Bleach instead of H2o2

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
I am attacking the algae from 2 angles & have indeed covered the mat with foil in addition to adding the bleach.
Does anyone else think bleach will have no affects on algae?
How long should it take for the algae to disappear?
algae will not harm your plants, but it does look ugly i guess, and could possibly help to block pumps etc
is this bleach addition for cosmetic value, i am aware dwc growers like to show off their root systems for some strange reason ?
 

marcy

Well-Known Member
Sorry skunkd0c but I have to disagree.. Algae WILL harm your plants! I had a light leak in my dwc tank and got algae and the algae eats up your nutes and your plant don't get them, I no this from experience I got really bad nute lock out and had to clean tank,roots,air lines, air stones everything. Back on to the subject I have a really good grow book at home by a well none grower and it says in there you CAN use bleach and people have done for years but I'm the same as you lot I would much prefer to buy h2o2 just the fact of putting bleach in wouldn't make me sleep at night lol
 

glann

Well-Known Member
found some research into every aspect of a healthy res: benes, sterilization. http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/root-disease-prevention-in-hydroponics.html?start=3
Also found the active ingredient of Clear Rez to be chlorine




WARNING - DO NOT USE OXIDANTS WITH ORGANIC MEDIAS OR ORGANIC ADDITIVES: monochloramine, chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are not suitable for use where organic media (e.g. coco substrate) or organic additives are used. These products are oxidants and oxidants break down organic matter.


Monochloramine in Hydroponics


Inorganic chloramines such as monochloramine are formed when chlorine and ammonia are combined in water. One of the key uses for monochloramine is it is used for disinfecting mains water supplies.


Monochloramine is an oxidant. It kills bacteria by penetration of the cell wall and blockage of the metabolism. Monochloramine is considered to have moderate biocidal activity against bacteria.1 While there are more effective products available for eradicating bacteria (e.g. chlorine) these have been deemed unsuitable for use in treating mains water supplies due to the byproducts they form when interacting with organic matter.2 Monochloramine hydrolyses (breaks down) slowly in aqueous solutions, producing hypochlorite (at alkaline pH) or hypochlorous acid (at acid pH).3


Research into the use of monochloramine in other areas suggests that where bacteria are able to attach to surfaces this provides a primary means for bacteria to survive disinfection. Research of K. pneumoniae grown in a high-nutrient medium attached to glass microscope slides demonstrated a 150-fold increase in disinfection resistance.4


Similar findings have been demonstrated in nursery fertigation systems where organic debris or particles prevented direct contact of chlorine (not to be confused monochloramine) with fungal propagules (Phytophthora spp.) and as a result reduced chlorine efficiency.5


This may have implications in hydroponic systems where hosing, pipes, pots, drip emitters and, for that matter, media may offer pathogens protection.


Because monochloramine hydrolyzes (dissipates) slowly careful use is advised. I.e. monochloramine is an oxidant and overuse can result in build up, resulting in fine root hair burning, which will reduce nutrient uptake.


Use of Chlorine (not to be confused with monochloramine) in Hydroponics


A handy tip. Monochloramine sold through the hydro industry can be replaced by chlorine at greatly reduced cost.


Chlorine (Cl) is demonstrated to be a more effective sterilizing agent than monochloramine.1


Research has demonstrated that 0.5ppm (780 mV) of chlorine in greenhouse irrigation systems at pH 6.0 eliminated Phytophthora sp., Fusarium sp. and bacteria within 0.5 minutes of contact time.2 Chlorine efficiency is pH dependent and efficiency at pH 6.0 – 7.5 has been shown to be the ideal (maximum efficiency of chlorine is 6.5). Below pH 6.0 and toxic chlorine gas will be released. Because optimum pH in hydroponics is pH 5.8 – 6.0 this makes chlorine ideal as an effective and low cost sterilizing agent.


Products such as sodium hypochlorite (liquid typically 12.5% chlorine), calcium hypochlorite (bleaching powder/pool chlorine = approx 65% Cl), and chlorine dioxide are cheap sources of chlorine. Take for example calcium hypochlorite at 65% available chlorine. To achieve 0.5ppm chlorine in 100L of solution 0.08 grams would be required. This would mean that 250 grams of sodium hypochlorite would be good for 3125 treatments. The cost of 250grams of sodium hypochlorite is approximately £12.00 in the UK (in small volume purchased online – far cheaper in volume) or less than $20 USD. Now consider this; you would use only 14.6 grams a year to treat 100L every two days, so 17 years of chlorine treatment would cost less than $20.00 USD. When you consider that a 1L monochloramine product is sold through UK hydroponic stores for £30.00 - £34.99 ($49.00 -$57.00 USD) and is used at 0.2mL/L (50 treatments of 100L) the use of chlorine over monochloramine represents massive savings.


Chlorine - Potential Toxicity to Plants


Chlorine obviously has some potential toxicity (phytotoxicity) issues associated to plants, if used at excessive levels – as does monochloramine and hydrogen peroxide. Sensitive plants such as lettuce may be detrimentally affected if chlorine is present in solution at even 1ppm. Less sensitive plants will be tolerant to higher levels.

Research has demonstrated that 2ppm of chlorine at riser outlet, in fertigation systems poses little or no risk of toxicity to the majority of ornamental crops.3 This indicates that treatment with 0.5ppm of chlorine poses very little risk to even sensitive plants.


Treatment

Chlorine hydrolyzes (dissipates) more quickly than monochloramine and, therefore, treatment should take place every two days. Directly after treatment the chlorinated nutrient should be cycled through the growing system to ensure pipes, pots, channels and media are adequately sterilized.


Measuring Chlorine in Solution


ORP Meters

It’s important to note that simply adding oxidants such monochloramine, chlorine and hydrogen peroxide to solution and hoping for the best can only be described as entering the realms of hydro cowboy country. Numerous factors will influence the levels of oxidant (e.g. temp, pH, ionic strength, organic content, dissipation rates, and existing chlorine or monochloramine in the water supply).

The most efficient means of accurately monitoring oxidant levels is through the use of an ORP meter.

ORP is a measurement of ‘Oxidation Reduction Potential’ (mV) most commonly used to measure the effectiveness of water disinfection systems using sanitizers such as chlorine, bromine, ozone, peroxyacetic acid, hydrogen peroxide etc. ORP standards have been long established for water sanitation and are recommended over ppm measurements with traditional test kits. ORP meters are relatively inexpensive (a handheld pen meter should set you back approximately $100 -150 USD) and easy to operate and should be an essential piece of equipment for people using a chlorination system in hydroponics. Optimal ORP for Pythium control with chlorine = 780 mV at pH 6.0


Desired Chlorine in Solution: 0.5ppm – 780 mV

Optimum pH for chlorine treatment in hydroponics: 6.0 (below pH 6.0 will release chlorine gas – above pH 6.0 is less than optimal for nutrient uptake)

Treatment: every two days – if using an ORP meter maintain at 780 mV
does anyone use an ORP meter? I just got one and would like to discuss experiences.


also...kind of funny, but umm.... i stumbled upon this experiment some kid did. I know cannabis isnt grass, but check it lol.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1y95-0ZjOf2S4FBds8UDOp0rOW_KNFSlswkE5VqgLf2M/embed?hl=en&size=s#slide=id.p20
 

ringlead3r

Active Member
Algae will only effect plants if you have a decent amount of algae small amounts really doesnt do much.. I've never had a bunch of algae, but I've notice no difference from a batch with very little algae and a batch with no algae.
 

choempi

Well-Known Member
Algae will only effect plants if you have a decent amount of algae small amounts really doesnt do much.. I've never had a bunch of algae, but I've notice no difference from a batch with very little algae and a batch with no algae.
algae in hydro is not good, bleach works, it is only a very small amount 1ml gal or less. Better to get the setup right by eliminating any lingering fluid in the tub, I have no problems long time, but bleach does keep the hydro clean if u have a prob.

:leaf:
 

Gifted0ne

Member
Does anyone know why plants including cannabis outdoor fed with nothing but soil and 100% organic fertilizers are fed with this chlorine tap water (california area you can smell it in the water) and grow perfectly fine and healthy.. Specially looking at all the fruits and vegetables that are grown with tap, just curious where the nutrients are coming from since the beneficials are being wiped out according to ev 1 here.
 

karmeron

Active Member
Does anyone know why plants including cannabis outdoor fed with nothing but soil and 100% organic fertilizers are fed with this chlorine tap water (california area you can smell it in the water) and grow perfectly fine and healthy.. Specially looking at all the fruits and vegetables that are grown with tap, just curious where the nutrients are coming from since the beneficials are being wiped out according to ev 1 here.


The ppms of chlorine in drinking water is so low that it doesnt really affect benificals as much as youd think. If they were they would do the cells in our body harm also, considering a lot of people drink litres of it everyday.
 

Gifted0ne

Member
Ahh so as i suspected a bit of this info with regards to beneficials and organics incompatible to chlorine just isnt the case. So seems that acids and enzymes still activate nutrient availability in soil with chlorine, so i suppose chlorine should be pretty standard in aeroponics etc.
 

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know why plants including cannabis outdoor fed with nothing but soil and 100% organic fertilizers are fed with this chlorine tap water (california area you can smell it in the water) and grow perfectly fine and healthy.. Specially looking at all the fruits and vegetables that are grown with tap, just curious where the nutrients are coming from since the beneficials are being wiped out according to ev 1 here.
There is no everyone here. Tons of opinions here on RIU... I kinda sense some pissy flavor in your post. No? If so, apologies.
Kinda like, you're not asking a question. You're making a point.

I agree. I don't think it is enough to kill everything in your soil.
It's like in my aquaponic system... I top it off frequently so I never add so much tap water that the chlorine kills off my bacterias/bio filter.
You can take it super far and feel good sleeping at night or you can say fuck it and just do what is easy. Either way, cannabis is a very easy plant to grow. You'll get buds with a little effort.
 

Gifted0ne

Member
There is no everyone here. Tons of opinions here on RIU... I kinda sense some pissy flavor in your post. No? If so, apologies.
Kinda like, you're not asking a question. You're making a point.

I agree. I don't think it is enough to kill everything in your soil.
It's like in my aquaponic system... I top it off frequently so I never add so much tap water that the chlorine kills off my bacterias/bio filter.
You can take it super far and feel good sleeping at night or you can say fuck it and just do what is easy. Either way, cannabis is a very easy plant to grow. You'll get buds with a little effort.
No i just started using bleach for first time 2 days ago, ive been reading as much as i could and realized some pretty consistent misleading info.
 

needlesnpins

Well-Known Member
^^The deeper you dig the worse it gets...

I just put in 2/ml per gallon of clorox..i had 3ppms of free chlorine (according to test strip) for about 20 mins then it fell back down to .5 ...BUT Bromine levels stayed around 10ppm ... who knows anything about the relation of the two? i don't wanna fry them
 

Amas

Member
Some thoughts....

Chlorine is far more reactive than bromine

Chlorine was used up by reacting with pathogens i.e. bacteria and fungi

So I would say it is doing it's job.
 

Frosty125

Member
My 2 cents dont use bleach. Does it sound healthy since i assume you're going to be ingesting this stuff into your body.
 

Amas

Member
My 2 cents dont use bleach. Does it sound healthy since i assume you're going to be ingesting this stuff into your body.
Yes, bleach is healthy. The FDA recommends using it to disinfect drinking water in some situations.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm077029.htm said:
If bottled water is unavailable and boiling water is not possible, then drinking water can be made by adding 1/8 teaspoon (or 8 drops) of regular, unscented, liquid household bleach to 1 gallon water.
Also you have to realize that just because bleach is put into the reservoir, does not mean that the bleach molecule remains intact inside the plant.
In fact, bleach dissociates into Na+ and OCl- and only some of the hypochlorite ions are transported into the plant itself where they are eventually metabolized.
 

JohnnySocko

Active Member
Yes, bleach is healthy. The FDA recommends using it to disinfect drinking water in some situations.



Also you have to realize that just because bleach is put into the reservoir, does not mean that the bleach molecule remains intact inside the plant.
In fact, bleach dissociates into Na+ and OCl- and only some of the hypochlorite ions are transported into the plant itself where they are eventually metabolized.
revising an old thread but +rep anyway .... the amount of ignorance & misinformation from uninformed amateur alarmist is a bit much on these forums...

...although personally I know little to nothing about chemistry, I do know that anyone who uses H2O2 and/or chlorinated water with muny tap and then turns around and blasphemies bleach, are either ignorant or uniformed and obviously know less about chemistry than I do....:confused:

Organic very likely works (I don't practice it but the logic is sound)
Bennies work (obviously)
...and
the Sterile res/bleach/physan 2/et also works...none of the aforementioned chems are really all that systemic....


(I do agree we should watch what goes in our crops, but damn, enough already)
 

Rexdog

New Member
In an ebb and flow system the roots are highly oxygenated as they're basically hanging in the air most of the day during the ebb, thus the name aeroponics

In other systems where the roots remain submerged continuously, getting oxygen to the roots and preventing anaerobic conditions is a problem, especially if the water temperature exceeds 68 - 70 degrees. The amount of dissolved oxygen that water can hold decreases with increasing temperature. That is why chillers are sometimes employed in these closed systems to keep the water temperature down. In addition, hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is used as a disinfectant as it has a spare oxygen present and saturates the water with oxygen. It can be an expensive proposition at $18 per gallon. There are no by products as once it loses the spare oxygen it is then H2O or water.

In the ebb and flow systems dissolved oxygen and water temperature are not of great concern due to the presence of air during a majority of the daily cycles. That is why this method is gaining in popularity as it has fewer variables/problems. In 55 gallon reservoirs using a mineral fertilizer i.e. Kind Base, Kind Grow, Kind Boom, chlorine is the chemical of choice to control slime, algae, and other organisms. Household bleach contains 4 to 6% chlorine and is cheap and readily available. Adding 5ml of bleach to a 55 gallon reservoir will result in a chlorine residual of <0.5 ppm. 10ml added to the same reservoir will keep the residual below 1.0 ppm.

The best practice is to wait until the water is pumped back to the reservoirs where it will sit for several hours before gravity flowing back to the plant containers. This provides excellent contact time for the chlorine to do its job. It will generally, depending on the organic loading in the water, dissipate to zero before flowing back to the plants - an added safety measure. The buildup of salts or chlorinated compounds is negligible as the reservoirs are drained and refilled every 2 to 3 weeks.

Check the math you find on here I read where a 2% chlorine solution equals 200ppm. It equals 20,000ppm! ( 1,000,000ppm x .02 = 20,000) That dose will kill anything. Be careful!
 

Daithy

Active Member
How's the bleach going on for everyone? I hope it ain't gonna kill my plants. I have tried and put 0.8 ml per gal. Hope I won't regret it.
 
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