Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
there's no need for you to be aggressive or use foul language just because you cant understand scientific texts...
CAN FEMALE PLANTS PRODUCE SEEDS WITHOUT POLLENATiON?
- Thread starter brick20
- Start date
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
I'll leave it at that. This guy is just seeking trouble. The info is out there for all to see.
However, my invitation still stands. If MJ is too hot 4 u I could send u some concealed seeds if thats better....
However, my invitation still stands. If MJ is too hot 4 u I could send u some concealed seeds if thats better....
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
I used neither. Thicken up that skin.
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
this was the culprit in an early stage:
this was the grow:
and that one of the buds, unfinished due to seeds (I didplug them out before smoking, as you can see from the holes)
Have a nice day my friend. Im off to bed, its midnight.
PS: Dont violate the 8th commandment.
this was the grow:
and that one of the buds, unfinished due to seeds (I didplug them out before smoking, as you can see from the holes)
Have a nice day my friend. Im off to bed, its midnight.
PS: Dont violate the 8th commandment.
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
I give you that +1
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
@Kassiopeija
What you say about variety and time being a factor, seems to make sense to me. Especially considering just how long some sativas will flower for. This backs up their theory of environment and geographical location being a major factor.
A thought just occurred to me regarding immature seed, in plants with much a shorter flower period.
I've seen threads a few times here, where the grower was running a mother and clones. No hermaphrodism whatsoever, but tiny undeveloped seeds that smoke really unpleasantly.
I've had the same occur in other weed i've bought, which I naturally assumed was from hermaphrodism.
For the cases where the mother shows no expression and is a shorter flowering strain, apomixis seems a real possibility.
What you say about variety and time being a factor, seems to make sense to me. Especially considering just how long some sativas will flower for. This backs up their theory of environment and geographical location being a major factor.
A thought just occurred to me regarding immature seed, in plants with much a shorter flower period.
I've seen threads a few times here, where the grower was running a mother and clones. No hermaphrodism whatsoever, but tiny undeveloped seeds that smoke really unpleasantly.
I've had the same occur in other weed i've bought, which I naturally assumed was from hermaphrodism.
For the cases where the mother shows no expression and is a shorter flowering strain, apomixis seems a real possibility.
smokin away
Well-Known Member
You must respect RIU. It's a term called nanners. Little tiny banana sprout male pollen late in flower. If only one or two seeds develop in an otherwise female save them because they are fems. It only happens on certain varieties late in flower. It's the plant's last resort to propagate (it's only mission).
https://www.rollitup.org/t/useful-seeds.954942/post-15127047
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
It would seem apomixis does not involve male flower at all. Not even remotely. At least in the context of female plants exhibiting it.You must respect RIU. It's a term called nanners. Little tiny banana sprout male pollen late in flower. If only one or two seeds develop in an otherwise female save them because they are fems. It only happens on certain varieties late in flower. It's the plant's last resort to propagate (it's only mission).
https://www.rollitup.org/t/useful-seeds.954942/post-15127047
I've had bananas and it passed on hermi traits ime. I assumed this because I had the same seed for several years and the seed was bunk the next year. Had more hermies than I ever had afterward and I gave up on them.
Just wasn't worth it.
Was it caused by the hermaphrodite specifically? I can't rightly say, because the seed was a mix. Noob error and put all the seed together in one container. It was a big coincidence though, so lesson learned.
At the very least i'll always consider it an undesirable trait in plant selection. That's how I've felt for several years now.
I'll never deny some hermies are top smoko, that is undeniable imho.
Last edited:
Pulled out some pollen sacks man am thinking of taking this lady out as she is still producing buds and also sacks at this stage. See that in third pic that's a pollen which you could almost never see unless observing very carefully
And also that's a great grow man how many weeks they took for flowering???
Attachments
Last edited:
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
Yes my friend, but this is a difficult topic because of the possibility of "micro-seeds" in commercial weed (esp. Bedrocan). If you do a forum search on that term you'll see the topic pops up from time to time here and elsewhere.
At grower.ch we actually have a thread for this which collects data (microscopical and otherwise) about this problem, but as of now, the phenomenae remains unexplained, because we don't have the laboratory instruments to do genetic analysis of end-differentiated plant tissue (this would basically hold the highest evidence).
However these seeds are rather small (1mm) , appear black to the human eye, brown/darkbrown under a lightmicroscop and they taste harshly and bitter if smoked.
Real seeds - derived from sexual intervention or apomixis - start out as green megacells "ovulum", grow larger initially being white & soft, but later mature by hardening out sporting the typical colours with black spots.
I'm able to present seeds from this apoximis-MK strain in all variations but not before sunday evening or monday - my stash is burried underground outside, and I have to attend the annual EU summit on immigration & human rights at the arch-diocese Rottenburg/Stuttgart as my uncle is holding a speech in front of a delegation of the german "Bundestag" and the ministry of foreign affairs et al; housed just 100m away from the famous University of Hohenheim - which is the #1 university on agriculture in all of Europe (that's where I derive some of my sources from...)[/QUOTE]
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
Yes, these pollum is so small if a nanner opens it spills literarily hundreds of pollen outside - which is the reason why always a full tent will be pollenized if that happens.
No way only 2 plants out of 7 could have been hit in such a scenario:
^^this pic is from the second run using clones from the first run (which you see in the previous post). The Misty Kush - can you see the Indica plant in the middle back?
Why did I do a re-run with a potential hermie plant? As you can see from the first pic above that MistyKush grew *tricotyl* in veg (3 sets of fanleaves & sidebranches) but there's evidence out there suggesting this isn't genetically induced but from stress. So I took clones and the tricotylity wasn't "tranferred" - both clones grew normally, but still were full of seeds (both of them) with only a total of 5-6 nanners. (I checked daily).
Absolutely no seeds - microseeds or otherwise - have been found on any of the 9 Bahia plants (or the other 9 plants flowering at another tent adjacent to the right)
Harvest was 681g dry @ 58% (Boveda-secured) bucket rH for the first 4 plant run from seed (using only LST) and
854g dry @ 62% (also Boveda) bucket rH for the second 7 plant run from clone (using LST + topping)
both runs in BioBizz Allmix using the full BioBizz nute palette (missing Heaven) under 600W HPS Sylvania SHP-TS Grolux.
Actually the first MK seedplant also showed signs of other stresses/mutations on one sidebranch - which I did report to RIU here:
Lets talk mutants
I make factual statements and back them up - when your ready to discuss we will be here. New growers dont need to know anything as i give them the full rundown and dont sell them the idea they are going to create a new mutant strain and that what they are experiencing is fairly common and has...
www.rollitup.org
Floweringtime was 8 weeks on the first run, however, the Brazil-phenotype could've used more time, so I added 2 more weeks in the second attempt but still only a few trichs were amber. The other citrus-phenotype however did budout/ripe out sooner, so I had to cut it.
The brazil-sativa shared alot of morphological similarites like the Sheevalathi-landrace Avinash just posted in the second pic. What a wonderful plant you've got over there - you can be proud my friend!
one day I'll grow this one as well (if you allow), vegging in winter indoors, then setting out once summer approaches - to get some original aequatorial true Indian sativa monster plants
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
count the pots (4 vs 7)
first run: MK front left, BBH #citrus back right, rest BBH #brazil
second run: (MK is middle back and middle right)
This should prove without any doubt that I write the truth (as I perceive it)
Have a nice weekend my friends + happy growing
first run: MK front left, BBH #citrus back right, rest BBH #brazil
second run: (MK is middle back and middle right)
This should prove without any doubt that I write the truth (as I perceive it)
Have a nice weekend my friends + happy growing
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Decided to do some reading as you were either unable, or unwilling, to provide any sort of legitimate documentation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6454013/ Was a pretty short, concise paper. No mention of mj though
So after reading it, it seems you could simply grow out those beans and prove your point.
If you grow out a bunch, and they grow identical... You will wind up with a bunch of seeded unpollinated plants, that should again produce more plants with the same undesirable traits, all genetically identical. Basically should behave like clones, generation to generation.
Not sure of the point of this exercise. Should really kill such a thing quicker than a herm.
I do appreciate the offer to test out the beans, but i dont have room to grow something like that, to prove your theory for you.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Search apomictic cannabis... and Hemp
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
None of my quotes came from you sir....Look at my post again.could it be that this was directed at me; bc you seemed to have misquoted... ?
its not the effect of genes whatsoever but a chromosomal aberration.... are we even talking the same subject?
it depends, actually this "herming" as growers call it is kind of very natural and esp. in higher evolved plants occurs regularily. Its a strong mechanism for survival. It's seen often in landraces, just ask @Avinash
However, in large populations usually there's no need for this as they'll get pollenized early on.
When plants do herm, its not like their doing just bananas and pollenize themselves, they also can use Apomixis at the same time. Even before/after a nanner did come out. Growers who don't know about that and find seeds in their stash may come to false conclusion they've overlooked a nanner, when inreality there never was one, or not opened yet
only seeds can use Apomixis. With strains that are bred for fast flowering (2-3 months as compared to 4-6 months for pure landraces) there#s simply not enough time for a seed to develop healthily if it happens indoors. Most of them are just white ont he outside. But even if it would finish - no need to preserve the genetic of a plant that displays a behaviour which actually should've been selected out by breeders.
You're right it won't affect potency in such a way as trichome count, single trichome mass, etc pp... but buds will not swell anymore so fromt his point of view potency will not grow to its fullest potential.
Try also out the german wikipedia, it holds more info's/links on that particular subject than the english one. Google translator should do the trick. Its all well explained.
Agamospermie – Wikipedia
de.wikipedia.org
Good luck & happy learning
BTW, the early results of any apomictic shift in a cannabis strain (it would be strain limited) is generally expressed by poly issue's.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
No, no, don't take it personal now. The answer had nothing to do with that.
As a strain "shifts" to apomictic. The first results are generally poly...In any cannabis.
You aren't going to see this in old school landrace strains much, if at all. Unless chemically treated.
The wonder now is it happening more in hybrid strains. They are most likely to come to it first.
I do not feel it' happens in the way some are thinking. They think they found it and in reality....It's likely unseen nanners or balls...
Some suggestions that it maybe happening in light starved lower branching. There is a ref. to that in a botanical booklet based paper.
If you search that what I said above, in some variation. That booklet will come up. Have to sign up for the site and if you want downloads it costs, like papers. BUT< you can read it online for free.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Yup. A dangerous, difficult to get viable results, process.
The treatment it's self kills most of the treated plants or seed's.
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
Thanks mate, there really isn't any animosity from me at all, it's all good.
Thanks for your explanation, unseen nanners or balls is what I'd naturally assume as well.
Lol, i have a lot of reading and catching up to do. It's very interesting to me.
Have a good 1
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
U2Have a good 1
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
I've been smoking my own since 1970 and never had any seeded like you're sayin'
But who knows. There's lots of stray pollen floating around. Especially in places like Cali and Colorado in the fall. More likely an accident.
JD