calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
I'm trying to figure out what is in Athena Fade, does anyone have a picture of the label because I cannot read any of the online versions. Cheers.
Athena Fade Ingredients? Anyone got a bottle?
- Thread starter calvin.m16
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calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
Thanks
Thank you
I think it's just a byproduct of the Calcium Chloride. I think it's the only water soluble form of Calcium that doesn't have Nitrogen in it. Probably helps kill off microbes and sterilize roots too? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's interesting how many forms of Iron they add to it too..
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Maybe. Other than the chlorine and lack of nitrogen it looks bout the same as gh micro
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
Chlorine is a micro nutrient the plants need.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
I understand that. Just percentage wise it seemed like a lot.
My tap water provides it as well
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
The percent is based off of what % of all the nutes are in the bottle. Once water is added the ppm would be pretty low.
But yes if your using tap there would be no need for the added chlorine.
I think this would be more for a RO watering.
Lizard0420
Well-Known Member
Don't got a bottle but you can use this code and get your self free bottle 
nxsov180db
Well-Known Member
Edit: don't know how I messed that up, 455 grams calcium chloride and 25 grams of Peters MOST will duplicate the Athena.
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calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure the JR Peters (Jacks) M.O.S.T is packed with heavy metals. I can't find the analysis but I remember seeing it a while back. Worth noting.
nxsov180db
Well-Known Member
Actually MOST wouldn't work in a concentrated liquid stock along with Calcium Chloride, ..didnt even think of it because it's been a few years since I've used sulfated micro's, I use chelates now.. So this could be used along with the calcium chloride https://customhydronutrients.com/Chelated-Micronutrient-Mix-1-lb_p_23129.html
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
Good to know. I don’t plan to use a Nitrogen free feed. Once I saw it had no nitrogen I was no longer intrigued. That’s just complicating shit.
kingzt
Well-Known Member
Just curious but isn't that the point with this fade product? It supplies the micros without nitrogen and the last few weeks.
calvin.m16
Well-Known Member
I look at it just like dimming lights, you're just depriving the plant of something it needs and any time I have done shit like that like dimming lights yield & quality is affected. I feed a balanced diet start to finish just like many have preached.
Don't get me wrong I dim my lights quite a lot in VEG but in flower they're @ 100% power and spaced according to PPFD requirements.
Every day counts in my opinion. I only cut N and flush if there's an obvious lockout/buildup but then I immediately feed with a mild strength feed once corrected.
You can't trust these companies advice, I get that very experienced growers are developing these products and I don't discredit them but I think its really just trying to find more things to sell and make money. You can make a gallon of Athena's cleanse for $1.25 they sell it for $50 a gal. It's a money maker so you can't really trust anything they say regardless of who's saying it.
I quit running teas & microbes last year in coco and noticed no difference in yield/quality I think i was just throwing benjamins into the wind adding bacteria water to my reservoirs. I made a thread on how you can make buckets of those microbes using microbe catalysts.
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kingzt
Well-Known Member
Well thank you for the detailed response. Never really understood flushing too much but I just hated giving nitrogen for that long until the end of flower. I just got a bottle of fade and going to give it test run and see if anything comes from it.
Also what microbes did you run because I might be hopping on your side of removing from my regimen. I did run a product called Max Microbe but the company stopped shipping it to my hydro store. I think the company might of had some issues with the pandemic and not being able to source microbes my guess is. I did however notice a decrease in yield when I stopped using it so i was bombed that I can't get it locally anymore. My current run I'm using photosynthesis plus and hoping to see an increase back to what I pulled the last harvest when using Max Microbe.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I did some testing with Athena Fade and I'm fairly confident in my analysis and frankly, I'm shocked. I'm hoping you guys can chime in and help me understand this. I wasn't really interested in the Micro elements...what I was interested in was the use of Calcium Chloride.
I bought a gallon of Athena Fade and I also bought a pound of Calcium Chloride. I mixed up my own concentrate...454 grams of Calcium Chloride with 1 gallon distilled water.
Next, I mixed 10 ml of Athena Fade with 1 gallon of RO water and measured the PPM/EC.
I then mixed 10 ml of my Calcium Chloride concentrate with 1 gallon of RO water and measured the PPM/EC.
The Athena Fade had a slightly higher EC than my mix, but it was pretty close. Close enough to estimate that they too used 1 pound and the extra PPM's were the misc. micro's they added.
Here's where it gets interesting (and weird). Athena suggests using between 10 and 19 ml/Gal of Fade.
Here's the math on that:
@10 ml: 184 PPM Chloride
@19 ml: 351 PPM Chloride
This is ludicrous, right? It is widely accepted that anything beyond 20 to 30 PPM of Chloride is dangerous and potentially toxic and deadly to plants. So...I took a few plants that were somewhere in the 8th week of flowering and I dropped my micro's and started adding 10 ml/Gal of of Fade in it's place and continued until harvest. To my surprise, they seemed to do okay. But why? How did 184 PPM of Chloride in each and every daily watering not kill them on the spot? I want to do the exact same experiment using my Calcium Chloride concentrate but honestly, I'm a little scared to try it. I don't have any plants I'm willing to be the guinea pig at the moment.
So what's the deal? Have we gotten it wrong and anything beyond 20 to 30 PPM being toxic is just incorrect?
Is Athena lying about what's in the bottle?
I'm tempted to mix 10 ml of Fade in a gallon of RO and send it off for analysis.
I'm just a bit confused and scratching my head. When I saw the PPM's of chloride in their suggested usage, I couldn't believe it.
I bought a gallon of Athena Fade and I also bought a pound of Calcium Chloride. I mixed up my own concentrate...454 grams of Calcium Chloride with 1 gallon distilled water.
Next, I mixed 10 ml of Athena Fade with 1 gallon of RO water and measured the PPM/EC.
I then mixed 10 ml of my Calcium Chloride concentrate with 1 gallon of RO water and measured the PPM/EC.
The Athena Fade had a slightly higher EC than my mix, but it was pretty close. Close enough to estimate that they too used 1 pound and the extra PPM's were the misc. micro's they added.
Here's where it gets interesting (and weird). Athena suggests using between 10 and 19 ml/Gal of Fade.
Here's the math on that:
@10 ml: 184 PPM Chloride
@19 ml: 351 PPM Chloride
This is ludicrous, right? It is widely accepted that anything beyond 20 to 30 PPM of Chloride is dangerous and potentially toxic and deadly to plants. So...I took a few plants that were somewhere in the 8th week of flowering and I dropped my micro's and started adding 10 ml/Gal of of Fade in it's place and continued until harvest. To my surprise, they seemed to do okay. But why? How did 184 PPM of Chloride in each and every daily watering not kill them on the spot? I want to do the exact same experiment using my Calcium Chloride concentrate but honestly, I'm a little scared to try it. I don't have any plants I'm willing to be the guinea pig at the moment.
So what's the deal? Have we gotten it wrong and anything beyond 20 to 30 PPM being toxic is just incorrect?
Is Athena lying about what's in the bottle?
I'm tempted to mix 10 ml of Fade in a gallon of RO and send it off for analysis.
I'm just a bit confused and scratching my head. When I saw the PPM's of chloride in their suggested usage, I couldn't believe it.
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Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
After I got my courage up, I ended up doing a trial of Calcium Chloride @100PPM and to my surprise, botrytis was controlled pretty well. Still had some instances but they were pretty minor. I've been having issues with botrytis for a while now. I introduced this ingredient for the final 20-ish days or so. My next trial will be to increase to 150PPM. Will post back with my findings.