Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

Check this out http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Small_LEDs_are_more_economical_brighter-article-oprc02_cree_nov2012-html.aspx

Super Warmies...and neutrals/cools
1-(hope they are a bit more cheap...)
2-(I 've to get , a reflow oven.....)...
Or...
Need 100 of them pre-soldered in ten small pcbs...
With some more whites ,and few reds,along...

....

Yay!....

PetFlora said:

Check this out http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Small_LEDs_are_more_economical_brighter-article-oprc02_cree_nov2012-html.aspx

Click to expand...

128Lm/W holy hell! Now all we need is for that to filter down so it is less than a dollar a Watt and I will be a happy man... Good find Pet!

and the best of all with this new E2 - G2 series from Cree is the specs at 85° celsius.
osram is also on the same train.
let me say, a big step in the real world.

....the ideal light is- as close to father sun..

AΣΤΗΡ=Hellenic word for star...Sun...We've done the same thought...
All started from there....

Though they say ....

I do not believe that we have to copy illumination of plants in natural conditions for use in controlled environment growing. For example there's no need to grow some species of plants under alternative light dark periods. (Ohhhh..He is talking about time....A-ha..! *)Our research showed that productivity of some plants (radish, wheat) can be increased under continuous irradiation (Tikhomirov et al., 1976; Lisovsky et al., 1987). Also, we should not strictly aspire to duplicating morphophysiological characteristics of field grown plants. Thus, for example, we achieved a very large radish productivity when we sharply changed its photomorphogenesis(still using "time" ... ) (Tikhomirov et al., 1976). This is true for increasing cucumber productivity too. However, if we accept this concept, we must know where and how we should deviate from natural conditions to increase productivity of plants grown in controlled environments

Click to expand...

....
Deviate ?
Why not mimic ,even closely ?
Why not make it better ?
Ahhh,yes...
Now,I get it...
That would be a deviation ,already...


One day I 'll tell you about a "photomorphogenic" little,program,
for flowering,of mine....
Stardusty,already..
Tested and worked fine...
Tested from many...
I call it " bud sculpturing "...
It has to do with hours of light....
But ,that's another story,already....
Maybe,later on...

Take a glimpse ...

24/0
20/4
20/4
18/6
.....
13/11
12.45 /11.15
12.30/11.30
12.15/11.45
12/12
12/12
12/12
12/...
....
....
Or to make it simpler ....
Think vegging with 504 hours of light ,under same flux...

1-Case 24/0 : 3 weeks=21 days.... =504 hours
2-Case 18/6 : 4 weeks =28 days =504 hours
3-Case 14;24' :/ 9;36' : 5 weeks=35 days =504 hours

Same thing ?
Same plants ?

No-no-no-no...

Big difference...
....
Conserning final yields,also ...

Playing with Pr/Pfr ratio, by using time ,and not light ,this ..uh..time..
He-he...

Another time,though..
Soon...
(I hope...)
Put in use, along with led illumination...

For now ..
Some of the third testing group...
Along with HPS...

Yum yum. Going to have to order some samples and get them on to stars.

So...
I think we are getting pretty close here to something...
Not sure...
But...

Anyway...
Still in my mind...
A small devil.....
What about ,specific phosphor mixes ?
(ohh,believe me they have ,every color of phosphor and ability to mix 'em...
Like paint,one thing...He-he-he..
Google led phosphors red,green,yellow,blue,orange,ect...
With spectras and everything....)

That stupid little led.... The pink one ....
Pink phosphor....
Seen the spectum...
I have uploaded somewhere i think...
It's like blue+red=magenta....Oh....It has two main peaks...
One in blue and one in orange-red...(somewhere at 610,if I r.c. )..
And a bit of other wl...
So magenta...+ a bit of "white"=pink....
Nice .." filler "...
Balanced...
Red opposite blue and vice versa..
2 to 4 of them ...Not many...
They seem new goodies to play with...
A bit...
Maybe they will prove sh!t...
But they seem ...funny..
Pink ?
A .....girly .....color ?
LOL !

...
Sh!t....
F***in' leds....
Neverending possibilities...

Oh....
Yes....

The small early-white led- buds(pop-corns) ,
the oven 'cured' ones....
Short effect...
Expected....Prey of the 6th week...
But nasty,enough...
That wasn't expected...

hi i want to make two panels of leds for a total of 30 watts. i am going to use it to flower one or two small plants in party cups. http://www.ebay.com/itm/100x60x10mm-Heatsink-Aluminum-Heat-Sink-Heat-Sink-for-LED-Power-Transistor-/280795399980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4160b5c72c heatsink i plan on using. plan on buying two of these and having an array of 5x3 leds for a total of 15 on each. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-X-1W-Warm-white-HIGH-POWER-LED-Star-100LM-3200K-140-1watt-/120984748324?pt=US_Car_Lighting&hash=item1c2b40c124 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-1W-White-HIGH-POWER-LED-Star-100LM-6500K-140-1watt-lamp-light-/130764807708?pt=US_Car_Lighting&hash=item1e72309e1c http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-1W-Red-HIGH-POWER-LED-Star-140-light-/110685625367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c5609c17 the leds that i plan on using couldnt find a neutral white if someone can help me find one i would appreciate it. but for right now i plan on using 9 warm 3 cool and 3 red im not sure if that is such a good idea or not please help me sort that out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-MW-12-48V-350mA-16W-AC-DC-LED-Driver-APC-16-350-TUV-Brand-New-/380464132530?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58956df1b2 is my driver that i plan to buy two of and use one per led array. any criticism is greatly appreciated

music64 said:

hi i want to make two panels of leds for a total of 30 watts. i am going to use it to flower one or two small plants in party cups. http://www.ebay.com/itm/100x60x10mm-Heatsink-Aluminum-Heat-Sink-Heat-Sink-for-LED-Power-Transistor-/280795399980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4160b5c72c heatsink i plan on using. plan on buying two of these and having an array of 5x3 leds for a total of 15 on each. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-X-1W-Warm-white-HIGH-POWER-LED-Star-100LM-3200K-140-1watt-/120984748324?pt=US_Car_Lighting&hash=item1c2b40c124 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-1W-White-HIGH-POWER-LED-Star-100LM-6500K-140-1watt-lamp-light-/130764807708?pt=US_Car_Lighting&hash=item1e72309e1c http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-1W-Red-HIGH-POWER-LED-Star-140-light-/110685625367?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c5609c17 the leds that i plan on using couldnt find a neutral white if someone can help me find one i would appreciate it. but for right now i plan on using 9 warm 3 cool and 3 red im not sure if that is such a good idea or not please help me sort that out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-MW-12-48V-350mA-16W-AC-DC-LED-Driver-APC-16-350-TUV-Brand-New-/380464132530?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58956df1b2 is my driver that i plan to buy two of and use one per led array. any criticism is greatly appreciated

Click to expand...

So you are inclined to try 3:1:1 (Warm: cool : red )...
Probably you need a bit more blue...
Either you will use 1 blue (normal blue led 465-475 nm ) or some more cools/neutrals...

My opinion about spectra (or my idea for the ideal..) is :

5:3:2:2
( Warm:Neutral:Cool:red 630 )......

Guod,made me thinking ,for the utilisation of one blue...

(Powerful led..
Generally speaking,for some actinic leds,that may prove useful ...
The lower we go on wl ...
The less flux power or number of leds ,one needs for canopy illumination..
If in the future,will be cheap UVb leds....If...
With .5 W/m^2 (one led per 1m^2 ) and already is the maximum uvb flux for most plants...
1 single led of 500mW flux is all one needs for 1 m^2...Already, too much...Way too much,compared with average values of cultivated / habitated areas....
...
Same goes with uva,violets & blues(specially the shorter ones ex. 420 or 440 ...
...
For the range from 360 nm ,up to 400 nm , a total of 5 Watt/m^2 was maybe the greatest value for nat.sunlight , ever recorded on earth's surface..
Aussie Desert,some years ago...With the 03 hole ,on top ...
So,one has to go really easy, with the " oxidative " -small number of high energy photons- part of light ,
visible or non-visible..)

Dunno...
....
Try it ...

For cheap crappy leds ,go back some posts..
There is a link ,somewhere...

stardustsailor said:

Probably you need a bit more blue...
Either you will use 1 blue (normal blue led 365-375 nm )

Click to expand...

i bet on typo, ...don´t let me lose



... in the good old days, we called this range UVA (part of)....

Thanx,guod....
Stony mistakes...
...
......

"Stardusty Growing Knowledge Recovering "
...
Observe Universe of Mater.Observe Nature.=>
Experiment on mimicking your observations on controlled enviro=>
Observe initiation ,procedure and final results.=>
Think.Relate observations.Compare.Plan.=>
Alter ,procedure.Use Nature,to fullfil your needs and standards you've set......Deviate....


Observe natural sun spectra as it deviates ,according to angle (geographical latitude),time of the year ,or even time of the day...
Compare results of different natural habitats of mj....
Red light close to 650-670 ,over a range of power ,it can cause unwanted overall ,phenotype expression..
Too much .."Sativish",I should say....(not regarding quality,though...)

Too much blue...
(High altitude,mountain indicas..)
Full of resin ,small,compact plants...
With not so great yields,though...

Too much of both...

Short at vegging ,tall at flowering from I.N. streching..,leggy,branchy plant..
Small ,few thick leaves...
Very dark in color...
Lot of bud sites,but with small,under-developed buds..
Full of crystals,though...
Maturing ,may come retarded..

That's some things,that I,personally,have observed...

As " rich " as possible,white light,is a good starting point,for further possible -and carefully selected / optimized -' enhancements '..

Red 630...
Well ..
It seems that this "humble" red..
With a deviation of range +/- 10nm ..
(to cover 620-640 range...)...
It's a more 'tolerable' red in higher fluxes...
And it seems ,efficient regarding P.
But not too much...

Warm whites are also there.
Though ,with less power at that range...
But...
Expanded more through overall "warm" spectral range...

....

But ,probably a blue 465-475 ,might come handy..
It fills some crucial-maybe-..."gaps"...of blue range ,from whites, if only...
But just one per panel,is more than enough...
We'll see,about it..
Put it on a test...
...

Not in very deep..
Just a superficial glimpse...


Tropical Sats.
-Lots of red 650-700,during day.Specially at noon.
-Lots of FR ,during sunset and later on ,for couple of hours or so...
-Lots of uva/uvb
-13h day / 11 h dark during summer .11 h day / 13 h dark during winter..
Small difference,through all year round..
(touchy Pr/Pfr mechanisms on sats ? Thats why easy to show hermies ? )

Sub-tropical ,close to sea level indicas.../ hybrids
-Lots of orange/red (590-620 nm ) ,during day...
-Lots of FR,,during sunset and later on ,for couple of hours or so...
-Plenty of uva/uvb...
-14h day / 10 h dark during summer .10 h day / 14 h dark during winter..
A reasonable difference( 4 hours ),through all year round..
(Affects also bud formation....Short & fat...)

Sub-tropical ,high altitude indicas.../ hybrids
-Lots of orange/red (590-620 nm ) ,during day...
-Lots of blue / violet during day
-Plenty of FR,,during sunset and later on ,for couple of hours or so...
-Extreme values of uva/uvb...
-14h day / 10 h dark during summer .10 h day / 14 h dark during winter..

...
And so on...

Material ,to think over...

Some more of Stardusty philosophy...

...

Well...

Now with leds on plant growing scene...
It's like painting ..
With colors....

Blue opens stomata, but inhibits rate of photosynthesis,if over a limit....And many more...
Red 660 does that....
far red does this...
Green promotes Shade Avoidance Syndrome..(useful for big leaves..but caution : thin,ones ! Easy to rip off )
Cools gives those..
From Warms we get these...
And so on...

Every little nanometer of light ,plays probably a certain role...
That's how plants ,firstly,make their own food....
They do not hunt or prey,upon others ...
(with..hmmm....some...eh....fly eating, exceptions...)
That's why they do not need to move...Also..To .."act"...

And possibly ,they also "sense" a lot of the rest of the world ,at least regarding light signals....
They sense ,at which part of the planet they are..
At which level of altitude....
If other plants are around...
And much more..
And probably ,much -much more ,that we are not aware of, still....

And ,depending from what they sense,they...hmm.."act"...
-Photomorphogenesis ...aka ."Light induced ,structural alteration, mechanism(s) initiation..."
In order to accommodate better to the enviro..
In order to survive ,the new location...
Survival of the fittest"..According to given enviro,always...
(...A bit more melanine for that extra sun protection ,wont'save you from freezing temperatures,at any case...)
In order to evolve.
...
Also flowering,among others, is affected strongly by light,in general...
But I'll bet you already you knew that....
Among many others,that I babble,possibly...
Anyway...

How Light affects plants photomorphogenically
By :
-Quantity ( Light flux )
-Quality ( Spectral distirbution of Light Flux )
-Spatial Stereoscopic Distirbution( also Diffusion level & direction of light ,accounted ..)
-Duration (time length of illumination/radiation )

....Photomorphogenesis in 2 "....!

Going back to point zero...
So ?

What a specific plant needs exactly to thrive ?
How exactly one can deviate ,for scoring certain goals ?
How ,one can use ,plants own reactions(nature....) to certain light induced ' stimulus ',
to deviate it ,-within certain limits,of course- ?


...
" -F#(K ! Iknow that in my genes I'm an Indie....
But something ,outhere -red 660- "tells" me that I'm on ,long-term ,
vacation to Kalahari desert....
Ooops! I should start taking the right measures about that....
I've to forget about my many lush and big leaves......"
.....

Back to the lab....

( Everything is possible...Ain't,so ? )

Hi!

I'm also on making some DIY LED lamps... have read a lot from this forum, but I posted mainly to others, thanks PetFlora for pointing here (I didn't noticed this post)!

I haven't gone as deep as you have documented SDS, but just looking at the spec graphs and using common sense was going to use just WW and NW, then realized adding CW in 2:2:1 ratio will cover better the whole "spectrum".

I have considered using 20 XM-L Crees, and while I was thinking out the design I realized I'd better spread the light sources (LEDs) evenly for my grow space (60cm x 60cm x 1.20m) in two heatsinks.

I have read the whole thread, know the sources for everything but the PCBs and heatsinks.

BTW I'm at this side of the pond, (Southern Spain) shipping wise...

Funny we all seem to be Audio Freaks?

Up till now have observed:

-The more diversity of white leds regarding spectrum ,the better...
Strongly inclined towards the warm part...

-The more in numbers -thus smaller, both in physical dimensions & light radiant power -the panels ,
the better...Much better use of diffused light (concerning power & spectral "mix"/overlapping )
More surface area illuminated at more power...More close to the canopy...

...
...

Rhetorical Question :
"English is not my native language and I do not possess any English Language Degree,of some kind...
If I will start writing ,from now on in my native language..
If...
Who is going to be a non 'ed-u-ma-cate-ed' ? "
.....
Some people are funny...
Really,funny...
....
As for the Ego...
My free given right...
As big as it takes...
...
Thing is, that 'Ego' , seems to be helping a lot others..
...Oh...
BTW ,even you..
So,what to do more or less than to ....
Thank you,back...
My oh-so-able-to-judge , unknown brother, from far away...
From....'Pennsyltuckey',or wherever...
...
Food to my Ego..

..
Just a short break...
Been playing,again,with my ego-food...
...

Her vegging destroyed her...
I learned enough from that period..
Had her 4 weeks, under 24/0 cycle...

Under too much red 630/660...
"Traces" of FR ,only...

When she entered to flowering .
she looked like she was exposed to radiation ,of some kind...
(She was,actually...)
In a really bad shape...
No matter the power used...

Things started to get better, when I'd set the whites...
Way better..
..
But for that girl (the whole grow ,in fact ), it was already too late....
With not many fan leaves(stored materials/energy),how ,on earth,
"heavy" flowering can take place ?
How an effective rate of light use can be achieved with reduced leaf lamina ?
And many more..
Like..
The surfactant that poisoned almost all ,of her leaves...

White light ,just tries to rescue ,the situation....
I consider this grow a failure and just for fun....
A new one has to be done...
All over again ,with 'whites' from the start,this time ....

But ,I've to harvest this poor, sick lady ,first...

repuk said:

Hi!
I have read the whole thread, know the sources for everything but the PCBs and heatsinks.

Click to expand...

Hola amigo We got the heatsinks from a local manufacturer (we try to keep things as local as possible) but I'll try to find you a link for the PCBs though you won't have any problem getting them on e-bay. For heatsinks try at a local electronic hardware store, if they don't have any you need they'll be able to direct you to someone that has.

Hola!!

Will check local prices on heat sinks... is this what acts as PCBs: 20W 2000lm 5500~6000K 20-LED White Light Base Plate - Silver + Black?
though those already include the LEDs...

thanks!

A bit smaller ...
In our panels is 4 rows x 6 leds...
These are 4 rows x 5 leds...
Quality,same...

But..Thing is...

If you gonna use crees you need high-quality pcbs ,with the analog "contact seat " pattern...
With that kind of pcbs only Edison/Seoul leds and some few others, can only be used,from branded ones...