Can a light get too efficient

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Anchorage:
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Wasilla:
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Drum:
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We train until, like, -20. Weeks in the field and shit. And summers bring clouds of mosquitoes from the mekted 8 feet of snow. I’m pretty familiar with cold, too.
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
It’s cool, you don’t have to believe me, I suppose. By the way, Fort Drum, NY gets colder than Alaska. Alaska’s not necessarily the end-all, be-all of cold.
Nope but i hit minus 30 at least once a year

And i know what happens with moisture and single digit temps

Like i said im not trying to be rude i just have my doubts

Peace
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Ha ha come spend a winter up here where we have a nice 2 week stint of minus 30+

Thats before wind chill lol

Fairbanks was minus 40 recently thats ambient

Just sayin
 

Uncle Reefer

Well-Known Member
I dunno what other people like about the efficiency but if it's so damn efficient that means I could cut back on the total watts used to be the equivalent of the less efficient lights. So if it's 4 times as efficient I'd totally drop down to 250 watts while still getting the output of the old 1000. So I'm not sure how TOO efficient would be a problem. it means you get to save more on power and still get the same results..
My original point is if you have more light at the same watts then you will need a way to deal with the increased humidity, which dimishes your savings.
What the real values are I dont know. BUt more light is more weed which is good
 

gwheels

Well-Known Member
No
That is all. There is no too efficient light. There are grow conditions that lean you towards a light with more or less heat. I have the opposite problem. I love a light with low heat output. :D
 

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
No
That is all. There is no too efficient light. There are grow conditions that lean you towards a light with more or less heat. I have the opposite problem. I love a light with low heat output. :D
I’d like a light that’s like.. So efficient it creates energy instead of uses it. But, of course, this conflicts with the Law against perpetual motion machines.
 

gwheels

Well-Known Member
Well those lights wont grow cannabis. They make your christmas trees all bright and shiny though.

However the tech is changing rapidly in a good way (because of the tech gleaned from the testing you showed). Far greater than a china LED claiming efficiency when it is a lot of heat dispersment required. Quantum boards and cobs have really changed how we do things. Well how I do things. I am developing the best 4 x 4 and 3 x3 and 2 x 4 solutions for the upcoming changes. I see a new future selling what works and I find it is
315 CMH
COB
and I will get a quantum board setup after tax refund to try a 320 compared to my 315. Then I will have all options dialed in.
 

mahiluana

Well-Known Member
But the way IR is absorbed by, (and thus the degree to which it heats) biomass changes the variables greatly. The ability to cool more easily with less extraction due to the way the heat is radiated, combined with the ability to run the room warmer due to a much smaller temperature variance between ambient and canopy means that I actually use less real world energy to maintain my grow.
Yes Sir - biomass, GPW - is our main interest hanging around here on riu.
Driving an efficient 350w lamp over a closed sea of green or scrog can produce a lot of biomass
every day on a squaremeter - specially in days when a plant reaches the full size.

In one year you can have 3 grows with 9 plants / ~15h per day and a total cosume of 1900KWh of electricity. 27 plants - i would guess 3-6kg of dry roots, stems, leaves and ! buds ! or even more in an optimized and succesfull grow room.
I do it with 1500KWh as i use different, small lamp sizes to start seedling and vegging but still big amounts of light get lost to the wall, soil or even ceiling and get converted to heat.
To estimate the chemical energy stored in the biomass take1 kg of dry wood, that can reach up to 8 KWh calorific value ---> ~50KWh in biomass.

As a plant (like you and me) has a metabolism, it needs energy to maintain her life.
Like you she needs energy during her whole life: to sleep, to eat, hauling water from the basement, to shit, to breath and even to have sex. :roll:
Even if i suspect they maintain their metabolism much more efficient as we animals can do -
it`s hard to calculate, because part of their energy comes from the root in form of nutrients.

But then, if we estimate that from 1500KWh of electricity a led70%-hid80% is converted to heat we spend only ~ 375KWh in light of which a big part never reaches the plant and get converted to heat elsewhere. So 50KWh of calories is a significant part and @ the end all we have to care about, if we talk about efficiency.

I don`t want to show it again and again - (because some people may think i`m a neurotic
anti-catholic) -

but a waterfilled condom or a latex ballon is just perfect to measure the heat production of
your favorite led chips @ efficient low currents.S6002019.JPG

S6002027.JPG
that`s all you need + digital level to weigh the water inside the ballon.

luckily it is cheaper to heat the room than cool it.
uouppps - i see it the other way round.
i`m a watercooler for several reasons:
my lamp builds are made to harvest weed & heat
light heat cogeneration is 3 times more energy efficient as any aircooled led
due to the 75% of heat production of led chips.
It is possible to use the lamp as a radiator during the winter nights
and a watercooled heatmanagement is just ways smarter as an aircooled led, car, pv-panel, ...etc.

i need only10,- $ for aluminium square tube to mount a 300-1200W lamp system.
pumps & hoses 15,-$ and the most expensive part for my system was to buy a brandnew waterboiler 80L with integr. heatexchanger 180,-$.

My chips run @ Tj = 15-35°C and i prepare ~ 30000L of hot servicewater during the year with my 350W watercooled led lamp. Enough for the 2 persons in my apartment.
I normally pay ~300,-$ for the hot water bill at the end of the year.
Now i use them to pay big part of the extra electricity for my grow led light (~500,-$)

No need to discuss KW of heat vs KW of light - its all mine.

You all can keep on debate about efficiency of lamp builds, chips -
as long as you don`t get convinced to harvest the heat
- you are wandering around in the cellar.:fire:
 

Kkesu

Active Member
My original point is if you have more light at the same watts then you will need a way to deal with the increased humidity, which dimishes your savings.
What the real values are I dont know. BUt more light is more weed which is good
I think you're missing the point, my way to deal with that humidity is to drop the total watts, because if the light is producing so much light then you can just drop the total power used to the point where you don't have to deal with the humidity. Why the insistence on using the same amount a watts with a light that's more efficient seems silly to me, it's sticking to a number for no reason other than to be stubborn even when sticking to it causes you additional problems like humidity. Not trying to sound mean or anything, I just don't see the logic is sticking to the set number of watts rather than what your grow space can support and just cut the rest as a savings.
 

Uncle Reefer

Well-Known Member
I think you're missing the point, my way to deal with that humidity is to drop the total watts, because if the light is producing so much light then you can just drop the total power used to the point where you don't have to deal with the humidity. Why the insistence on using the same amount a watts with a light that's more efficient seems silly to me, it's sticking to a number for no reason other than to be stubborn even when sticking to it causes you additional problems like humidity. Not trying to sound mean or anything, I just don't see the logic is sticking to the set number of watts rather than what your grow space can support and just cut the rest as a savings.
I hear you but fewer watts produces less plant matter and also less heat. So you AC will be running even less and if we assume you led's are equally efficient and not even more efficient at a lower wattage you will be in the same circumstances, higher RH at a given temperature, this means the need of dehumidification
 

gwheels

Well-Known Member
i grew with a 315 cmh in a 4 x 4. I needed room for my shit (fans and reservoir and shit)
I got 12 oz of pure bud and 4 oz of larf that went in the MGB2
I am a newb and lost my train of thought there. Fucking WW
 

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
I hear you but fewer watts produces less plant matter and also less heat. So you AC will be running even less and if we assume you led's are equally efficient and not even more efficient at a lower wattage you will be in the same circumstances, higher RH at a given temperature, this means the need of dehumidification
True. But this assumes that rH is high without AC.. Where i am, I'm typically battling to keep my rH above 30%. So not having to run AC is huge for me.
 

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
relative means data has been normalized in this case to 1
In what case is it 1?
If you are referring to the plot that @Schalalala brought up, it's not normalized. It is relative to the photons absorbed. Of those photons absorbed what percentage actually were utilized by the plant. And that's why the plots are titled absoptance.
  1. Why did Mc Cree do the study?
  2. Why did McCree show relative yield?
  3. Why do we now use quantum rather than radiometric when measuring PAR?
Question 3 is the answer to 1 and 2.
 

Kkesu

Active Member
I hear you but fewer watts produces less plant matter and also less heat. So you AC will be running even less and if we assume you led's are equally efficient and not even more efficient at a lower wattage you will be in the same circumstances, higher RH at a given temperature, this means the need of dehumidification
Right but we're not talking about the current tech, we're talking about when it reaches TOO efficient so we're talking about when it reaches the point you can get the same plant matter produced for less watts being used. The way I read the post it sounds like the question is when we're at that point to where you can grow two or three times as much plant matter at the same watts being used before with the old(something like our current gen of lights) how you would deal with the extra humidity caused by that increase in efficiency. To which the easiest answer to me would be lower the overall watts and keep the grow the same with the better lights.
 

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
You don't even remember why you brought up photosynthesis or that you pretended spectrum plays any role in this? Or was that just so you could show off your vast knowledge on how to use Google and the copy and paste key combinations?

The "veterans" here still remember (from only a few months ago actually) how much of a hard time you had understanding that it's not just Chlorophyll in plants.
You know nothing about me or how I do things. That is very obvious to me.

The other thing is how you live in your own psychotic little world. Your world does not believe in the laws of physics (e.g. ISL) or science in general for that matter.

You do not even understand the enormity of your ignorance. It's your way or no way. So you have created your own world and how things work in YOUR WORLD.

When speaking of adsorbed photons just how in the fuck can you say something as ignorant as to imply other photosynthetic pigments could even remotely possibly be more relevant than chlorophylls a and b in green plants. In your cannabis, which pigments are responsible for photosynthesis?

Carotenoids are the other accessory pigments.The light absorbed by the carotenoids is transferred to chlorophyll for photosynthesis. But by far it's chlorophylls a and b in green plants. Carotenoids are orange pigments. Chlorophyll a is bluish green, while chlorophyll b is yellowish green. What color are cannabis chloroplasts/leaves in your world?

There is no other pigment in a cannabis leaf more relevant than chlorophylls a and b.

You are so ignorant you don't even realize how ignorant you are.

And STOP misquoting me, again! And I do NOT use Google!
 
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