best nutrients to use in hydro

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by Bernie420, Mar 29, 2018.

  1.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    right on thanks for the help

    @ im4satori = So do you have a beef with me using megacrop through week 1-2 of flower and then switching to chem-gro.

    And is your concern with the megacrop is that because of the low iron or is it the nitrogen.

    is there a way to remove the calcium and magnesium from the megacrop (on paper) and tell me what that npk numbers would be.

    Idk its all comes down to mixing things up and getting it close and then reading the plant every plant is different even the same strain its different between each plant and how it should be fed, technically.

    Im going from H&G to dry. I know with the H&G what I do I'll be ok, but with the dry I have a feeling i'm ok but I dont want to screw up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  2.  
    Rahz

    Rahz Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    My understanding so far is that NH4+ lowers PH and competes with other cations. When making a custom nutrient mix is there any good reason to add NH4+ as opposed to using only nitrates?
     
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  3.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member


    Faster absorption
     
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  4.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    if you want to run the veg the first two weeks I don't see it being a deal breaker.... but the base bloom mix I offered isn't "low" in N and youd likely be fine switching to the bloom mix at the start

    too much N in bloom can delay the onset of bud formation

    no way to remove anything in that mix...its pre-set and isn't really worth the trouble of trying to alter it

    when you get you nutes right youll have small differences between strains but its should be marginal in most cases
    occasionally a strain might be N sensitive and sometimes a strain can be a magnesium hog depending but its not enough to fuck shit up
     
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  5.  
    Rahz

    Rahz Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    NH4+ is absorbed faster than NO3-? I thought NO3- was absorbed directly and NH4+ gets converted first.
     
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  6.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    ive not recently read this info so don't quote me or whatever

    from recall
    NH4 has its uses in soil and does have some effects on NO3 uptake but I don't recall enough details at the moment to speak on it intelligently

    but in hydro youd prefer to avoid ammonium nitrate all together

    having said that I wouldnt absolutely avoid a product if it had a very very small amount
     
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  7.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member


    if you want to run the veg the first two weeks I don't see it being a deal breaker.... but the base bloom mix I offered isn't "low" in N and youd likely be fine switching to the bloom mix at the start


    right on would pobably be best to get hem started on a different nute early

    too much N in bloom can delay the onset of bud formation

    Yeah I know and to much nitrogen delays rooting in clones

    no way to remove anything in that mix...its pre-set and isn't really worth the trouble of trying to alter it

    I was asking if it was possible on paper, like a math thing.

    when you get you nutes right youll have small differences between strains but its should be marginal in most cases
    occasionally a strain might be N sensitive and sometimes a strain can be a magnesium hog depending but its not enough to fuck shit up

    Its all about the roots and the size of the plant to me. Feed it then read it! Going from wet to dry I dont know the nuances like going from hydro to soil. Theres a learning curve there somewhere.
     
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  8.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    I dont have a clue dude I was just guessing. I searched nh4+ and seen Ammonium and then took a guess. I thought Ammonium nitrate was absorbed faster than regular nitrogen. which makes it hotter, which means you want to use less of it.
     
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  9.  
    southernguy99

    southernguy99 Active Member

    a bag of calcium nitrate is Ca(NO3)2. dissolved its Ca -calcium and no3 nitrate it should have an other percentage on the bag as well like 1% or something of ammonium thats NH4+, ammonium should never be more then 10% of your total nitrate unless your using co2 then you can push it to 20% NH4+ get absorbed the fastest, but is also toxic if you use to much. its great or N Deficiency for a quick hit of N
     
  10.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    sounds about right

    mine (yara) has 14.5 NO3 and 1.1% ammonium nitrate NH4

    personally Id try and use NH4 as little as possible
     
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  11.  
    Rahz

    Rahz Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    What about in a 50/50 coir/peat mix? Would there be an advantage in using more NH4? I'm wanting to try my hand at mixing my own, both hydro and soilless. Are there any tutorals or recipes on the net that are good or standard?
     
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  12.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    my guess says yes, but ive not experimented with it

    my memory tells me that N03 is a better choice, so if you do go that way id keep the NH4 on the lower end, maybe 5%, id not max it out personally

    in my organic soil ive used high N guano and it does create some very green lush large almost glowing neon green colors...
     
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  13.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    Well we decided to run the megacrop in veg and the chem-gro in flower.
    Going to switch to the chem-gro next water change.
    Is there going to be a problem doing that , switching nutes?

    Whats the deal with the low ppm's with the megacrop in flower. I've never used dry nutes before so I dont really know. Do you just not need to feed hotter? When I run H&G I stopped my ppm;s at about 1100 (2.2ec) and according to their feed chart I was way under and I always thought I was underfeeding them.
     
  14.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    For the OP, I read you were going to use humic acids. If your nutes have calcium nitrate in them, I wouldn't. They are not compatible in solution.
     
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  15.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    Why wouldnt they be compatible? Raw brand humic 0/0/4 I thought that calcium and phosphorous didnt play well. And that is if you didnt mix it right and get the lock up. The cloud.

    I only use it very sparingly at about 1ml per ten gallons its just extra trace minerals. Its so low of an amount its like I didnt add it at all. But a little bit is in there if the plant wants it.
     
  16.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    I was looking at a kelp/humic soluble mix and the instructions said that this product and cal nit were incompatible. i sent the company an email and the guy gave a long response that said it will precipitate out of solution. sodium nitrate was fine but not cal nit. i can paste his response if you'd like to see what he wrote.
     
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  17.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    Sure why not. At least tell me what the kelp/humic product is. Dont post any email info of yourself though. In my non-scientific mind the sodium nitrate sounds like a product I wouldnt want to use.
     
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  18.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your very thoughtful (and valuable) question…

    Humates (soluble humic acids) have a very strong affinity for calcium, and humates are indeed contained within the Nourish product!

    Hence, humates “grab” calcium and form insoluble calcium-humate complexes!

    Next, the insoluble calcium-humate complexes will fall out of your hydroponic solution (by the way, this will not take long at all, will be very rapid) and create a mess.

    The “mess” may look like a variety of things such as tar, a thin dark film, floating globules, etc.; all of these outcomes are possible individually, or together, and the severity of the “mess” will all be defined by variables such as how much humate and/or calcium was present, what chemical forms or concentrations were the humate and/or calcium in, and so on (many variables; but all with outcomes that won’t likely make you a happy camper)…

    When speaking to your question as to whether or not another product would be compatible, I would first need to know more specifically what “objectives” or “characteristics” you were hoping the Nourish could provide; then, maybe, I can possibly suggest something else that may help you achieve your goals.

    Please keep in mind that there is a possibility that your goals simply may not be compatible with your calcium nitrate, regardless of how we try to spin things…

    Finally, please make note that the “insoluble calcium-humate complex” that is formed when you mix these two wonderful ingredients together, while this complex unfortunately does not want to behave in liquid solutions, this complex is in fact a chelated (more readily available) form of calcium that is simultaneously far more stable (less likely to leach) due to its humic complexing. Therefore, if you can marry these 2 ingredients in a soil-based delivery system, then you’ll enjoy the benefits of the calcium-humate marriage; higher availability & more stability of both the calcium & the nitrate in the calcium nitrate you inquired about
     
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  19.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    And yeah, no way I'd use sodium nitrate instead either.
     
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  20.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

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