Brown spots and curling leaves

Hey All,

Currently vegging 1 photo Indica and 4 auto Sativa together. Having brown spots and curling leaves on the photo.

4x4 area (550 wall watt) led lights.
Temp ~75 average
Humidity ~65 average
Soil - FFHF
Water - Distilled w/ 1/2tsp epsom (all plants)

Thanks.

When taking into consideration the bright red stems and the blotching on your leaves, it looks like a phosphorus deficiency with maybe some calcium deficiency aswell.

To be sure I need a couple more details:
With distilled water it should be neutral at 7ph, roots intake phosphorus best at around 6.3.
Are you pHing your water?
Also how much/often do you water?
Have you transplanted recently?
All these questions and more play a factor.

Also post pics in natural lighting anytime you have a concern.

EliteCultivation said:

When taking into consideration the bright red stems and the blotching on your leaves, it looks like a phosphorus deficiency with maybe some calcium deficiency aswell.

To be sure I need a couple more details:
With distilled water it should be neutral at 7ph, roots intake phosphorus best at around 6.3.
Are you pHing your water?
Also how much/often do you water?
Have you transplanted recently?
All these questions and more play a factor.

Also post pics in natural lighting anytime you have a concern.

Click to expand...

I agree.

EliteCultivation said:

When taking into consideration the bright red stems and the blotching on your leaves, it looks like a phosphorus deficiency with maybe some calcium deficiency aswell.

Also post pics in natural lighting anytime you have a concern.

Click to expand...

Can phosphorus cause the taco? I havent experienced p def myself yet.

fragileassassin said:

Can phosphorus cause the taco? I havent experienced p def myself yet.

Click to expand...

It can, especially just prior to the leaves falling off.

Now I want tacos...... thanks for that

EliteCultivation said:

It can, especially just prior to the leaves falling off.

Now I want tacos...... thanks for that

Click to expand...

shit.. now I do too..

Turbonyg said:

Hey All,

Currently vegging 1 photo Indica and 4 auto Sativa together. Having brown spots and curling leaves on the photo.

4x4 area (550 wall watt) led lights.
Temp ~75 average
Humidity ~65 average
Soil - FFFF
Water - Distilled w/ 1/2tsp epsom (all plants)

Thanks.


View attachment 4480254 View attachment 4480255 View attachment 4480256

Click to expand...

You need a Ca supplement, Epsom is a Mg supplement.

EliteCultivation said:

To be sure I need a couple more details:
With distilled water it should be neutral at 7ph, roots intake phosphorus best at around 6.3.
Are you pHing your water?
Also how much/often do you water?
Have you transplanted recently?
All these questions and more play a factor.

Also post pics in natural lighting anytime you have a concern.

Click to expand...

They were transplant from solos into 3g pots on 2/4 so they have been in the 3gs 11 days.

First couple waters were distilled only, which I now know was 5.7ph. Posted about them Monday, (https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-help-with-diagnosis.1005884/#post-15311367), and it was mentioned to add 1/2tsp epsom to the water. I did that and watered twice this week Mon & Wed, the rest of the plants look fine with good growth, but this one is worse. Today I watered with 1:1 distilled epsom and tap water. Tap water is 7.3ph.

Watering about every other day ~20oz water per plant at the moment. I've been adding more as the plant grows.

How would you recommend taking the photos? There is no source of natural light in the room. I can try using a pole light with cfl, or camera flash.

Thanks.

curious2garden said:

You need a Ca supplement, Epsom is a Mg supplement.

Click to expand...

This. Totally missed that.
Youve given it distilled water that has no calcium or magnesium in it and only been supplementing magnesium.
I suppose that could mostly be severe cal deficiency. Ive seen articles that said young shoots turning purple or yellow is a possible symptom.

fragileassassin said:

This. Totally missed that.
Youve given it distilled water that has no calcium or magnesium in it and only been supplementing magnesium.
I suppose that could mostly be severe cal deficiency. Ive seen articles that said young shoots turning purple or yellow is a possible symptom.

Click to expand...

If you look at the spots they are rust colored which is the tell for me.

curious2garden said:

If you look at the spots they are rust colored which is the tell for me.

Click to expand...

These are also "rust" colored,
And most definitely phosphorus deficiency.
Calcium deficiency is likely to be present with a phosphorus deficiency as they interact with each other inside of the plant.

So they are calcium and phosphorous deficient?

What would be the easiest/quickest solution?

EliteCultivation said:

These are also "rust" colored,
And most definitely phosphorus deficiency.
Calcium deficiency is likely to be present with a phosphorus deficiency as they interact with each other inside of the plant.
View attachment 4480481

Click to expand...

Sorry but I disagree, that's an advanced Ca deficit. Anyway I wish him well on the fix.

Turbonyg said:

So they are calcium and phosphorous deficient?

What would be the easiest/quickest solution?

Click to expand...

Give them Ca (test your tap water's TDS), most city water is a blend of Ca and Mg.

Here are my kids (today)


A maturing Blueberry Hashplant yesterday.

I'm in partial hydro, coco and I use CaliMagic for Ca/Mg supplementation. I'm sure in soil they use something else. Best of luck.

curious2garden said:

Give then Ca (test your tap water's TDS), most city water is a blend of Ca and Mg.

Click to expand...

Tap TDS is 380.

Will switching to tap water fix it, or do I need to add an additional supplement. I couldn't find a water report listing the different mineral content.

This suddenly made me realize that even the tap water I have been using is run through a water softener, so even that will be missing the ca/mg and adding sodium in it's place. So I am going to have to see what I can tap into easily before the softener.

Can I just add some pulverized lawn lime to the water, and if so how much per gallon?

Is the 1/2tsp Epsom enough per gallon?

Thanks.

Turbonyg said:

Tap TDS is 380.

Will switching to tap water fix it, or do I need to add an additional supplement. I couldn't find a water report listing the different mineral content.

This suddenly made me realize that even the tap water I have been using is run through a water softener, so even that will be missing the ca/mg and adding sodium in it's place. So I am going to have to see what I can tap into easily before the softener.

Can I just add some pulverized lawn lime to the water, and if so how much per gallon?

Is the 1/2tsp Epsom enough per gallon?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Those are great questions. Picking up the Na switch for Ca/Mg is smart. I wouldn't have asked about a water softener. You have enough Mg. I see zero Mg def. It's Ca, which makes perfect sense if you are subbing Na in your base water and you have no additional source.

@Tangerine_ a quick Ca boost for soil?

As for me I'm in hydro for a reason. I just feed everyone General Hydroponics CaliMagic. I first started with their nutes in 1996 and I'm brand loyal when something works for me.

curious2garden said:

Those are great questions. Picking up the Na switch for Ca/Mg is smart. I wouldn't have asked about a water softener. You have enough Mg. I see zero Mg def. It's Ca, which makes perfect sense if you are subbing Na in your base water and you have no additional source.

@Tangerine_ a quick Ca boost for soil?

As for me I'm in hydro for a reason. I just feed everyone General Hydroponics CaliMagic. I first started with their nutes in 1996 and I'm brand loyal when something works for me.

Click to expand...

I think you're right. The excess sodium is causing some burn and lockout.

FFHF has a minimal nutrient charge. A good balanced base is the way to go. Slowly upping the ppms as the plants progress.

Adding individual elements can be tricky and invites lockout. But for growers that want that kind of control, these two products would do the trick.


I prefer to do things the easy way. Balanced base, minimal additives and/or supplements. And when I do have plants that need that extra mag boost, I foliar.

Tangerine_ said:

I think you're right. The excess sodium is causing some burn and lockout.

FFHF has a minimal nutrient charge. A good balanced base is the way to go. Slowly upping the ppms as the plants progress.

Adding individual elements can be tricky and invites lockout. But for growers that want that kind of control, these two products would do the trick.

Plant Amp™ - Cutting Edge Solutions

Hydroponics and organic nutrients manufactured in Santa Rosa, California

www.cuttingedgesolutions.com

Mag-Amped™ - Cutting Edge Solutions

Hydroponics and organic nutrients manufactured in Santa Rosa, California

www.cuttingedgesolutions.com

I prefer to do things the easy way. Balanced base, minimal additives and/or supplements. And when I do have plants that need that extra mag boost, I foliar.

Click to expand...

Thank you!

Tangerine_ said:

I think you're right. The excess sodium is causing some burn and lockout.

FFHF has a minimal nutrient charge. A good balanced base is the way to go. Slowly upping the ppms as the plants progress.

Adding individual elements can be tricky and invites lockout. But for growers that want that kind of control, these two products would do the trick.

I prefer to do things the easy way. Balanced base, minimal additives and/or supplements. And when I do have plants that need that extra mag boost, I foliar.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I was unaware FFHF had minimal nutrients. This is my first grow and went by what the hydro shop recommended, I guess that's why this was a .5cf bigger bag for same or slighty less cost. Should I have gone with Ocean Floor instead, or is there a better base soil? For the time being I plan to grow Auto's to get a few complete harvests and a bit of experience.

I, like you mentioned, prefer to do it the easiest way, which I thought I was doing.

Should I just use the FF liquid veg and bloom nutes while I have this soil?

Turbonyg said:

Thanks for the info. I was unaware FFHF had minimal nutrients. This is my first grow and went by what the hydro shop recommended, I guess that's why this was a .5cf bigger bag for same or slighty less cost. Should I have gone with Ocean Floor instead, or is there a better base soil? For the time being I plan to grow Auto's to get a few complete harvests and a bit of experience.

I, like you mentioned, prefer to do it the easiest way, which I thought I was doing.

Should I just use the FF liquid veg and bloom nutes while I have this soil?

Click to expand...

I think you'll be fine now. The water softener was a good catch and likely the issue. If you have a Walmart nearby you can buy 5gal jugs of RO water. This way, you know you're starting PPMs.
For nutrients - I'm not too fond of Fox Farm. The Grow Big is a decent enough base for veg but the Tiger Bloom is lacking IMO.
General Hydro has some good bases. The 3 part Flora is complete. The General Organics is good too but you'd need their Calmag supplement.

One thing I'd advise with supplements- stick to one line regardless of which base you decide to use. Mixing different elements from different lines can lead to an ion imbalance. Lots of growers can do it with success, but they're usually very familiar with the products.

For your medium - Roots Orginal is a good reliable mix. Its an amended coco and peat medium that has great drainage. I like it a lot but do wish was a little more affordable. I've never grown autos, but lots of growers who do, like Roots Original over FFOF.
Or, if you want to use up the FFHF, you could amend it with some Ocean Forest. FFOF is heavily amended and often to hot for seedlings but mixed with Happy Frog, it would probably do very well. You might need to add more perlite for better drainage.

One last thing - in the future if you suspect your plants are craving mag, foliar feed instead. It penetrates faster and you don't have to worry about drenching the rootzone with something that might throw things off.

That's all I can think of right now but I'm still on my first cup of coffee, lol.