birth control.

Click to expand...

Because those kids will one day be the ones paying the taxes that pay for the infrastructure that you use to survive while taking care of you when you need it?

hanimmal said:

Biden repeatedly stated that taxes would not be raised on families making less than $400k a year.




You do know there is a pandemic going on right? This has devastated the service economy because we have been acting like we have not understood virus/bacteria and the like for decades.

We need to figure out how to do things differently as a society. You think we would have learned with 60,000 people dying of a flu each year to not breath in each other's bodily fluids by now, but 350k+ dying from this virus unfotuntly is showing us the very real dangers of this.



They can't unless they have a lot of wealth backing them up. That is why Trump and the Republican's lack of a response has been so devastating. Our economy is fucked. We needed a strong federal response to this disaster, but Trump and the Republicans let it crumble (just like they did in 2008 right before Obama took office).

It sucks that they did this to us again.

But since they are legislating for only one demographic who has enough money to snatch up all those struggling loans on the cheap, economic collapses are really in their favor.



Again, pandemic.

How are your hospital's bed capacity doing? Do you think having a bunch of random people who are under the impression it is safe to travel coming into your community would change that?


Pandemics suck. I really wish that people would have not been brainwashed into thinking holding super spreader events was a good idea.

Hopefully once Biden and the Democrats can get some actual stimulus and the vaccine is deployed wide enough we can get back to normal.

Stay safe.

Click to expand...

Like I said previously, your posts are too long for me to sensibly respond to each point on an Android tablet that acts up with large text quotes. You had a chart posted with ICU numbers.

Look at many of the Northern Michigan hospitals listed. Their covid numbers in ICU are ZERO. The people in those that have anyone in ICU are likely heart attacks or cancer patients who were denied surgeries during Whitmer's insane lockdown. I was diagnosed with diabetes just a week before the lockdowns. I was denied medication and medical care for three months when my follow up appointments were cancelled when the clinic first shut down then had to reschedule all patients. Due to being diagnosed with diabetes, I needed to see my eye doctor to check if diabetes was affecting my vision. They refused to schedule an appointment all year, I am finally getting in next week. 10 months later. My vision seems to be failing.

All dental offices were shut down. I had all dental appointments cancelled.

No doubt Detroit areas have higher infection rates with all those BLM protests of super spreaders. Whitmer was right there with them.

From the chart you had posted before my battery died, Otsego county hospital. Zero covid cases in ICU.

The $87,000 came from the sale of my Arizona home. I had almost paid that home off also. I had it built new in 1995 for $96,000, put $20,000 down. 15 year mortgage after doing no cost refi from a 30 year mortgage. Had it almost paid off when I sold. Sold for $156,000 at the market low. Took the profits and put on my lake cabin in Michigan on a smaller Island. Not a great house but I bought it as I needed a temporary home and figured I would gamble on it going up in price. I could make a nice profit if I could sell today after nine years from purchase. I'm currently involved in litigation concerning an estate involving over $1,000,000 in stocks and cash which I am supposed to inherit over $250,000 from.

Other than mortgages I never take out loans. The last vehicle I bought was new off the lot in 2002, I still drive it. It cost $26,000 new, I paid it off in one year. I don't like owing money.

I have over $250,000 in a Vanguard account. I have a pension from the government, I retired on my 50th birthday and start collecting Social Security with my first check this month which is around $1,500 a month. My pension is around $2,400 a month before I get Social Security but my actual pension gets cut by about $650 a month once SS starts.

That gives me something like $48,000 a year in retirement pay starting this month. Once the estate is settled I will get additional income from my Vanguard investments, currently I could take out $10,000 a year for my life likely. Then from the stocks I get from the estate when settled another $10,000 a year. Around $68,000 a year not working again.

I had mandatory retirement at 57 due to a hazardous government job where life expectancy was low. I didn't expect to live to 62 as few of my co-workers made it that long. Many dying just before or after retirement age. None who worked until 57 to 62.

doug58 said:

Like I said previously, your posts are too long for me to sensibly respond to each point on an Android tablet that acts up with large text quotes. You had a chart posted with ICU numbers.

Look at many of the Northern Michigan hospitals listed.

Click to expand...

Im not familiar with the hospital names, so am not sure which are where. There are very few with 0% ICU beds used. I know for a fact down here and in mid Michigan it is pretty dicey.

doug58 said:

The people in those that have anyone in ICU are likely heart attacks or cancer patients who were denied surgeries during Whitmer's insane lockdown.

Click to expand...

That is wrong. I know someone who has been getting cancer treatments during the entirety of the pandemic.

Shit like knee replacements and other elective surgeries are put on hold.

doug58 said:

I was diagnosed with diabetes just a week before the lockdowns. I was denied medication and medical care for three months when my follow up appointments were cancelled when the clinic first shut down then had to reschedule all patients.

Click to expand...

That sucks about your diagnosis. And healthcare system closed down. You don't have local pharmacies that you could have gotten your medication at?

doug58 said:

Due to being diagnosed with diabetes, I needed to see my eye doctor to check if diabetes was affecting my vision. They refused to schedule an appointment all year, I am finally getting in next week. 10 months later. My vision seems to be failing.

Click to expand...

Sorry about your sight. That is pretty scary stuff.

doug58 said:

All dental offices were shut down. I had all dental appointments cancelled.

Click to expand...

My dentist was actually calling me to try to get my reschedule, but there is no way in hell I want a couple people breathing right into my face during a pandemic.

doug58 said:

No doubt Detroit areas have higher infection rates with all those BLM protests of super spreaders. Whitmer was right there with them.

Click to expand...

You are really triggered by the social justice protests over the summer. You flat out ignored the fact that Russia was pushing corona virus propaganda, are you going to also ignore that they have been pushing propaganda aimed at getting people like yourself to feel the way you seem to about 'BLM'?

https://www.rollitup.org/t/conservatives-programed-to-trigger-at-words-black-lives-matter-by-russian-trolls.1034523/

doug58 said:

From the chart you had posted before my battery died, Otsego county hospital. Zero covid cases in ICU.

Click to expand...

link to hospital webpage.

They seem pretty concerned about the virus that is spreading in your area. I would pay attention to what the medical professionals in your area are saying. Stay safe.

You live in Michigan and never heard about Whitmer and her husband's boat and dock debacle during the lockdown? It was reported everywhere.

Site is not allowing link to CNN article which explains it pretty well. Won't allow NYT link either.


Michigan Governor Says Husband’s Request Was ‘Failed Attempt at Humor’
A business owner said Marc Mallory had pointed out that he was married to Gov. Gretchen Whitmer while asking if the company could move his boat sooner.




Published May 26, 2020
Updated Oct. 8, 2020
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan said on Tuesday that her husband was joking when he tried to use his relationship with her to get their boat moved into the water before Memorial Day weekend.

FROM THE MAGAZINEWhitmer: A Governor on Her Own, With Everything at Stake
Some conservatives have criticized Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, for coronavirus-related restrictions that they considered too severe. She ordered residents in April not to travel to vacation homes within the state but has since dropped that rule.

“My husband made a failed attempt at humor last week when checking in with a small business that helps with our boat and dock up north,” Ms. Whitmer said at a news conference.

“Knowing it wouldn’t make a difference,” she said, “he jokingly asked if marrying — if being married to me might move him up in the queue.”

Ms. Whitmer said that her husband, Marc Mallory, regretted the move and that she wished it had not happened. She said that “he thought it might get a laugh. It didn’t.”

Ms. Whitmer’s comments about her husband came after The Detroit News reported on Mr. Mallory’s request, which NorthShore Dock mentioned in Facebook posts that are no longer public.

“There was a gentleman on hold who wanted his boat in the water before the weekend,” wrote Tad Dowker, the business’s owner, according to The News. “Being Memorial weekend and the fact that we started working three weeks late means there is no chance this is going to happen.

“Well our office personnel had explained this to the man and he replied, ‘I am the husband to the governor, will this make a difference?’”

The company said in a statement that Mr. Mallory was respectful and understanding when it said it could not schedule the installation early, according to The News.

Ms. Whitmer said she did not go to her family’s second home in northern Michigan over Memorial Day weekend. She said her husband went and stayed one or two nights.

“My husband did go to our place in Antrim County and raked some leaves and came home,” she said. “We did not all pile in the car to go enjoy our second home, although that would have been permitted if we had.”

It didn't fly in Northern Michigan where she destroyed the tourist economy. Two thirds of the state depends on tourism during Spring and Summer, then again during deer season starting on November 15th. She increased lockdowns again on November 15th, once again attacking the Northern Michigan economy at the last chance to keep businesses related to tourism afloat.

doug58 said:

In response to Biden saying he would not tax people making less than $400,000. How does that align with his promises to repeal all Trump passed tax reductions that were giving $2,000 in tax reduction to all taxpayers and the increase tax credits for the child tax credit? All those poor people who don't pay any federal income taxes due to the child tax credit will start paying higher taxes. Under Trump standard deductions were raised for everyone. Biden vowed to rescind those deductions.

I worked with a guy in Arizona, he was in a different department and different job. Made more than I did but had five or six children. He paid no federal income taxes as all his children qualified for as deductions in his income taxes plus the child tax credit.

I received nothing other than the standard deduction being single with no children. Why should I be taxed to death for not having children, while someone that pushes out another child every year or two gets off with getting more back in a tax refund than they paid in?

Basically, taking money out of every single childess person's pocket because they don't practice birth control.

Click to expand...

Biden isn't repealing them they are expiring just like the Crooked right planned
Except the Tax breaks for corporations remain
Thanks to Trumpy bear

doug58 said:

You live in Michigan and never heard about Whitmer and her husband's boat and dock debacle during the lockdown? It was reported everywhere.

Click to expand...

I heard a lot of noise, but could care less about gossip like this.

So he wanted to move a boat before the lockdown is a bad thing? Im sure he was probably a dick if they said he was 'just joking', I know I usually am being one when I say that.

Out of everything I posted though this is what you focus on?

doug58 said:

It didn't fly in Northern Michigan where she destroyed the tourist economy. Two thirds of the state depends on tourism during Spring and Summer, then again during deer season starting on November 15th. She increased lockdowns again on November 15th, once again attacking the Northern Michigan economy at the last chance to keep businesses related to tourism afloat.

Click to expand...

So your upset that the Covid-virus carrying masses are not flooding the few stores/gas stations/ hotels/ restaurants (what am I missing?) during a pandemic?

Also I checked. It looks like everything is still allowed man, I am guessing the pandemic is causing people to not want to travel like before because it is so dangerous.

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79137_79770_98926---,00.html

Click to expand...

Herb & Suds said:

Biden isn't repealing them they are expiring just like the Crooked right planned
Except the Tax breaks for corporations remain
Thanks to Trumpy bear

Click to expand...

I forgot about that thank you. It was for the corporations that the tax cut was permanent.

I don't follow Russian propaganda and I haven't watched any news in months. I watch METV and stream movies on a Smart TV as unlimited T-Mobile Home cellular internet just became available on the island I live on. Satellite was the only thing previously available. The American media is now just a Socialist propaganda system.

As far as the chart you posted you don't need to know the hospital names. The column labeled Covid cases in ICU. Most with ZERO covid cases are in Northern Michigan, as in those areas from above Lansing North to the bridge and the UP.

I'm triggered by BLM protests? They were burning and rioting in cities all year with their ANTIFA allies.

I posted somewhere earlier this week how many businesses and building were burned in Portland, Minneapolis and Kenosha. The numbers were in the hundreds. In just three cities.

BLM was founded by Communist, Socialist and Marxist members. ANTIFA was founded in Europe by Marxists.

The Black Lives Matters group fundraising is controlled by Susan Rosenberg. A founding member of the Weather Underground. I personally knew her for two years on a near daily basis after her conviction on domestic terror charges. She was involved in the murder of three police officers but escaped prosecution for that individual crime. She was a scary individual set on the overthrow of America. Her cellmate was another terrorist and member of the FALN who bombed the US Capitol and government buildings. Murdered police officers in the US. Both received pardons from Clinton.

Rosenberg was caught with hundreds of pounds of stolen explosives. Her sentence was commuted to time served by President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001, his final day in office.
After living as a fugitive for two years, Rosenberg was arrested in 1984 while in possession of a large cache of explosives and firearms. She had also been sought as an accomplice in the 1979 prison escape of Assata Shakur and in the 1981 Brink's robbery that resulted in the deaths of two police and a guard, although she was never charged in either case.

Alejandrina Torres (born June 18, 1939) is a Puerto Rican woman whose trial as a member and role in Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (FALN) resulted in her conviction and sentencing of 35 years for seditious conspiracy. Torres was linked to FALN, which claimed responsibility for 100 bombings and six deaths. Her sentence was commuted by President Bill Clinton in 1999.

I sat in a small detention facility with these two terrorists for close to two year, 1986 to 1988.

doug58 said:

You live in Michigan and never heard about Whitmer and her husband's boat and dock debacle during the lockdown? It was reported everywhere.

Site is not allowing link to CNN article which explains it pretty well. Won't allow NYT link either.


Michigan Governor Says Husband’s Request Was ‘Failed Attempt at Humor’
A business owner said Marc Mallory had pointed out that he was married to Gov. Gretchen Whitmer while asking if the company could move his boat sooner.




Published May 26, 2020
Updated Oct. 8, 2020
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan said on Tuesday that her husband was joking when he tried to use his relationship with her to get their boat moved into the water before Memorial Day weekend.

FROM THE MAGAZINEWhitmer: A Governor on Her Own, With Everything at Stake
Some conservatives have criticized Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, for coronavirus-related restrictions that they considered too severe. She ordered residents in April not to travel to vacation homes within the state but has since dropped that rule.

“My husband made a failed attempt at humor last week when checking in with a small business that helps with our boat and dock up north,” Ms. Whitmer said at a news conference.

“Knowing it wouldn’t make a difference,” she said, “he jokingly asked if marrying — if being married to me might move him up in the queue.”

Ms. Whitmer said that her husband, Marc Mallory, regretted the move and that she wished it had not happened. She said that “he thought it might get a laugh. It didn’t.”

Ms. Whitmer’s comments about her husband came after The Detroit News reported on Mr. Mallory’s request, which NorthShore Dock mentioned in Facebook posts that are no longer public.

“There was a gentleman on hold who wanted his boat in the water before the weekend,” wrote Tad Dowker, the business’s owner, according to The News. “Being Memorial weekend and the fact that we started working three weeks late means there is no chance this is going to happen.

“Well our office personnel had explained this to the man and he replied, ‘I am the husband to the governor, will this make a difference?’”

The company said in a statement that Mr. Mallory was respectful and understanding when it said it could not schedule the installation early, according to The News.

Ms. Whitmer said she did not go to her family’s second home in northern Michigan over Memorial Day weekend. She said her husband went and stayed one or two nights.

“My husband did go to our place in Antrim County and raked some leaves and came home,” she said. “We did not all pile in the car to go enjoy our second home, although that would have been permitted if we had.”

It didn't fly in Northern Michigan where she destroyed the tourist economy. Two thirds of the state depends on tourism during Spring and Summer, then again during deer season starting on November 15th. She increased lockdowns again on November 15th, once again attacking the Northern Michigan economy at the last chance to keep businesses related to tourism afloat.

Click to expand...

BTW, just wanted to add.

Notice her husband did not seem to have threatened this boat dock worker by saying what they were doing was criminal if he didn't get his way.


Unlike Dear Leader.

doug58 said:

I don't follow Russian propaganda and I haven't watched any news in months. I watch METV and stream movies on a Smart TV as unlimited T-Mobile Home cellular internet just became available on the island I live on. Satellite was the only thing previously available. The American media is now just a Socialist propaganda system.

As far as the chart you posted you don't need to know the hospital names. The column labeled Covid cases in ICU. Most with ZERO covid cases are in Northern Michigan, as in those areas from above Lansing North to the bridge and the UP.

Click to expand...

Man I showed you the information that the hospital system you mentioned had to say, Covid cases are increasing 8x.

And I have no idea what you mean by 'American media', since that can mean damn near anything and everything.

doug58 said:

BLM was founded by Communist, Socialist and Marxist members. ANTIFA was founded in Europe by Marxists.

Click to expand...

So you don't follow Russian propaganda, but you believe the same nonsense that they push.

I would question wherever it is that you are seeing this information if I was you.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/conservatives-programed-to-trigger-at-words-black-lives-matter-by-russian-trolls.1034523/

doug58 said:

The Black Lives Matters group fundraising is controlled by Susan Rosenberg. A founding member of the Weather Underground. I personally knew her for two years on a near daily basis after her conviction on domestic terror charges. She was involved in the murder of three police officers but escaped prosecution for that individual crime. She was a scary individual set on the overthrow of America. Her cellmate was another terrorist and member of the FALN who bombed the US Capitol and government buildings. Murdered police officers in the US. Both received pardons from Clinton.

Rosenberg was caught with hundreds of pounds of stolen explosives. Her sentence was commuted to time served by President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001, his final day in office.
After living as a fugitive for two years, Rosenberg was arrested in 1984 while in possession of a large cache of explosives and firearms. She had also been sought as an accomplice in the 1979 prison escape of Assata Shakur and in the 1981 Brink's robbery that resulted in the deaths of two police and a guard, although she was never charged in either case.

Alejandrina Torres (born June 18, 1939) is a Puerto Rican woman whose trial as a member and role in Fuerzas Armadas de Liberación Nacional (FALN) resulted in her conviction and sentencing of 35 years for seditious conspiracy. Torres was linked to FALN, which claimed responsibility for 100 bombings and six deaths. Her sentence was commuted by President Bill Clinton in 1999.

I sat in a small detention facility with these two terrorists for close to two year, 1986 to 1988.

Click to expand...

None of this has anything to do with the protests over the summer outside of the spamming of the name over and over again online that was used to program the branding of the name the Russian military wanted pushed to be used to radicalize people against the name.

You don't listen to gossip? I posted the article with Whitmer's own admission that her husband did what he did, right from NYT and Detroit news.

You posted that crap from the DNR and the dates? Oct. She ordered no motorized boats were to operate in Michigan waters period during the Spring fishing season openers in March and April. Not October.

As for hunting season. No inside dining in restaurants during frigging deer season or the entire Summer, when those business owners make their income for the year. Many Northern Michigan businesses are only open for business from March to November. It is when they make the money they need to survive. She locked them down during the months they employ the populace of the region and then shut down from December until March the next year when tourism stops.

This year, they never opened at all. The state campground in my town never opened period. 500 campground sites. Figure 2,000 campers average within a town with a population of less than 1,000 residents. Then all the down state individuals with second homes in the area. The village is dying this year due to no campground open. During her travel lockdown all those Summer Homes remained empty the entire Summer with people afraid to travel because many are old retired people who spend the entire Summer here, many stayed away.

Those Fisher charter boat captains were denied the ability to make a living as they were ordered to not put their boats in the water in the Spring. That ended with the Governor's Husband being outed trying to get her boat and dock put in at Birch lake in Northern Michigan.

You showed me a chart about ICU cases, I saw it and I replied go check that chart again and see all the zero cases of covid in ICU units in Northern Michigan right on the chart you posted. The fact is, there are few COVID cases in ICU units in Northern Michigan where I live. I replied to you but you seem to want to deny the evidence you yourself posted.

If a hospital admits a person they diagnosed with Covid they hit the jackpot in government funding. That's why they diagnosed everything as Covid. Over $50,000 government funding with each Covid patient.

Once again, I live no where near Detroit. I live in Northern Michigan where there is little industry to employ anyone. The economy is completely based on tourism, hunting, fishing, hotels, casinos, restaurants and the building trades related to second homes. Whitmer also shut down all construction in the area in the Spring and Summer. Construction based on tourism from downstate second home owners.

Second home owners like my neighbors down the street, Bill Ford and his sister, grandchildren of Henry Ford and Detroit Lion owner?. Second home owners like Lee Ioccoca though I think he might be dead now. Second homeowners like my childhood friend, Mark Hall who started the Monster Energy drink corporation with two South African millionaires (now billionaires with the success of Monster Energy). Mark was a ski bum that worked in Grand Ledge for a family owned beer distributor, was Western sales manager of Arizona sun tea who up and quit and was hired by two South Africans who bought a small soda company Hansen's Natural and Mark was responsible for developing Monster Energy when he became the President of Hansens which became Monster Energy. He went from a ski bum to being worth somewhere over $100,000,000 in just a short time. The two South Africans who bought the small specialty distributorship of an unknown soda became billionaires.

None of these people even appeared in Northern Michigan this year.

doug58 said:

You don't listen to gossip? I posted the article with Whitmer's own admission that her husband did what he did, right from NYT and Detroit news.

Click to expand...

The story is gossip, not the source. I could care less that her husband karen'd about waiting for his boat.

doug58 said:

You posted that crap from the DNR and the dates? Oct. She ordered no motorized boats were to operate in Michigan waters period during the Spring fishing season openers in March and April. Not October.

Click to expand...

I posted the DNR stuff to show that hunting season wasn't cancelled or anything, and that it was people not coming up (because it is a dangerous pandemic we are currently experiencing) was not because of Whitmer.

doug58 said:

As for hunting season. No inside dining in restaurants during frigging deer season or the entire Summer, when those business owners make their income for the year. Many Northern Michigan businesses are only open for business from March to November. It is when they make the money they need to survive. She locked them down during the months they employ the populace of the region and then shut down from December until March the next year when tourism stops.

Click to expand...

Yeah I know how important hunting season is, and know the enjoyment of a good cup of coffee and nice breakfast after being outside in the cold dark morning.

And I get that it is devastating to the economy and sucks. But I also understand that is a very good reason your hospitals are not currently overwhelmed like they are down here.

You yourself said that all the people you know that had cover are from down here. And they would have brought it up with them and spread them around your towns through those restaurants.

doug58 said:

This year, they never opened at all. The state campground in my town never opened period. 500 campground sites. Figure 2,000 campers average within a town with a population of less than 1,000 residents. Then all the down state individuals with second homes in the area. The village is dying this year due to no campground open. During her travel lockdown all those Summer Homes remained empty the entire Summer with people afraid to travel because many are old retired people who spend the entire Summer here, many stayed away.

Click to expand...

I read on the state website that campsites were not closed down by the state. Was that a local decision or possibly federal land?

doug58 said:

Those were denied the ability to make a living as they were ordered to not put their boats in the water in the Spring. That ended with the Governor's Husband being outed trying to get her boat and dock put in at Birch lake in Northern Michigan.

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Similar to restaurants. Sucks, no question. Nobody wants to hurt businesses. I would have liked to have a federal response to help all these people out. It would cost us much less than trying to hospitalize everyone getting sick.

doug58 said:

You showed me a chart about ICU cases, I saw it and I replied go check that chart again and see all the zero cases of covid in ICU units in Northern Michigan right on the chart you posted. The fact is, there are few COVID cases in ICU units in Northern Michigan where I live. I replied to you but you seem to want to deny the evidence you yourself posted.

If a hospital admits a person they diagnosed with Covid they hit the jackpot in government funding. That's why they diagnosed everything as Covid. Over $50,000 government funding with each Covid patient.

Once again, I live no where near Detroit. I live in Northern Michigan where there is little industry to employ anyone. The economy is completely based on tourism, hunting, fishing, hotels, casinos, restaurants and the building trades related to second homes. Whitmer also shut down all construction in the area in the Spring and Summer. Construction based on tourism from downstate second home owners.

Second home owners like my neighbors down the street, Bill Ford and his sister, grandchildren of Henry Ford and Detroit Lion owner?. Second home owners like Lee Ioccoca though I think he might be dead now. Second homeowners like my childhood friend, Mark Hall who started the Monster Energy drink corporation with two South African millionaires (now billionaires with the success of Monster Energy). Mark was a ski bum that worked in Grand Ledge for a family owned beer distributor, was Western sales manager of Arizona sun tea who up and quit and was hired by two South Africans who bought a small soda company Hansen's Natural and Mark was responsible for developing Monster Energy when he became the President of Hansens which became Monster Energy. He went from a ski bum to being worth somewhere over $100,000,000 in just a short time. The two South Africans who bought the small specialty distributorship of an unknown soda became billionaires.

None of these people even appeared in Northern Michigan this year.

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You should read the warning that the hospitals in the system you mentioned had to say. Cases rising 4x.

I dont disagree that Whitmer had to make some tough calls. It sucks. But it is also why you can sit there and say that you don't have filled up ICU's like we do here. I don't understand why that part is hard for you to see the connection.

I really wish Trump and the Republicans would have helped the economy and led the nation into beating the pandemic so she didn't have to make those tough calls to keep you all safe up there.

You say it is Russian propaganda? The founder of BLM has admitted she is a Marxists.

New York Post....In a recently surfaced 2015 interview, one of the three Black Lives Matter co-founders declared that she and another co-founder "are trained Marxists."

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.

While promoting her book “When They Call You a Terrorist: A Black Lives Matter Memoir” in 2018, Cullors described her introduction to and support for Marxist ideology.


You say Susan Rosenberg, a terrorist that I had daily contact with for two years is not affiliated with Black Lives Matters? She was a former member of the Weather Underground, terrorist.

As of 2020, Rosenberg serves as Vice Chair of the Board of Directors of Thousand Currents, a non-profit foundation that sponsors the fundraising and does administrative work for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, among other clients.

Rosenberg, Weather Underground terrorist. Black lives Matters in charge of fundraising for Black Lives Matters.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her. BLM founder was connected to the Weather Underground.

Hunting season wasn't cancelled, the businesses that cater to hunters, restaurants etc. were denied the ability to open due to the Governor's insane lockdown.

Whitmer extended her insane lockdowns after every protest or court win against her policies. She extended those lockdowns for no reason other than her mad fits that people opposed her actions.

Explain to me how my putting a 14 foot fishing boat into the water with a 9 horsepower engine so I can get off of the island I live on to fish was going to spread Covid 19? Explain that to me, please.

Now explain to me why her order did not cover rowboats, kayaks, canoes or sailboats. Is Covid 19 spread by my small fishing boat with a 9 horsepower engine while that 40 foot sailboat the rich people own is immune from Covid 19 while 10 people are out sailing with there rich Lansing and Detroit residents out drinking Champagne on the weekend?

Burt Lake State Park, Indian River Michigan. I drove by it on a weekly basis. New sign was posted and remained throughout Spring and Summer that the STATE Park was not open.

Haakwood rustic campground, State Camping Facility. Opens in the Spring each year as it sits on the Sturgeon River between Wolverine and Indian River. Sturgeon River is a premier trout stream. Didn't open until near end of Summer, sign on gate, closed due to Governor's Covid lockdown orders.

doug58 said:

You say it is Russian propaganda? The founder of BLM has admitted she is a Marxists.

New York Post....In a recently surfaced 2015 interview, one of the three Black Lives Matter co-founders declared that she and another co-founder "are trained Marxists."

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.

While promoting her book “When They Call You a Terrorist: A Black Lives Matter Memoir” in 2018, Cullors described her introduction to and support for Marxist ideology.


You say Susan Rosenberg, a terrorist that I had daily contact with for two years is not affiliated with Black Lives Matters? She was a former member of the Weather Underground, terrorist.

As of 2020, Rosenberg serves as Vice Chair of the Board of Directors of Thousand Currents, a non-profit foundation that sponsors the fundraising and does administrative work for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, among other clients.

Rosenberg, Weather Underground terrorist. Black lives Matters in charge of fundraising for Black Lives Matters.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her. BLM founder was connected to the Weather Underground.

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Why do you think that these people have anything to do with the protests today?

Do you think that these protests would not have happened if someone wouldn't have coined those particular brandnames?

doug58 said:

Hunting season wasn't cancelled, the businesses that cater to hunters, restaurants etc. were denied the ability to open due to the Governor's insane lockdown.

Whitmer extended her insane lockdowns after every protest or court win against her policies. She extended those lockdowns for no reason other than her mad fits that people opposed her actions.

Explain to me how my putting a 14 foot fishing boat into the water with a 9 horsepower engine so I can get off of the island I live on to fish was going to spread Covid 19? Explain that to me, please.

Now explain to me why her order did not cover rowboats, kayaks, canoes or sailboats. Is Covid 19 spread by my small fishing boat with a 9 horsepower engine while that 40 foot sailboat the rich people own is immune from Covid 19 while 10 people are out sailing with there rich Lansing and Detroit residents out drinking Champagne on the weekend?

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I disagree strongly with your saying that the lockdown is insane.

Maybe on a micro-level (your particular boating situation) I can see that things get lumped in that shouldn't be.

But do you understand the need on the macro-level? Do you understand why chartering us southern michiganders around and having us show up in large numbers for your local restaurants when the virus is spreading around here is just good sense?

Do you not believe that there is a pandemic going on?

I don't know the particulars of boating. I never had the privilege of being on any boat but my buddies row boat and the Bobalo boat when I was a kid. So I am not going to disagree with your particular outrage about people being idiots and non-helpful regulations being in place with large general moves like are needed when dealing with a worldwide pandemic.


But for real, do you not understand that us not coming up to your neck of the woods has most likely saved your hospitals from being overrun (like they are in mid and lower Michigan) because of the current pandemic?

doug58 said:

Burt Lake State Park, Indian River Michigan. I drove by it on a weekly basis. New sign was posted and remained throughout Spring and Summer that the STATE Park was not open.

Haakwood rustic campground, State Camping Facility. Opens in the Spring each year as it sits on the Sturgeon River between Wolverine and Indian River. Sturgeon River is a premier trout stream. Didn't open until near end of Summer, sign on gate, closed due to Governor's Covid lockdown orders.

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https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163-522730--,00.html

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State parks were open, but the campgrounds were closed.So you still had full access to it, and anyone who would be willing to drive there, and then drive home. But just not the idiots that I am surrounded by who would come up there and stay to spread the virus for a few days then leave while your neighbors got hammered with the virus.

You say I ignore that the lockdown reduced cases. I say the lockdowns increased cases by stifling herd immunity.

All those downstaters that came to my location on weekends this Summer at their second homes on the lake I live on got up here and didn't wear a mask or socially distanced themselves from anyone. There are a couple hundred houses on the lake, 20 more on the island. Only 6 houses on the island are lived in, a couple are weekly retails. Downstaters come up for a week or two in the Summer and occasionally on weekends. They don't go to stores, they bring food and beer with them. Then the sit around bonfires drinking and grouping with no mask on with other downstaters, partying. Then they go back to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Chicago and Lansing. I gave up social distancing and wearing a mask back in June when I saw Whitmer out marching with Black Lives Matter terrorists and decided no more complying.

I have caught nothing and all those 70 year-old downstaters said they will refuse to be vaccinated before they headed back downstate at the end of the tourist season. Many of them still come up every few weekends. Just yesterday I was walking my dog and ran into and old husband and wife walking towards me with a dozen relatives who live downstate. No one wearing a mask, youngest around two, others in their 20's, 40's and 70's. They called my German Shepherd who ran to greet them with me yelling to my dog to come back. I had to retrieve my dog that everyone is crowded around now petting her and breathing around me. Yeah, that social distancing is working great.

A rental vacation home just a couple houses away from me rents by the week. Huge expensive rental, it gets rented out to large groups, like to women in groups of 12 or more. Six or more cars at a time for every rental. These aren't family units, they are groups of unrelated individuals often up for a week of partying. No masks, no social distancing. Drunk groups of downstaters who come up to me in groups while walking my dog wanting to pet her.

hanimmal said:

Why do you think that these people have anything to do with the protests today?

Do you think that these protests would not have happened if someone wouldn't have coined those particular brandnames?





But do you understand the need on the macro-level? Do you understand why chartering us southern michiganders around and having us show up in large numbers for your local restaurants when the virus is spreading around here is just good sense?

Do you not believe that there is a pandemic going on?

I don't know the particulars of boating. I never had the privilege of being on any boat but my buddies row boat and the Bobalo boat when I was a kid. So I am not going to disagree with your particular outrage about people being idiots and non-helpful regulations being in place with large general moves like are needed when dealing with a worldwide pandemic.


But for real, do you not understand that us not coming up to your neck of the woods has most likely saved your hospitals from being overrun (like they are in mid and lower Michigan) because of the current pandemic?

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The people still come up here, they just don't spend any money because the businesses they utilize were shut down on the Governor's orders, beauty shops closed all year, barbers closed, Restaurants closed.

Those who own houses up here do their grocery shopping downstate and bring their food and drinks with them because businesses were shut down. Bars were closed until September or October. Then Whitless ordered them all closed again on November 15th, the opening day of deer season. I told you that previously. She shut them down the day people finally returned to Northern Michigan for two week deer season. The entire Northern 2/3rds of Michigan votes overwhelmingly for Republicans.

You can't see that she intentionally punished those areas that vote republican? She did it intentionally in was to punish those in Northern Michigan who don't vote for her. Everytime a big event like deer hunting season opener or Walleye and Bass season was set to happen she came out with idiotic orders, like close all restaurants again on the opening day of deer season.

Jesus, if you can't see the hypocrisy I don't know what else to say to you.

As far as a pandemic, isn't it funny that deaths due to the common flu are non-existent this year? I read numerous articles concerning yearly flu deaths which were often in the hundreds of thousands. This year none being reported. Why? Could it be because Covid 19 admissions get the hospitals huge amounts of federal funding? Reported $50,000 + per patient.

You "State parks were open, but the campgrounds were closed.So you still had full access to it, and anyone who would be willing to drive there, and then drive home. But just not the idiots that I am surrounded by who would come up there and stay to spread the virus for a few days then leave while your neighbors got hammered with the virus."

These are state park campgrounds. They were closed, as in the roads were gated and you couldn't get in unless you walked in to an empty campground. You had access if you were walking in to a frigging empty campground you couldn't use.