Bernie Sanders 2020

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
everyone in the trades starts off the same, curtis. doing the shit tasks - hauling lumber, picking up trash, you name it. then you get a chance to prove yourself. and you either move up or you move on.

that's how you become a valuable enough asset on a jobsite to get benefits.

it has nothing to do with my wealthy family, only my own work ethic. i guarantee you'd be laughed off any job we worked on within a day, tops.
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That the libertarian dream, but that's not reality. The reality is that tens of millions of Americans work hard every day of their lives, 50, 60, 70 hour work weeks, multiple jobs, just to keep struggling. That's not the American dream, that's not what America stands for. Not the America I grew up in.

People all over this country work hard, just as hard as you do, and get fucked and take home a fraction of what you do. Not because they're bad people, but because our economic system has allowed it to happen, and the haves take advantage of the have nots. Wage theft by employers is magnitudes higher than any other kind of theft we keep track of in this country. People are getting shafted and they have to take it because at least they're not homeless.

This is what the politicians I support are trying to change. The politicians you support are trying to keep everything the same, they uphold the status quo. To them, the only problem is Donald Trump's abrasiveness as head of the US.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
that's not reality.
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it is though.

just about every contractor out there will pay even a worm like you $15-20 an hour to do their shit tasks. if you apply yourself and learn the trade you will quickly move up. instead of doing shit tasks, you will be the guy doing the important work while some other schlub cleans up after you and brings you your tools and lumber.

that's how i went from being the fetch boy on window and door jobs to the guy installing $10,000 doors within a year. after i left there because the hours were untenable after i had a kid, i was the fetch boy building decks - for about a day. when after a year or so the possibility for advancement was too far off into the future, i left that company and started with a new one. i had better building techniques at the new company and took over the lead position hours into my first day there. tomorrow, i will go about building a massive pergola while the guy who used to lead the jobs installs some railings. why? because i didn't sit there and complain that everything was unfair and i deserved better.

you've got to make it happen for yourself, curtis. it's a cold and indifferent world out there. do you have a 5 year plan for improving your life? moving out of your parents' place? finding well-paying work that you enjoy?

tell me about your 5 year plan, curtis. i want to hear about it
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
That the libertarian dream, but that's not reality. The reality is that tens of millions of Americans work hard every day of their lives, 50, 60, 70 hour work weeks, multiple jobs, just to keep struggling. That's not the American dream, that's not what America stands for. Not the America I grew up in.

People all over this country work hard, just as hard as you do, and get fucked and take home a fraction of what you do. Not because they're bad people, but because our economic system has allowed it to happen, and the haves take advantage of the have nots. Wage theft by employers is magnitudes higher than any other kind of theft we keep track of in this country. People are getting shafted and they have to take it because at least they're not homeless.

This is what the politicians I support are trying to change. The politicians you support are trying to keep everything the same, they uphold the status quo. To them, the only problem is Donald Trump's abrasiveness as head of the US.
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I agree with a good deal of what you said. A course of action is necessary to change it. Join a Union, get involved. Get involved politically after work too. That's why my second job is about preserving my first job. Otherwise I might have 2 jobs with shit pay.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
it is though.

just about every contractor out there will pay even a worm like you $15-20 an hour to do their shit tasks. if you apply yourself and learn the trade you will quickly move up. instead of doing shit tasks, you will be the guy doing the important work while some other schlub cleans up after you and brings you your tools and lumber.

that's how i went from being the fetch boy on window and door jobs to the guy installing $10,000 doors within a year. after i left there because the hours were untenable after i had a kid, i was the fetch boy building decks - for about a day. when after a year or so the possibility for advancement was too far off into the future, i left that company and started with a new one. i had better building techniques at the new company and took over the lead position hours into my first day there. tomorrow, i will go about building a massive pergola while the guy who used to lead the jobs installs some railings. why? because i didn't sit there and complain that everything was unfair and i deserved better.

you've got to make it happen for yourself, curtis. it's a cold and indifferent world out there. do you have a 5 year plan for improving your life? moving out of your parents' place? finding well-paying work that you enjoy?

tell me about your 5 year plan, curtis. i want to hear about it
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Why I care is not about me. I'm well off

Why I care is because of everybody else who don't have enough

Why you don't is because of you, because you're privileged

Poor people, minorities, less off, can't go get a good construction job, can't work up in the field, don't have the ability to tell off the next guy because if they do that, they run the risk of being fired. These are the things that happen in the real world, when fantasy land time ends after their lunch break.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:

Poor people, minorities, less off, can't go get a good construction job, can't work up in the field
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are you high on PCP or just fucking stupid?

go browse your local craigslist for "carpenter". take a look at the requirements for carpenter helper or laborer. the only requirements are getting there and having work papers. if you don't move up from shit hauler it is because you are a retard who can't stop complaining about having to work.

and you are certainly not well off, curtis. just recently you told us you work 120 hours a week and take care of your crackhead sister's kid while living at your parents' house.

i want to help you fix your life, curtis. what is your 5 year plan? you tell me yours and i'll tell you mine
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
go browse your local craigslist for "carpenter". take a look at the requirements for carpenter helper or laborer. the only requirements are getting there and having work papers. if you don't move up from shit hauler it is because you are a retard who can't stop complaining about having to work.
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Ayn Rand couldn't have said it better herself

Pick yourself up by your bootstraps..
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Imagine a country where people worked honest jobs and were paid what they were actually worth..
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I remember when it was a lot like that. A lot of good Union and non union jobs, with health insurance, paid holidays and vacations. Unfortunately its gotten away from that and its never going to be like that unless people get off their asses and really fight for it. I didnt grow up in a nice neighborhood with white picket fences where everything was wonderful, but some did and still do, they are the ones who probably wont be fighting for that kind of thing. Unity and organization are necessary. Two things that are hard to come by
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you ask this question again after I've already answered it, you will show yourself to be a dishonest actor, asking dishonest questions

Sanders bill requires everybody to opt into it because if only the poor people who needed access to healthcare opted into it, there is no way it would be able to be funded

Do you understand that part?

All the poor people without healthcare opt into it, but there is no way for them to pay for it

So, in order to pay for the healthcare all the poor people need, rich people have to also opt into the program

Still with me?

Rich people can already pay for all the healthcare they and the members of their family need, there is no incentive for them to pay more in taxes to provide the healthcare poor people and their families need. A law is required that says that if you're rich enough, you also need to pay a small premium so that poor families can have equal access to the same kind of quality healthcare they have access to

Thus providing quality healthcare to poor people who cannot afford it by no fault of their own, ensuring 30 million + more Americans have access to affordable healthcare, and ensuring 45K fewer Americans die every single year because they don't have access to adequate, affordable healthcare.

Ask that stupid question again, Idiot.
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So, you say that it doesn't matter if 100 million people don't want it, they have to give up the plan they like for Medicare because poor people.

Right. Bernie's healthcare plan is political suicide for the Democratic party. Bernie can't win and his plan is going nowhere. There are many ways to implement universal healthcare and Bernies plan is not one of them.

What are you going to do when Warren quite reasonably says she isn't behind that part of the plan?
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
So, you say that it doesn't matter if 100 million people don't want it, they have to give up the plan they like for Medicare because poor people.

Right. Bernie's healthcare plan is political suicide for the Democratic party. Bernie can't win and his plan is going nowhere. There are many ways to implement universal healthcare and Bernies plan is not one of them.

What are you going to do when Warren quite reasonably says she isn't behind that part of the plan?
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I don't know anything about Bernie's plan. I do know that a minimum of $12,700 every year goes into our health plan. That's per person/family. Our group would love a good health plan because then we could maybe roll that over into annuity or pension fund. But it would have to be a good plan because that's what we have now. It covers pre existing. Too many people don't have health care, I just think that's bs
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
85% of Democrats support it. 52% of Republicans support it.
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Cite the study. It's not hard to post a link.

Some studies do say what you claim but that level of support is not what people give they are told they would have to give up their private plan. Overall support drops to 37% when told that.

Ask me what support drops to when people are told it they might also experience longer wait times.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Moses Mobetta said:
I don't know anything about Bernie's plan. I do know that a minimum of $12,700 every year goes into our health plan. That's per person/family. Our group would love a good health plan because then we could maybe roll that over into annuity or pension fund. But it would have to be a good plan because that's what we have now. It covers pre existing. Too many people don't have health care, I just think that's bs
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How do you feel about being told you would have to give up your plan and accept whatever is offered under Medicare?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Cite the study. It's not hard to post a link.

Some studies do say what you claim but that level of support is not what people give they are told they would have to give up their private plan. Overall support drops to 37% when told that.

Ask me what support drops to when people are told it they might also experience longer wait times.
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Been over this, man..

If you lie to people, you can get the stat as low as you want. When you ask people if they support universal healthcare, 85% of Democrats support it

Caveats kill all legitimacy

I can ask you if you would like to fly, you'd say yes 10 out of 10 times. If I ask you if you want to fly, but it comes with AIDS, you wouldn't eat another chicken wing..

Fact is Universal healthcare costs less and accomplishes more around the planet. Your qualifying questions are designed to weaken the stat without any evidence to back them up. People aren't stupid, you are though, if you think anyone will buy into your bullshit...
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
How do you feel about being told you would have to give up your plan and accept whatever is offered under Medicare?
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That's the important question here. It would have to be as good as what we have already. I know I would like everyone to have a plan like ours. We have around 400,000 members in the US alone and so that's a lot to get to go along with a plan change. We definitely don't want less
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
says the person who can't read the bill and understand it.
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So show us the part where the bill eliminates supplemental insurance not already covered

Can you show us that part of the bill?

Or the part of the bill that takes any existing coverage away from anyone?

Can't?

I bet you can come up with another bullshit excuse for it, though. So let's hear it;
 
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