Cal/Mag Deficiency Organic Soil

Harry Bonanza

Harry Bonanza

Well-Known Member
Ok thanks guys that’s what my initial thoughts were. I was about 10 days late on the up-pot due to contractors in the house. Would you say the LED sped this up? The others still under T5 only showed some minor spots and then moved on
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
TreeFarmerCharlie said:
I honestly don't understand why people say lime takes so long to act in soil. When I had a reef tank a common way to supplement low doses of calcium was to build a "kalkwasser" chamber which was nothing but a water filter filled with lime that the tank water slowly flowed through. When we needed much more calcium we moved up to calcium reactors which are chambers filled with crushed oyster shells (and other hard calcium deposits) which have water flow through them with CO2 injected to help make the calcium water soluble.
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true but nevertheless there are multi-seasonal products for outdoor fields like Apple Trees etc these are pellets and the way theyre made is so that its slow release over time
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
btw your "Kalkwasserfilter" is intriguing. I wonder if such a homemade device could be fashioned to enrich RO water to around 0.3 EC in Ca & Mg.
 
W

waktoo

Well-Known Member
TreeFarmerCharlie said:
I honestly don't understand why people say lime takes so long to act in soil. When I had a reef tank a common way to supplement low doses of calcium was to build a "kalkwasser" chamber which was nothing but a water filter filled with lime that the tank water slowly flowed through. When we needed much more calcium we moved up to calcium reactors which are chambers filled with crushed oyster shells (and other hard calcium deposits) which have water flow through them with CO2 injected to help make the calcium water soluble.
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It's all about acidity.

From the attached PDF...

"Liming materials vary in effectiveness. The carbonate in traditional aglime (calcium or magnesium carbonate) reacts with soil acidity to neutralize it. Liming materials have very limited movement into the soil without incorporation. Tillage increases effectiveness of all lime materials by mixing them into the rooting zone."

"Lime application method (placement) takes two forms. Lime is either applied and left on the soil surface or incorporated. In the absence of tillage, soil pH increases only in the top inch or 2 of soil since lime’s limited solubility means that the liming material must contact acidic soil before it will react and change soil pH."

Both calcium hydroxide (Kalkwasser chamber) and calcium carbonate have very low solubility in water. You switched to a calcium chamber when you needed more calcium in your fish tank. Why? Because the injected CO2 reacts with water to form carbonic acid, which increases the solubility of the calcium carbonate.
 

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TreeFarmerCharlie

TreeFarmerCharlie

Well-Known Member
waktoo said:
It's all about acidity.

"Liming materials vary in effectiveness. The carbonate in traditional aglime (calcium or magnesium carbonate) reacts with soil acidity to neutralize it. Liming materials have very limited movement into the soil without incorporation. Tillage increases effectiveness of all lime materials by mixing them into the rooting zone."

"Lime application method (placement) takes two forms. Lime is either applied and left on the soil surface or incorporated. In the absence of tillage, soil pH increases only in the top inch or 2 of soil since lime’s limited solubility means that the liming material must contact acidic soil before it will react and change soil pH."
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Yes, but wouldn't watering with lower pH water cause the lime to buffer the water while also making the lime it passes through dissolve?
 
Harry Bonanza

Harry Bonanza

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
btw your "Kalkwasserfilter" is intriguing. I wonder if such a homemade device could be fashioned to enrich RO water to around 0.3 EC in Ca & Mg.
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I was thinking the same thing which led me to think why can’t I just try to make a lime tea? I haven’t checked yet is this a thing?
 
Harry Bonanza

Harry Bonanza

Well-Known Member
I know the answer will be way beyond my knowledge of mineral etc but is a ton of fun learning. Wish my highschool had offered horticulture. I’m assuming the reef tank filters are adequate because they would require much less calcium so the slow release would work? I did read about the vinegar method with the egg shells but that repaired a lot of time. In the end it’s just another lesson learned. A happy accident lol. Always Up-pot on time!!!!!
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
Hows the RH and temps? Dont forget, your Cal uptake is not only dependent upon pH but transpiration. Are they drinking?
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Harry Bonanza said:
I looked at the Blue Lab a while back after seeing it used on a YouTube channel. Until then I didn’t trust any of the store bought pens but this ones seems to work and I do trust anything blue lab makes. It makes sense that microbes would need some help but do PH buffers not in turn kill a lot of microbes? I still have tons to learn and I enjoy it so info is welcome. I’ll get a couple leaf pics up here shortly
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Oyster shell flour or lime won't hurt microbes. It's the chemical pH up and down that can harm them.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
TreeFarmerCharlie said:
I honestly find it hard to believe they are as sensitive to pH up/down as some people make it seem. Microbes survive through some of the harshest conditions.
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This has been an ongoing thing for years .....us organic guys assume everything chemical is bad for the soil and that is simply not true. Since we dont have the equipment to test , we just have to assume the ph up an down is bad for the microbes. (i agree with this assumption)
Im with you , i dont think it will kill the whole soil just by giving her a lil up an down here an there but i also see absolutely no reason to EVER use ph up or down for soil.
 
TreeFarmerCharlie

TreeFarmerCharlie

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
This has been an ongoing thing for years .....us organic guys assume everything chemical is bad for the soil and that is simply not true. Since we dont have the equipment to test , we just have to assume the ph up an down is bad for the microbes. (i agree with this assumption)
Im with you , i dont think it will kill the whole soil just by giving her a lil up an down here an there but i also see absolutely no reason to EVER use ph up or down for soil.
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I'd be willing to bet it does kill some off but they probably repopulate pretty quickly. I agree there's no reason to use it, though, unless the soil pH somehow manages to get way out of whack. But, if it's that out of whack then you've got more issues than microbial life.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
i dont think "water soluble" and "available" are the same thing. Im pretty sure the microbes/soil still have to further break down the lime to make it available....i think.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
I agree and would be willing to bet the same. If the soil is healthy overall then the microbes would re populate very fast.
 
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