Can a light get too efficient

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
It does not appear anyone on this topic has any knowledge of how chlorophyll or photosynthesis works.

We have @wietefras that laughs, says no, wrong, wow, but cannot name anything else that absorbs photons for photosynthesis.

This isn't even about McCree. No sign of any knowledge of photosynthesis just losers saying I am wrong. WTF???

Yeah I made a typo, that has been fixed. Changed passed to energy passed.
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
It does not appear anyone on this topic has any knowledge of how chlorophyll or photosynthesis works.
What does it mean, When you think you are the only one that gets it, despite plant physiology that has been around and understood for decades .... ????

Is it possible that maybe YOU should retreat and do a full study and R&D of your own and stop arguing in circles with people ?

The Mcree research, the cannabis research on IC, Bugbee all correlate to the same thing. Plants use the FULL PAR spectrum for photosynthesis as well as other biological functions. The Early NASA data shows the importance of the chl absorption peaks and later data substantiates the need for broad spectrum light through the PAR range. Cannabis is a very typical C3 plant per light absorption and photosynthesis. The only real variance I have seen are significant photomorphogenic responses to UVA and the actinic blues. Happens to be the biggest weakness of white phosphor lights that depend on Royal Blue diode drivers.
 

mahiluana

Well-Known Member
Doesnt seem to add up with real life


you see 300 w watercooled lamp 3x50w 1800K and 3x50w 5500K
water tank ~60L , 2 x 120mm/2,5w /42cfm fan --- and one of my ugliest socks i could find.

For the real airflow out i can`t tell a real number - but i used one of these 120mm fans in combination with a diy corbon filter and can only estimate, that the carbonfilter reduced the airflow to a max. of 15-20cfm.

So compared with 600w HID / 2700m³ airflow// my 300w LED / 400m³ airflow is only 33,75% of HID.

when i sealed the water tank with a board, the water temp rised up to 50°C in equilibrium
and the lamp and tank radiated more heat to the room.
- i had to rise the airflow a bit to keep 30°C in hot summer days. Logically the water loss in the tank was not significant.
With an open tank and a wet sock + fans i vaporized ~4-5L / 18h
and stayed ~28°C with a higher RH.

How fast water evaporates is thus dependent

from the temperature,
on the size of the surface of the liquid,
how quickly the evaporated fractions are dissipated. (with wind)

The energy to vaporize water is taken from the ambient.


And don`t forget that there are more "heaters" in your grow room. Not only your 600W HID.

Thermogenesis in plants

In plants, normal breathing, in which even under optimal conditions 60% of the energy is released in the form of heat, does not warm the respiratory organs, as the heat is released immediately to the environment due to the open structure of the plants. However, some plants are even able to heat certain organs by thermogenesis.

and then... there is a whole army with trillions of little soldiers living in the basement close to the roots - with their own little metabolism heating the ambient.
in case of wet straw and wrong storing conditions they are even able to inflame organic materials. :fire:
 
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wietefras

Well-Known Member
Yes there is. The problem is you appear to have no clue what chlorophyll does. So you are jsut being a dick. You are back on ignore. Such a waste.
Why do the McCree charts look so different from the Chlorophyl charts? Does that explain which of those charts is more applicable for a grower if they want to understand how efficiently the plant uses the light?
 

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
If you are going to drink a beverage what would you prefer two small servings maintained at desired temp untill dispensed into cup, or one large serving.
Given a good insulating cup, I'll take the large, mostly cause I dont want to get up for a second cup.
 

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
Hell I Will Take The Large 1 It Wont Have Time To Drop Below Desired Temp Belch Yummy And May I Have Another !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
Plants use the FULL PAR spectrum for photosynthesis as well as other biological functions.
I do not disagree with this. I am not debating full spectrum vs. blue red narrowband.
All I have been saying is chlorophyll is more efficient (i.e. absorbs more photons) in the blue and red spectrum. The optimal wavelength being 680nm.

I seem to be having a hard time getting anyone to believe that the primary light‐harvesting pigment in cannabis is chlorophyll. Sure there are some relatively inefficient minor role carotenoid pigments, but even they pass their photon energy to chlorophyll in an accessory role in photosynthsis.

The response here has been I am stupid for saying chlorophyll is the only pigment worth mentioning for light harvesting.

I have never said cannabis does not need green or yellow photons. The bigger question is how many G and Y photons does cannabis need.

I do not believe photosynthesis is the only use of light, but for purposes of photosynthesis chlorophyll is the only pigment worth mentioning.

The main reason white LEDs are popular is they are very inexpensive compared to color LED. That and the lack of published research on photomorphegentics of cannabis.

More important than photosynthesis pigments is light signalling photoreceptor proteins, such as the most well know photoreceptor protein, phytochrome.

I suspect the comments regarding "other" is a confusion on the difference between photosynthesis pigments and photoreceptor proteins.

I am not interested in signaling such as elongation or phytochrome flower initiation. That's very old news.

Far red gets a lot of attention but I believe also yellow and green photoreceptor proteins may be able to mediate THC levels as well.

There is a lot of recent research identifying the terpenoid and cannabinoid compounds like this one which I have attached:
Identification of Terpenoid Chemotypes Among High (-)-trans-delta 9-Tetrahydrocannabinol-Producing Cannabis sativaL. Cultivars

Other research on plants other than cannabis have found Yellow (Y), Green (G), and Far Red (Fr) when combined with photosynthetic spectrum of Blue (B) and Deep Red (R) can modulate the levels of terpenes/terpenoids, sesquiterpenoids, phenylpropanoids,and monoterpenoid volatiles. It was also found that BRY BRFr LED treatments produce these volatiles where the sun does not. It was also found BRG does too, but not as pronounced as the aforementioned.

I do not think there is much to be gained arguing photosynthesis using the 1960's McCree study. While it was a very relevant study that still stands on it's merits today, it used very crude techniques with substantial error rates when compared to today's capabilities. For purposes of photosynthesis and primary metabolite production blue and red are the only significant wavelengths. Green and yellow may be significant in the production of secondary metabolites but not significant for primary metabolites. This is my personal opinion and everyone else can consider it or not.

My next grow will use 3000K strips becasue they are inexpensive and have a good yellow band. While I do have many PC boards with 6 adjustable channels of spectra but they are not affordable to the hobby grower. I am struggling with whether to supplement with deep red.
 

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Schalalala

Active Member
The response here has been I am stupid for saying chlorophyll is the only pigment worth mentioning for light harvesting.
That
GrowLightResearch said:
Very little is absorbed between deep blue and deep red.[...] Very little green yellow orange is absorbed.
is the reason, mate.

My next grow will use 3000K strips becasue they are inexpensive and have a good yellow band.
Serioulsy, you are a fucking joke mate. Unbelievable. Straight to ignore, I can't take it anymore.
 

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
Serioulsy, you are a fucking joke mate. Unbelievable.
Seriously*
It's too difficult to take someone seriously when they cannot even spell seriously correctly.

Obviously @Schalalala is one of those that has no clue like @wietefras and @SSGrower
@PurpleBuz much better. Although the bar is very low.

While you guys can sling mud, you cannot offer to even name a single light absorbing pigments your minds have imagined.

The ignorance has been rampant.

This is simple stuff. Can any one of you name another pigment in cannabis besides chlorophyll or a carotenoid??
 

1212ham

Well-Known Member
Can any one of you name another pigment in cannabis besides chlorophyll or a carotenoid??
GrowLightResearch said:
Depends upon the type of watts. When an LED consumes electrical watts, the electrical watts are dissipated as radiant watts (light) and heat. The ratio between radiant watts and heat equates to efficacy (watts or lumens per electrical watt).
Can you name the different types of watts?
 

1212ham

Well-Known Member
What, no answer GLR?
25 minutes ago it only took you 3 minutes to jump in and respond to my post in another thread.
 
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GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
What, no answer GLR?
I was out buying some Fireball.

Watts: power, work, heat, energy.

Examples:
energy density (joule per cubic meter)
entropy (joule per kelvin)
heat capacity (joule per kelvin)
heat flux density, irradiance (watt per square meter)
molar entropy (joule per mole kelvin)
molar heat capacity (joule per mole kelvin)
power density (watt per square meter)
radiance(watt per square meter steradian)
radiant intensity (watt per steradian)
specific heat capacity (joule per kilogram kelvin)
specific energy (joule per kilogram)
thermal conductivity (watt per meter kelvin)
 
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1212ham

Well-Known Member
I was out buying some Fireball.

Watts: power, work, heat, energy.

Examples:
energy density (joule per cubic meter)
entropy (joule per kelvin)
heat capacity (joule per kelvin)
heat flux density, irradiance (watt per square meter)
molar entropy (joule per mole kelvin)
molar heat capacity (joule per mole kelvin)
power density (watt per square meter)
radiance(watt per square meter steradian)
radiant intensity (watt per steradian)
specific heat capacity (joule per kilogram kelvin)
specific energy (joule per kilogram)
thermal conductivity (watt per meter kelvin)
Those are all examples of units of measure, not types of watts.

Here are your "power watts"
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&ei=5j6GWrWgL8TGsQXmzr2IBw&q="work+watts"&oq="work+watts"&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0i7i30k1l4j0i30k1l3j0i8i30k1l3.147743.160109.0.162318.10.9.1.0.0.0.190.1117.0j9.9.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.10.1118...0j0i10k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.j2eQubWIN4Y
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Fuck wrong!!!
It's easy to say wrong. But that's BULLSHIT!!!!
Name the other or others!!!!

name another pigment in cannabis besides chlorophyll or a carotenoid??
this isn't a challenge test you are the one SPEWING garbage intermingled with copy and paste fragments.

if chl a and chl b are the only light absorbing pigments that feed light energy into photosynthesis then how in blazes does green light or UV light or far red light drive photosynthesis ?

repeat this question to yourself a dozen times until it sinks into your frigging brain.
 

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
then how in blazes does green light or UV light or far red light drive photosynthesis ?
How in blazes, how in blazes, how in blazes, how in blazes, how in blazes, how in blazes?
Obviously you have read nothing of what I posted. You can say I am wrong but cannot back it up! You are a dick!

PAR = 400-700 nm

Green light does.
UV does not.
UVA 315–400 nm
UVB 280–315 nm
UVC 100–280 nm

Far does not.
Fr 710 -850 nm

Read about photo receptor proteins, photomorphogenesis, and cannabis UV stress reactions.

UV and Far Red are NOT directly involved in photosynthesis.


name another pigment in cannabis besides chlorophyll or a carotenoid??
 
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